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Teresa actually won over and over again against not just Priscilla, but also even a 4v1 of Priscilla, Irene/Ilena, Sophia, and Noel vs Teresa. And, her yoki was drastically less then Priscilla's every time, except the first time (where they both were using NO yoki).
Imagine if Teresa released her yoki to your 80%..... BLACKHOLE of OBLIVION! Her yoki aura alone would crush everything around it. hehe. Zaraki Kenpachi's (or Ichigo or Aizen) very big "sister", laughs.
the "real" reason why Teresa never goes over 10% yoki:
She'd destroy the entire world of Claymore from her yoki aura alone!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; February 10, 2010 at 01:07 AM.
as mush as i like priscilla.teresa would win.teresa could match an abyssal one by using 10% of her yoma power. 20% or more she could kill one with no problem. she used 10% of her yoma power against a half awakened 80% yoma power priscilla and won.so ya teresa would win
on what information do you base this on melvo? priscilla was pretty epic in the original clash againset teresa of the feint. that was when she was a total newbie. after turning abyssal one and like 10 years of experience killing noobs and eating guts. teresa would get owned. just like pris owned her in volume 4.
Lol, why do some people keep reposting points that have been repeated over a million times. They should at least read the previous posts. 10 years of experience of 'killing noobs and eating guts'. This analogy is analogus to saying that an professional sportsman could improve himself dramatically just by playing with newbs. Is that really the case? I don't think so.
The organisation has claimed that when priscilla has awoken, she is at her full potential, meaning that she will NOT get any stronger over years. Come to think about it, NON of the awakened beings got any stronger over the years, this probably will explain this. If not, riful easely and lucelia will be invincible after SO many years of experience. But as you can see, they did not. This sorta hint that once a claymore awaken, she cant get any stronger.
Not to mention what the outcome will be if teresa had not wasted her 10 years away as its obvious that teresa will be stronger. What if teresa wasted her 10 years away? Priscilla would not even be able to find her. Furthur more, the organisation has constantly be underestimating teresa by far, it is very likely that their estimation of teresa vs priscilla potential is wrong.
Pris pwned her in volume 4? omg, please read previous posts before making any comments, if you consider playing dirty tricks, exploiting other's compassion and sympathy by sneak attacking as owning someone by power, then im speechless.
liu_hao_chen hits upon a point which I use for a theory I have.
like liu said, no awakened (even the 3 AOs, Isley, Riful, and Luciela), has gotten stronger. Also, like liu said, if they had, they'd be even more powerful then Priscilla. Isley has been awakened for the longest at ~100 years, he should be like Teresa, a god, but he isn't. He got pwned by Priscilla whom hadn't even been awakened for even a year.
Not even Priscilla has seen to have gotten stronger. She was just playing around when she awakened with Ilena, Sophia, and Noel because they weren't even rank 1s. We then see her have the same ease against Rigardo and Isley, as she does against Alicia and Beth. Riful and Dauf don't count because they were nearly dead/powerless already. The only thing that we can claim/say about Priscilla improving is that she simply learned about herself as an awakened, she learned her new powers and abilities, compared to when she awakened and played with Ilena, Sophia, and Noel.
The Destroyer was described as getting more powerful by Riful, saying how each passing moment it was getting stronger. However, the Destroyer was literally/physically still growing/awakening, so that makes sense.
We have to wait and see if the Destroyer has stopped growing/getting more powerful. I personally think it has stopped, I mean if it really was still getting more powerful, Priscilla wouldn't be fooling around letting the Destroyer become more powerful then her.
anyways, my theory is that:
for whatever reason, the yoma mind of awakeneds, prevents them from improving and becoming more powerful. whereas, the human mind of Claymores or Half Awakens allows them to improve and become stronger. We see evidence with this in Miria and Clare over their numerous battles. We also see evidence in this through the 7 years of training with all 7 of the Ghosts, 4 Half Awakens and 3 Claymores.
This is thus what makes Half Awakens so special. They can keep improving and becoming more powerful while at the same time able to use their awakened powers and abilities. Claymores however are limited in using their awakened powers and abilities, because they can't resist awakening or they risk awakening.
So, this is would be Priscilla's weakness. Yes, Priscilla is a very very very powerful awakened, however, she is stuck at that power level, whereas, Clare (or Teresa if she was alive or Miata) isn't. With time, Clare, definately can/would surpass Priscilla.
The question is (which might be revealed in chapter 101), can Clare take on Priscilla now/currently or not? But first, she has to figure out this new complication with her awakening, hehe.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; February 20, 2010 at 01:15 PM.
Yup. I've been saying this for over two years already, here, here or more recently here. In the thread "how could Teresa stop the quicksword" I've provided links to some of my posts about Priscilla vs. Teresa and if anyone would want to argue that Teresa was stronger than Priscilla he should read this post first. The discussion is going for like 10 pages and ends about here. Every possibility is considered. You will also find there a link to a post where I've compiled some of the common mistakes people make when they interpret Priscilla's and Teresa's fight although these are not all arguments I came up with and to read all of them you would have to dig through many pages starting from this post.
If you read it you would have to agree that Teresa at 10% was stronger than 80% Priscilla and that there were no indications that awakened Priscilla would be stronger than Teresa at let's say 30%.
Some new arguments I came up with were for example that we've had explicit evidence how much stronger Teresa had become after she released her youki since she easily repelled Priscilla's attack. Comparison of Irene's attack and Priscilla's attack shows that. Moreover, it came to me that Teresa was twisting her head every time someone was attacking from behind, i.e. PYS didn't help her that much (and it was strange she wasted time on that). That's not all of course but you would have to dig through walls of text to see it.
Partial awakening had much more effect on Clare's power-up than experience. We know thanks to Deneve that after many partial awakenings claymore has youki always at maximum limit. So it's not strange ghosts are much stronger. If you wanted to make a point you should have brought up Yuma. However this can be easily explained too. Training for 7 years with stronger (that's crucial) opponents with various techniques allowed Yuma (who hasn't partially awakened AFAWK but still got stronger) to improve so much. She could gradually fight more powerful opponents without a risk of being killed (or even injured) and learn techniques of more experienced colleagues. I would like to see her doing that while in actual combat. If she tried to learn during the fight instead of surviving the attack and ending the fight as quickly as possible she would be dead in no time. On the other hand if she fought an opponent much weaker than her she wouldn't learn much as I've written over two years ago here and here.
Last edited by Goral; February 20, 2010 at 01:41 PM.
like i said it is only a theory of my own thus far.
partial awakening (being a Half Awaken) is mysterious as to what exactly it fully does or entails.
a list of what we know:
1. more powerful
Clare has become greatly more powerful after being a Half Awaken. We see pre-HA Clare struggle, using lots of yoki (as seen in her body strain/contortions) for merely killing 1 to 3 normal yomas, especially to do the fatal attack/blow to them (cutting them in half). After Clare becomes an HA she is able to easily handle up to 4 yomas with ease, and even radiates a hidden aura/yoki, which Miria (already a HA herself) trembles in fear as it is the most powerful aura/yoki she has ever felt. Clare finalizes the evidence of her increased power by saving the 3 of them (miria, deneve, and helen) from the male AB, and seen onward to chapter 100.
2. able to use 80% yoki without the awakening process taking them over.
Ophelia arc (Clare) and the Pieta battle (Deneve, and Helen and Miria and Clare). After the male AB battle, Deneve shows that she can use 80% yoki as she regenerates her fatal hole in her stomach, but she is shown in her awakening process (and resisting it). It takes until later when Clare and Deneve are shown to use 80% yoki without having to undergo and resist the awakening process.
3. able to use powers/abilities/techniques that require near 80% yoki more easily and at lower yoki levels.
Clare learns (quickly) a lot of yoki high end powers/abilities/techniques and are able to do them at lower yoki levels. Pre-HA Clare could barely heal the hole in her stomach at maybe 30-50% yoki release. Afterward, she was able to do re-attachment. She's able to do the Quick Sword and Windcutter without being around 80% yoki. She's able to do the Windcutter with no yoki release. She's able to awaken her legs and shoulders/arms without undergoing the awakening process.
Miria is able to use her Phantom Step more often and with less strain on herself. She learns the Mirage Step, and learns to use it with no yoki release. Pre-HA Miria probably could barely do her Phantom Step and only near 80% yoki release.
Deneve is able to near instantaneously and fully regenerate with much less yoki and strain on herself. She also seems to have learned to bulk up her muscles/strength a bit like Undine without too much yoki use or strain. Pre-HA Deneve struggled to regenerate just her arm or her hole in her stomach and had to use near 80% yoki.
Helen is able to extend her arm at lower yoki release and with less strain on her. She is also able to do the Drill Sword with less yoki release and strain on herself. Pre-HA Helen could probably only extend her arm a few times and at near 80% yoki release.
Jean is able to do her Drill Sword at lower yoki levels and with less strain on herself. Pre-HA Jean could probably only do the Drill Sword a few times with a lot of strain on herself and at near 80% yoki release.
4. Deneve states that it feels as if her yoki or yoma power is flowing at full force.
this is a bit "Cryptic", as we don't exactly know what she means.
Is Deneve saying that she is releasing 100% yoki and not undergoing the awakening process?
Or, is she saying that at whatever her yoki release, it feels as if it has the full power as if she was using 100% yoki release? And if so, does this mean that her 100% yoki release would be giving off even more power, or no?
Something else that is a bit mysterious is the Quick Sword.
The Quick Sword requires 100% yoki being directed/focused/concentrated into the sword arm causing a berserker attack.
Ilena/Irene presumably was able to use 100% yoki for her Quick Sword use. Does this mean her arm was awakened and hence her leather covering to hide it? Or, does this mean that Ilena/Irene was able to use 100% yoki into her arm and keep it from awakening, while using the Quick Sword at the same time?
Another question is whether Ilena/Irene was able to control/direct her Quick Sword or not? We know Ilena/Irene could use the Quick Sword with ease, without having to struggle with keeping it from undergoing the awakening process in the rest of her body. But, we don't know if Ilena/Irene could control it or if she could only use it in its normal berserker fashion?
Clare, on the other hand, initially could not use 100% yoki release in her Quick Sword arm, as she "kept approaching her limit", unlike Ilene/Irene when she used the Quick Sword.
However, Clare was able to master the Quick Sword in only a short time later during her fight with Awakened Ophelia (with Ophelia's help/encouragement at the cost/sacrifice of her own life). Though, we don't know if Clare's Quick Sword even in chapter 100 is more powerful then Ilena's/Irene's. Sadly, we never know how powerful Ilena's/Irene's Quick Sword actually was.
Clare however also learned to be able to control/direct the Quick Sword, thanks to Galatea and Jean. Unfortunately, we don't know if Ilena/Irene could control/direct it as well or not. Maybe Ilena/Irene couldn't, and could only use it as its normal berserker fashion, whereas Clare could control/direct it, not in its berserker fashion. We just don't know. It depends if the Quick Sword, merely requires strong mental focus (which Ilena/Irene did have, and thus she'd be able to control/direct it too), or if it requires the Faint Smile (which Ilena/Irene doesn't ahve, and thus wouldn't be able to control/direct the Quick Sword, like Clare could).
anyways, if the Quick Sword requires 100% yoki, then there's no yoki left to be used for or to do anything else. Or, is there some other explanation/understanding of the Quick Sword's 100% yoki use that I am not understanding here?
Lastly, Clare's awakening of her legs and arms/shoulders, seems to be very similar to the Quick Sword's requirments, except instead of using the yoki to do and control/direct the Quick Sword, it is used to awaken her body parts, and like the Quick Sword, the awakening process of the rest of the body has to be resisted.
5. possible immunity to becoming an awakened, as seen in chapter 100 with Clare's awakening complication.
if being a HA is indeed the cause of this, then we don't yet know if this means HAs can never awaken again and possibly never have access to those powers/abilities, or if the HAs have full access to their awakened form's/body's abilities, while in their Claymore/human form/body.
Goral, you might be forgetting this...
6. Riful states that by willfully/intentionally raising one's yoki (or awakening), they become more powerful, then they normally would be if the yoki is raised (or awakened) due to accident or out of control use (due to the pleasure/euphoria high of it, which the males and Helen fell "prey" to, well Helen somehow was able to "pull back" at the last moment, becoming an HA).
Witches Maw arc. this is where Riful makes this statement, and we see Clare indeed being quite powerful, superior to Galatea in fact (except in offensive cutting power/damage to Dauf, but Clare is physically stronger then Galatea as we see her stop and push/shove back Dauf's rod knocking him over, something Galatea never did even with her unique "Multiplier" yoki ability, being physically weaker then HA Clare).
This is my support/basis for my argument/theory, that not only are human-minded beings (Claymores and Half Awakens) able to improve and become more powerful, but in doing so, their awakening power level will be subsequently more powerful as well, since they are more powerful.
everything I stated above can been seen happening just from being HAs.
the 7 years training (the "Ghost Training", as I like to call it), allowed them to use some of their (new) high end abilities techniques at no yoki release. But everything else of the 4 HAs, is from being HAs, not from their "Ghost Training". The "Ghost Training" might have helped make them more powerful, but so did their being HAs as well. HA+"Ghost Training stacks together in terms of making them more powerful.
*Clare learned to do Flora's Windcutter at 0% yoki.
*Miria learned to do her new Mirage Step at 0% yoki.
*Cynthia could now enhance/aid in the healing/re-attaching/regeneration of others. Unclear if she could do this at 0% yoki or not.
*Tabatha now had her "Eye" powers as good as at least pre-7 years Galatea/Clare probably at 0% yoki.
*Yuma could now throw her sword like Chapter 2 Clare could at 0% yoki. (Clare in chapter 2 required yoki to do her sword throw).
*Helen could extend her arm at 0% yoki. (I'm not sure if her Drill Sword took yoki or not).
*Deneve could regenerate (non-extreme damage) at 0% yoki. (She also seems to have learned a bit of Undine's muscle bulking, at least to me, she looks a bit buffer/muscular, and she certainly has shown she is physically stronger).
as of right now, I don't wanna and don't have to believe that Clare has Teresa's power/yoki that she can/has been calling upon to help her.
I wanna think that all of Clare's power and improvement is hers (aside from Ilena's/Irene's arm at that initial time only), and not Teresa's.
the only thing remotely close is Clare imagining Teresa's "dancing" combat drills/movements/forms dreaming as Clare sleeps outside with her face in the mud as it rains through the rest of the night after she had sparred with Miria, before the 4 of them (Miria, Clare, Deneve, and Helen) will shortly battle the male AB. But, this is a far cry from evidence/proof or even suggestion that Teresa's power/yoki is inside Clare, for her to use.
This could simply be Clare merely remembering Teresa's fighting style/movements/forms/swordmanship as she watched memorizing as a human child.
yes, Clare's yoki has jumped from tiny to large to tiny, various times in the manga. But rather then thinking this is Teresa's power/yoki within Clare, I actually think it is merely Clare's yoki. A few characters' yoki haven't been open to being accurately read. Teresa's, Riful's, Rafaela's, Isley's, and Clare's. As can be seen, I simply think that Clare is good at hiding and surpressing her power and yoki. Clare's "weak/tiny" yoki is merely her small surface yoki which she failed to suppress. However, Clare has had a few lapses, revealing most of her yoki. Miria noticed it when she rushed to town with two unknown Claymores after cutting the yoma's head in half whom was after the girl running outside of town. Clare hadn't suppressed her yoki after killing the 4 yomas in town, and Miria felt it. Clare had to expose her yoki again against the male AB as she used her Faint Smile to dodge the male AB's attacks. So no, far from thinking this is Teresa's, I think it is Clare's. Clare herself is actually this powerful, but she rarely uses her power/yoki, and might have very well not known/realized just how powerful she really is.
Until the manga actually says/shows otherwise, I see no reason for thinking Teresa's power/yoki exists within Clare, helping her out and making her more powerful.
so we disagree on this.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; February 20, 2010 at 07:28 PM.
woah woah woah.clare may have teresas flesh and blood and awakened but she gettin her ass kicked so easily by priscilla.priscila doesnt even need her awaken powers
I couldn't botherd to read this thread so im sorry if im repeating what someone has said: it was claimed Priscila would once surpass Teresas Natural ability and from when Priscila was roaming after she defeated Teresa she probably became a lot stronger and surpassed Teresa. I think this is important to take into account because yes Teresa i belive could have without a doubt beat awakened Priscila at 50-80% even with taking into acount Priscila trashed everyone in a blink of an eye.
I think a fair comparison could be made from the top 2 Priscila fought and the top 4 Teresa fought because they were both probably using an equally low amount of their potentual. I think the top 2 awakened is a harder fight than top 4 semi awakened What do you guys think?
anyway, why do you assume that 80% and above Priscilla is stronger than 10% Teresa?
Page 19, please look at her eyes, they changed back to normal, so I think that the one 80% Priscilla killed is the 0% Teresa, am i wrong??? then you can only said that 80% Priscilla > 0% Teresa, right??
Please confirm my thought, I'm confused
while, i'm not the poster (super stater) you quoted, i originally was the one whom used these percentages and math, which it seems some other people have agreed with these "equations", and have used them for their/your arguements too.
it does appear that even in the manga Teresa had actually turned her eyes back from golden/yellow (10% yoki) to silver (1-9% yoki).
the anime is clear on this, as it is in color.
but recently, it came to my attention that you CAN tell as well in the manga. obviously not by color (as the manga isn't in color), but by the iris of the eyes.
10% yoki = golden/yellow eyes = ( ) shaped iris (cat-snake like shaped iris)
1-9 % yoki = silver eyes = O shaped iris
so.... it does seem that Teresa was back at 1-9% yoki (silver eyes) when 80% Priscilla beheaded Teresa.
I think it is good to still include the min 70% range and while Teresa is at 10% yoki:
80% Priscilla / 10% Teresa = 8 = Teresa is 8 times more powerful then Priscilla
70% Priscilla / 10% Teresa = 7 = Teresa is 7 times more powerful then Priscilla
Teresa is 7 or 8 times more powerful then Priscilla
however, if you want to just apply the 80% and Teresa being at 1-9%, then go ahead:
80% Priscilla / 1% Teresa = 80 = errr.... this is actually too extreme... for even Teresa.... lol .... ya 80 times more powerful then Priscilla.... um no... Teresa's godly, but 80 times is something far beyond godly... lol
so, it is better to do this....
9% -> 10%
80% Priscilla / 10% Teresa = 8 = Teresa is 8 times more powerful then Priscilla
the reason why we (I) say that 80% Priscilla > 1-10% or 1-9% Teresa
is because we see Teresa barely able to parry Priscilla's jumping sword slice, grimacing with effort.
10% Teresa PWNS 70-79% ("Orcish"-near Awakening) Priscilla, knocking Priscilla backwards through the air and on her bottom on the dirt ground.
Priscilla releases more yoki, hitting 80% or over it, but the Awakening process is delayed slightly. Priscilla uses this moment to jump up from sitting on the dirt ground and bring her sword down on Teresa. This is where/when we see Teresa barely able to parry Priscilla's attack, grimacing with effort.
Thus, I feel this means that Priscilla is probably a bit more powerful then Teresa, at these yoki amounts (10% Teresa and 80% or more Priscilla).
After this, is when the Awakening process "kicks in". Priscilla drops her sword, her muscles bulk up, ripping her clothes, and she starts crying and begging to be "killed as a human". The Awakening Process again halts in a delay.... (is Priscilla resisting it slightly?)
This is when Teresa lowers her yoki back to underneath 10% (causing her eyes to go back to silver from her golden/yellow eyes) to 1-9%, and lowers her "guard/caution/wariness", foolishly thinking that the fight is over....
This is then when we all know that Priscilla picks up her sword and cuts off Teresa's hands and then her head, killing her.
After the decapitation (death of Teresa), the Awakening Process "kicks in" again, this time in full to completion. Priscilla becomes the winged one horned demon Awakened. Kills Sophia and Noel, and nearly kills Irene. Then flies off north to feed, leaving only human Clare and unknown to both of them (Priscilla and Clare) Irene as still alive.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 11, 2010 at 04:03 AM.
it was never explained of how many awakened beings teresa slayed,but her power was to read yoma energy.so the more priscilla used the easier it became to defeat her,she just let here guard down and unfortunately she doesn't get another shot at the belt,lol.thats why we got our girl claire to handle it!
for that matter, it almost seemed like no Claymore (excluding Teresa) of Teresa's Era had ever seen/encountered/fought/killed an Awakened Being. Look at even Irene's comment towards Priscilla's Awakening, ~"Nothing like a Claymore, nor like a normal yoma. Kasetsu! (forgive my attempt at spelling/hearing japanese, lol)". To me, this almost seems or does seem like Irene was seeing an Awakened for her very first time when Priscilla Awakened after killing Teresa!
Teresa has certainly encountered Awakeneds before. Otherwise, you'd think she'd be afraid or stunned/shocked with Awakened Rosemary, like Irene (and Sophia, and Noel) seemed to be with Awakened Priscilla.
As to whether other Claymores (such as Irene, Sophia, Noel, Elda, and all the others) had ever encountered Awakeneds or not is unknown.
It could very well have been the policy of completely avoiding Awakeneds and making sure to kill Claymores before they Awaken, during this time, Teresa's Era, and probably before it as well. I say this because the Organization still kept it censored (hidden) from the Claymore's of Clare's Era that the "voracious eaters" were actually Awakeneds as well. Also, Teresa's Era was completely censored (hidden) from Clare's Era. Only a few Claymores (Clare, Irene, Miria, Alicia, Beth, Rafaela, and maybe Galatea) knew about Teresa's Era.
teresa's era had riful,isley and rafaela's sister.so they knew about awakens yeah i agree,my statement is teresa would have cut the bi#$%'s head off if she knew she had lost total control.she had gotten soft tending to claire,so she felt pity only because priscilla was so young even though she knew priscilla could surpass her in skill.
Priscilla already surpassed Theresa in strength, agility & speed..
Even Theresa is slower than any of those #2/3/4/5. what make her the strongest among them because of ability to sense Yoma Aura is beyond than any Claymore group.
Other claymore couldn't even sense Priscila Yoki when she killed all those mobs in the alley.
Theresa can read the Strength and Speed of Yoma energy flowing through the body. Theresa can sense the opponent action before they even move.
That why Priscilla was the only person who was able to close to match Theresa because she completely fully supressed her Yoma energy.
But Too bad Priscilla would not be able to win at all because of awakening.
This is when Theresa like when using her ability to read the flow of Yoma energy
No one knew how much Theresa Yoma energy is, because when Priscilla is awakening at 80% http://www.mangareader.net/485-29334...hapter-23.html
Yet What make theresa still have upper hand. Using 10% of Yoma energy is enough to change eye color..
10% alone overpowered 80% awakening Priscila.
See when those 3 top claymore join and release their Yomi, Theresa just wtf pwned them with ease using her ability.
Theresa died because of the plot of the author.
Just think if Theresa actually uses full extent of her Yoma energy and uses ability to sense every flow of Yoma energy? How can they stop it... Its even beyond than Sharingan level LOL
You guys rely too much on POWER/STRENGTH/SPEED. But none of you ever been in battle field. In war/battle if the opponent know your next move/action, Basically You loose.
See look at Claire trying to use Theresa ability.
She's not even faster than male awakening. Yet she can dodge it by just reading the yoma energy.
See the reading flow of Yoma energy to know the opponent move required to supressed their own Yoma energy.
Claire hasnt even mastered it yet :P unlike Theresa she can use her ability while she's release of her Yoma energy. just how cool is dat :P
Last edited by Lemonadez; June 04, 2010 at 02:57 AM.