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Thread: The Kirin Discussion Thread

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    Last Breath 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
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    The Kirin Discussion Thread

    Yo guys, it's about time we got a Kirin thread. Too many great posts about this wonderful technique has been wasted in the wrong threads, so it's time to get an official place to discuss this technique. Everything Kirin goes in here.

    Examples of topics to discuss:
    • Is Kirin a technique?
    • What does it's shape mean, did Sasuke pump chakra into it to manipulate it's shape?
    • Kirin's power scale compared to other techniques (Kirin centred, this is a Kirin thread after all)
    • Kirin's usefulness in a fight.

    There's a ton of other topics to discuss, just keep it related to Kirin. Most of all have fun and personally I hope we'll see this technique again soon. It's been too long since it's been shown.
    Last edited by 3c; May 28, 2010 at 02:17 PM.
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Kirin wasn't a jutsu, it was nature controlled by chakra. Sasuke required cloud, which he made with his katon. Then he had to direct it using raiton chakra, otherwise it would not have worked. It required little to no chakra. Sasuke basically used the power of nature, not his own power (apart from power to control the lightning) to summon kirin.
    To be fair, Sasuke is using some of his own chakra when he uses Kirin to manipulate it, Since clearly natural lightning does not actually take the shape of a kirin in nature.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Does nature even have chakra? This isn't a jutsu because nothing is done other than controlling lightning.

    Are you sure the "jutsu" isn't hailed as breakthrough because it's man harnessing the power of nature?
    It is a jutsu, a very powerful one.

    Kishi is an idoit because he made us believe that Sauske controlling lightning was something special. In some ways it is, in others it isn't.

    Perfect example. We have seen numerous ninja use the suiton and doton jutsu. We have also seen numerous ninja use pre-existing earth and water that they did not create to complete these jutsu. Just take Kisame and Kakashi's water dragon missle exchange in part 1. Both used the lake to the side of them as a source of water instead of creating it.

    Now Kirin is slightly different beacuse of how Sasuke actually made the lightning appear with all the fire, and because it's scale was larger than nearly any jutsu we had seen that wasn't the result of a Biju. Kriin is also the first instance where natural lightning is used, so Sasuke was probably the first to ever do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Suiton and doton jutsu are using chakra to manipulate nature or control it. What Sasuke did was guide a lightning using raiton.

    I think Sasuke controlling kirin the way he did is pretty special. Kirin's form looks sweet and it's pretty destructive.

    This is where he excels where Naruto fails: ability to manipulate chakra. Sasuke has more versatility than Naruto does. He can go short range and long range, midrange if he felt like it. Naruto would need to take a while to go long range and possibly midrange, he's better short range.
    How is what Sasuke did any different than what Kakashi does with water and earth? Kakashi uses chakra to guide water into attacks, or to guide earth into defenses. Sasuke had enough chakra left to not only guide the jutsu, but to shape it into a dragon.

    Kirin is a hell of an ahievement because of the sheer scale of the jutsu and how fast it works. It's impossible to dodge, and it has enough destructive power to blow a fortress into pieces.

    But, I really don't see how it's any different than what we have seen before. Perhaps it's simply harder to harness lightning that it is other elements?
    Last edited by 3c; May 28, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    How is what Sasuke did any different than what Kakashi does with water and earth? Kakashi uses chakra to guide water into attacks, or to guide earth into defenses. Sasuke had enough chakra left to not only guide the jutsu, but to shape it into a dragon.

    Kirin is a hell of an ahievement because of the sheer scale of the jutsu and how fast it works. It's impossible to dodge, and it has enough destructive power to blow a fortress into pieces.
    Correct. Kirin is a trancendent jutsu which goes beyond the limit of a person's own chakra level.

    After trying to argue unsuccessfully that Kirin is not new, now they are trying to argue that Kirin is new but not a jutsu. LOL.

    Clearly, Kirin is not a jutsu, it is in fact a loaf of bread.
    While we are at that, an electric car is not really a car too since a car must run on oil.
    Last edited by Ryr; May 20, 2010 at 02:07 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    How is what Sasuke did any different than what Kakashi does with water and earth? Kakashi uses chakra to guide water into attacks, or to guide earth into defenses. Sasuke had enough chakra left to not only guide the jutsu, but to shape it into a dragon.

    Kirin is a hell of an ahievement because of the sheer scale of the jutsu and how fast it works. It's impossible to dodge, and it has enough destructive power to blow a fortress into pieces.

    But, I really don't see how it's any different than what we have seen before. Perhaps it's simply harder to harness lightning that it is other elements?
    I'm not going to argue Kirin isn't a jutsu, cause I think it is BUT the difference between Kakashi's earth and water techniques and kirin is this.....

    For Earth and water techniques you infuse and element with your own chakra then turn it into an attack/defence. Kirin on the other hand just guides a lightning bolt to it's target. It's the equivalent of creating the upward line of charge that preceeds lightning strikes in nature. So it doesn't seem like Sasuke infuses the lightning with his chakra.... at least not the way it has been explained.

    Having said that, I still think Kirin is a jutsu.... I doubt we'll see it fired off much, if ever again though. Sasuke seems to have moved over to pretty much only using MS jutsu and with the addition of EMS I don't see him pulling out Kirin again. So I don't think we should get too hung up on it .

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Kirin isn't a technique that is "created". All sasuke did was used his own lightning manipulation to control the path of the lightning strike.
    For example, if i place metal rods to control where lightning strikes the sand, does that mean i am creating lightning?

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Kirin isn't a technique that is "created". All sasuke did was used his own lightning manipulation to control the path of the lightning strike.
    For example, if i place metal rods to control where lightning strikes the sand, does that mean i am creating lightning?
    That's not what the databook says. First, Sasuke you his own chakra to create the lightning,then took control of it with his chakra, shape the lightning, and use it at his command.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    ^ He used chakra to use techniques like the fire techniques to cause the heat which produces the clouds, hence the lightning. He didn't directly "create" teh lightning

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    ^ He used chakra to use techniques like the fire techniques to cause the heat which produces the clouds, hence the lightning. He didn't directly "create" teh lightning
    Without lightning it wouldn't be a jutsu, so everything Sasuke did was all part of CREATING Kirin. Fire,clouds, lightning,control, and shape.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    He didn't create the actual lightning. He just used it. If i use a kunai, does that mean i created it?

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    No he didn't create the lightning but what he did cause it to come fourth. It's not like pulling a kunai out of his pocket. What Sasuke did with Kirin was pure Genius.
    Last edited by Prince Sasuke; May 20, 2010 at 03:42 PM.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    He didn't create the actual lightning. He just used it. If i use a kunai, does that mean i created it?
    Sasuke manipulated the lightning into a kirin, Thus it's a technique. If you manipulated your chakra around a normal kunai, Then that is a technique.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DanielKnoT's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Sasuke manipulated the lightning into a kirin, Thus it's a technique. If you manipulated your chakra around a normal kunai, Then that is a technique.
    Thats right

    It is a jutsu created by Sasuke, Type S Offensive, Long Range according to the databook..

    Is not just a "simple" manipulation, because if it would be that simple Kakashi and any other character could do it.

    For example, is like the manipulation that Sasuke did with the Amaterasu using it as a Shield.. (Enton)
    Last edited by DanielKnoT; May 20, 2010 at 02:11 PM.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    He also could have already created kirin though, and just use his chakra to guide it. He did use a katon that looked like dragon.
    My point was that Sasuke isn't simply using a normal lightning bolt. He modified it's appearance in the shape of a kirin. The only difference from any of his other techniques is he's not using his own chakra to make the whole thing, Only to change part of it.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member GyoMasta's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It looks like Kakashi infuses his chakra with the earth and water to use it. What Sasuke did was use his chakra to guide the lightning.
    Not to mention, it shows how intelligent Sasuke is because of the way he created the environment to create kirin. I think this is one of the few moments where we see just how intelligent Sasuke is. Which is a shame because lately he's been shown as a reckless idiot, which he is anything but. He's shown to be a genius, but Kishi screwed him up lately.

    Possibly, or it's probably because it's new. Whereas doton and suiton use user's chakra, kirin just requires chakra as a way to guide it, not create it. Not to mention the way it was created.
    There shouldn't too much difference between controlling existing earth or water (Kakashi) and controlling existing lightning (Sasuke). Kakashi controls/guides the surrounding earth or water the way he wants using his chakra (earth/water infused with it), and Sasuke used the surrounding lightning the way he wanted by using this chakra to not only combine and guide the lightning but also to shape it into a Kirin>> he also infused chakra into the lightning when he took control of it (little chakra) which enable him to apply shape manipulation to electric energy.

    If Sasuke was just guide the lightning it would most likely looked like that:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/02-03/

    but all the other lightning bolts would be regrouped into the middle spike.

    But while infusing somme of his chakra for shape manipulation, Sasuke allows all the lightning to regroup/gather into one and to also give them the shape of a qilin/kirin:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/08/


    Just "guiding" wouldn't be enough to give natural lightning such an unnatural shape and maintaining it almost stationnary like that for few seconds. Wich proves that Kirin is indeed a jutsu and not "just" redirecting lightning.

    Naruto uses the greatest shape manipulation and adds some nature manipulation on it, whereas Sasuke uses the greatest nature manipulation (and even above some may say) and adds some shape manipulation on it, both are jutsu.


    I corrected the images link, let's hope it works now.
    Last edited by GyoMasta; June 17, 2010 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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