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Thread: Kishimoto and the Japanese/Chinese mythology

  1. #16
    The Green Knight MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Gats's Avatar
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    Re: Kishimato and the Japanese mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Yeah, it's true. I had forgotten that mythology.
    For those who doesn't know, here's a recap :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_spiritual_realms

    Six realms of desire

    All of Pain's realms were taken from the 6 realms of Desire of Buddhism.

    The six lower realms are Hell, Hunger (Ghost), Animal, Anger (Asuras), Humanity and Heaven (Devas).

    Hell (Hell Pain)
    Hunger (Ghost Pain)
    Animality (Animal Pain)
    Anger (Demon Pain)
    Humanity (Human Pain)
    Heaven (God Pain)

    There's also another theory regarding the 4 Nobles realms.
    Some might see some correlation between Naruto's life and those realms:

    Four higher (noble) realms

    The four higher worlds are characterized by the belief that humans need to make an effort to reveal themselves from within their lives.

    Learning

    Learning is a condition in which one seeks some skill, lasting truth or self-improvement through the teachings of others. To access this realm, the experiencer must first develop the desire to gain wisdom and insight into the true nature of all things, free from delusion. This realm is characterized by the seeking of truth and wisdom through external sources, e.g. other people and pre-recorded information (usually texts).

    Realization (or absorption)

    Realization is a state in which one discovers a partial truth through one's own observations, efforts and concentration. Usually to access this realm the experiencer must first have decided external sources are inferior to internal sources, eg his/her own mind. This realm is characterized by the seeking of truth and wisdom through direct internal perception.

    Bodhisattvahood

    Bodhisattvahood is a condition in which one not only aspires for personal enlightenment but also devotes oneself to relieving the sufferings of others through compassionate and truly altruistic actions, e.g. helping others. This realm is characterized by the feeling that happiness achieved through the benefit of others is superior to happiness achieved through the benefit of only the self.

    Buddhahood

    Buddhahood is the highest of the Ten Worlds, a condition of pure, indestructible happiness which is not dependent on one's circumstances. The experiencer is totally free from all delusion, suffering and anger. It is a condition of perfect and absolute freedom, characterized by boundless wisdom, courage, compassion and life force. This realm is difficult to describe and is generally only obtained through the direct internal perception of the realm of realization. This realm is characterized by not being shifted into lower realms due to external sources, and the non-reliance on external sources for happiness. This realm is manifested outwardly through the actions of the realm of bodhisattvahood.



    So, seeing how Naruto is now trying to save the world by himself, I think he's already at the Bodhisattvahood realm.

    I like this theory because it works well, but I wonder if Naruto will actually get to the Buddhahood...
    Nice one.
    I would add that the way Naruto's ninjutsu is very "Buddha"ish, like his Sage Mode : meditating without moving an inch to open his body and mind to another state of reality.

  2. #17
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kusachu's Avatar
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    Re: Kishimato and the Japanese mythology

    From The Element Encyclopedia of Secret Signs and Symbols:

    Tomoe:

    --Sometimes called "Fire Wheel"
    --means "circle" or "turning"
    --Shows two, three or four comma shapes making a spiral
    --Emblematic of flames

    --Belongs to Shinto and Buddhist faiths
    --Used in Samurai heraldry
    --Two flame tomoe looks like yin-yang and symbolizes the same concepts
    --Three flame tomoe represents Heaven, Earth, and Humankind, the three foundations of Shinto philosophy


    http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1660

    http://symboldictionary.net/?p=2786


    This sort of reminds me of Sasuke's Mangekyou Sharingan, but it might be stretching a little.

    http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1708
    Last edited by Kusachu; February 13, 2010 at 01:14 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  4. #18
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member kisame123's Avatar
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    Re: Kishimato and the Japanese mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by feisu-chan View Post
    the sasusaku thread where you might have read that theory was this... it was interesting indeed.

    Ninigi met Konohanasakuya-hime
    (symbol of flowers), the daughter of Yamatsumi (master of mountains), and they fell in love. Ninigi asked Yamatsumi for his daughter's hand. The father was delighted and offered both of his daughters, Iwanaga (symbol of rocks) and Sakuya (symbol of flowers). But Ninigi married only Sakuya and refused Iwanaga.

    "Iwanaga is blessed with eternity and Sakuya with prosperity", Yamatsumi said in regret, "by refusing Iwanaga, your life will be brief from now on". Because of this, Ninigi and his descendants became mortal.
    I took a look at that, it's actually pretty surprising. Sasuke has the Sword of Kusanagi, and the Yata's Mirror which was apparent in his battle with Danzou. what's even more surprising is that Sasuke's original drawing had a necklace with six jewels, very similar to the Yasakani no magatama or the necklace that Rikudou Sennin wore.

    okay, found it:
    http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/547/26
    NOTE:can you see the Yasakani no magatama necklace Sasuke is wearing? it's the same the thing that Rikudou Sennin wore here:


    Kishimoto originally intended to draw Sasuke with that necklace and ties, but thought it would be too difficult to draw that and left it out. will Sasuke obtain Rikudou Sennin's necklace, it's anybody's guess, but it isn't too farfetched considering that Pain made his own necklace and Sasuke is a descendant of Rikudou Sennin.

    here's some discussion that went on
    http://forums.narutofan.com/showthre...=277987&page=2

    it is quite fitting that Sasuke marries Sakura, it's the choice between Immortality and Prosperity. that probably means Sasuke will not get the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, instead he will revive his clan by marrying and will die like everybody else. getting the EMS is contradictory to Sasuke's goal of reviving the clan, imagine the progenitor living for centuries long after his great grandchildren x 10^10 have died,

    Quote Originally Posted by son_devil7 View Post
    Umm... Sasuke necklace is much more like namikaze minato necklace on chapter 94. http://mangahelpers.com/s/troy/readonline/31678/6
    not really, you're looking at the larger picture of Sasuke on the top, the full-body drawing has a necklace that has objects that look more like hooks, in other words, they're curved and slanted. besides, if you have read the other links I put up for you, you'll see that the Yasakani no magatama necklace is almost destined for him as he now has Kusanagai sword and Yata's Mirror. I wouldn't discount the probability of him having the original necklace that Rikudou wore and not a fake one like Pain's, Sasuke is an Uchiha after all and they've inherited a lot of things that were physically passed down by Rikudou. the Uchiha are obsessive about their lineage and history, they have the tablet, they will likely have the jewels, other Rikudou Sennin artifacts, collections of ancient items sitting around in their shrines.
    Last edited by kisame123; February 14, 2010 at 11:31 AM.

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    Re: Kishimato and the Japanese mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by kisame123 View Post


    http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/547/26
    NOTE:can you see the Yasakani no magatama necklace Sasuke is wearing? it's the same the thing that Rikudou Sennin wore
    Umm... Sasuke necklace is much more like namikaze minato necklace on chapter 94. http://mangahelpers.com/s/troy/readonline/31678/6

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    Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Well we all know it so hard to compose something unique,

    like George Lukas created his "Star wars" after he watched a lot of anime in Japan about samurais fighting with swords and using special powers.

    Kishi created manga from Japanese mythology. Unfortunately i am not so good at it that's why i would like to discuss it. I've read that there was a Hero who was summoning toads - that probably was a prototype of Jiraya. I am not sure was he a pervert or not.

    For example, i was writing small paper about Amaterasu. When in manga i've read that Itachi used a jutsu and called it "Tsukuyomi", i thought ok but then where is Amaterasu? And then later there was a Jutsu called Amaterasu, then Susanoo, then Izanagi and so on. What i am saying is that maybe there are some more interesting Gods - and it will gives us keys to the next possible Jutsus? For example Tsukuyomi is shown in something like moonlight (white and black colors), Amaterasu is shown as flames that can't be putted out, and the same can be said about Sun as a planet.

    Then there is a lot of symbolysm in manga, like if crystall crashes that means that Guren dies and so on. Maybe it all came from mythology?
    So lets discuss whatever you mentioned in manga that has something to do with mythology or religion or other sources. Probably Japanese users can write some legends or fairy tails they heard about Bijuus, Jutsus and many other things.

  9. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    I created a similar thread a few months ago, but it was deleted...

    I don't have time to put pictures and everything, but I'll make a quick list of the various mythology used by Kishi :

    1. Izanagi and his children
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izanagi

    - Susanoo
    - Tsukiyomi
    - Amaterasu

    Note that another mythology was introduced when Orochimaru changed into the "Yamata no Orochi" and that Susanoo was the one defeating it.

    Possible continuation : Introduction of Izanami (the mother).

    2. The Imperial regalia of Japan
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Regalia_of_Japan

    - Sword of Kusanagi
    - Yata Mirror Shield
    - Yakasani no magatama (necklage)

    Possible continuation : The necklace was not formerly introduced, but it is believed that this is the necklace that Rikudou Sennin was wearing :
    Spoiler show


    3. The tale of the Gallant Jiraiya
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiraiya

    - Jiraiya and the frogs
    - Tsunade and the slugs
    - Orochimaru and the snakes

    The story isn't quite the same, but the characters and their affinities with certains types of animal is from this tale.

    4. The Kyubbi
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune

    Note that not "All" of the Bijuu are taken from mythology!
    The thread about the "Japan tailed-beast" was fake, and thus no mythology exist about them, except the Kyubbi.


    Note : The Kyubbi is known as a trickster and as a "shapeshifter", usually transforming into young girl.
    - This might be the reason why Naruto learn sexy-no-jutsu so soon and is so good at henge jutsu.
    - This is most likely also the reason why Naruto thought that Kushina might be the real form of the Kyubbi.

    -------------------------

    That's all I have for now.
    Might come back later to add some information.
    Last edited by THM Nindo; June 15, 2010 at 09:44 AM.


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    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
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    Jiraiya's timeline : here
    Zetsu, the strongest villain of Akatsuki : here

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  11. #22
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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Oh it is very bad that they deleted your thread
    Just wanna add what i found out.
    Sarutahiko Okami - is a God with very very long nose. We've seen it so many times in manga, for example when they use Susanoo it appears, or there were a lot of statues in the temples.
    Here is how it looks in myths:

    And here is usefull information about him:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarutahiko_Okami
    and
    http://www.csuchico.edu/~gwilliams/t...o_Michi_8.html
    Last edited by Eprst; June 15, 2010 at 08:57 AM.

  12. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member DanielKnoT's Avatar
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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Other jutsus, like Kamui and Kirin are related to Japanese mythology.

    Also all the Bijuus, and the Yamato no Orochi, Kusanagi from Orochimaru, and Totsuka..

  13. #24
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielKnoT View Post
    Other jutsus, like Kamui and Kirin are related to Japanese mythology.

    Also all the Bijuus, and the Yamato no Orochi, Kusanagi from Orochimaru, and Totsuka..
    Not all of the bijuu...
    Only the Kyubbi.

    The rest was created by Kishimato.

    I know about the thread showing every bijuu "mythology", but it is fake!

    Just saying


    True love will conquer everything
    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
    ___________________

    Jiraiya's timeline : here
    Zetsu, the strongest villain of Akatsuki : here

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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Not all of the bijuu...
    Only the Kyubbi.

    The rest was created by Kishimato.

    I know about the thread showing every bijuu "mythology", but it is fake!

    Just saying
    My bad, I know about that story too.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Kisai's Avatar
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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Not all of the bijuu...
    Only the Kyubbi.

    The rest was created by Kishimato.

    I know about the thread showing every bijuu "mythology", but it is fake!

    Just saying
    I think the ichibi, nibi and hachibi also derive from japanese mythology.
    Ichibi= Tanuki
    Nibi= Nekomata
    Hachibi= Ushi-oni
    Last edited by Kisai; June 15, 2010 at 11:27 AM.

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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    Here is some information about Rinnegan:
    Samsara eye

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra

    What is interesting is that - this eye is about suffering (we all know about Pains past), and about the six realms(Pains six bodys). Thats what it says about Samsara in buddhism.

    Damn Kishi composed so many things not neccesarily from Japanese myths but also from many other topics.

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    Re: Connection of manga with Japanese mythology...

    I guess this thread is very interesting, I wonder why the original ones didn't remain...I posted in at least two other mythology related threads...

    Most of the elements were already told, but there is the character Sarutobi Sasuke in japanese lore, who was a talented ninja agile as a monkey, and very quick(reference to both characters Hiruzen and Sasuke)

    But more mythology-like are the six realms of reincarnation in Buddhist mythology, which can be applied to pein, but there is another element, a diagram-like presentation of these realms which is called the Wheel of Life(a.k.a Nagato himself)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Re: Kishimoto and the Japanese mythology

    Rinnegan (Samsara Eye)
    The Samsara is the endless cycle of reincarnation in Buddhism. The ultimate goal of Buddhism is to become enlightened and attain Nirvana, in order to break the cycle and escape the suffering of the world. There are six realms of suffering in the Samsara, into which one can be reincarnated when they die, depending on their Karma.



    In Naruto, Nagato's mastery of the Rinnegan allows him to control the Six Paths of Pain, each of which representing one of the six realms of suffering.


    Deva Path
    The Deva Path is named for the Deva Realm of the Samsara. It is the highest realm of suffering, occupied by the angelic, demi-god like Devas, and entails living in total bliss and comfort, and have powers such as flight. It is considered a path of suffering because the Devas live with such pleasure that they are unable to consider enlightenment, and thus expend all of their accumulated positive karma until they die, at which point they are reincarnted into a lower realm.



    In Naruto, the Deva Path is Yahiko's corpse, and acts as Nagato's avatar. It controls gravity and can fly.


    Asura Path
    The Asura Path is named for the Asura Realm of the Samsara. The Asura exist on the same physical plane as the Devas, and are powerful, demi-god like creatures (Asura is the root word for Aesir, the gods of Norse mythology). They are filled with aggression, jealousy, and anger; as a result, they war constantly and are unable to find enlightenment before death. Asura are frequently depicted in various mythologies as having six arms and three faces, with each face displaying a different emotion.



    In Naruto, the Asura Path is essentially a war machine, with six arms, three faces, and many weapons.


    Human Path
    The Human Path is named for the Human Realm of the Samsara, also called the Manusya Realm. This is the realm of suffering familiar to all humans; short lives filled with suffering. However, humans are somewhat unique in that they are able to gain information. Through study, meditation, and being taught by others, it is possible for humans to obtain enlightenment before death, making them more likely to escape the Samsara than other realms.

    In Naruto, the Human Path is able to read minds in order to gain information.


    Animal Path
    The Animal Path is named for the Animal Realm of the Samsara, also called the Tiryagyoni Realm. Animals exist on the same physical plane as humans, and are unintelligent beasts that rely upon instinct. Their lives are dangerous and brief, as they must rely on instinct and survival of the fittest, or are often forced into servitude.

    In Naruto, the Animal Path is able to summon a variety of creatures to use in battle.


    Preta Path
    The Preta Path is named for the Preta Realm of the Samsara. The Preta are ghoulish creatures filled with lust, greed, and gluttony, however they are unable to sate these feelings. As a result, they are always hungry for more, but are unable to eat.



    In Naruto, the Preta Path is used to consume ninjutsu and chakra.


    Naraka Path
    The Naraka Path is named for the Naraka Realm of the Samsara. Naraka are imp-like demons that exist in the same plane as the Preta, and are subserviant to Yama. As the lowest realm, it is a realm of torture and near-endless pain, where beings are tortured to death and revived until their negative karma runs out.



    In Naruto, the Naraka Path specializes in torture and interrogation, and uses Yama to judge them or revive other Paths of Pain.


    Yama
    Yama, known in Japanese as Enma, the King of Hell, is the god and judge of the dead, and rules over the Naraka. The Naraka torture the dead until their negative karma is spent, at which point they return to Yama so they can be judged again; if they still have negative karma, Yama will revive them to continue torture, and if they have expended their negative karma, they will be reborn into a higher realm. There is also a Japanese folktale told to children, which states that Enma will steal the tongues of liars.



    In Naruto, the Naraka Path uses Yama to interrogate and torture victims, to see if they are lying or not. If they lie, their tongues are removed and they are killed. The Naraka Path can also use it to revive other dead Paths of Pain, and Nagato later uses it to revive all of the recently killed.


    Outer Path
    In Buddhism, an Outer Path is considered a wrong, albeit altruistic, path that one seeks while trying to gain enlightenment. Those who practice these sorts of teachings, it is believed, will only have brief moments of peace, and will never truly escape the samsara and attain nirvana; thus they will be doomed to an endless cycle of suffering. To reach nirvana, one must instead follow the "Middle Path": the Noble Eightfold Path.

    The Buddha at one time followed an Outer Path, asceticism, which involves pushing ones body as close to death as possible. Ascetics expose their bodies to the elements, and eat almost nothing, causing them to look emaciated. The Buddha eventually realized this was wrong, and that in order to obtain enlightenment, one must keep their body healthy and train their mind, seeking enlightenment through meditation. Thus he developed the "Middle Path".



    In Naruto, Nagato himself is known the Outer Path, with the powers of all Six Paths of Pain and control over life and death. As such, he is an embodiment of the Samsara itself. He believes that he can teach enlightenment through suffering, however this will only bring brief periods of peace in an endless cycle of hatred and war.

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