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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
You misunderstand my intent and meaning. I don't disagree with the outcome of "Marked for Death." It forms the foundation of the Manga and that of Clare's purpose in life. When you say that Priscilla "pawns" Teresa, it implies that Priscilla defeats Teresa with great ease.
That simply is not the case. If you intended a different meaning, would you please elaborate.
1. Teresa cuts Priscilla.
2. Irene saves Priscilla's head.
3. Teresa shows mercy to Priscilla and does not behead her.
4. Priscilla lies to Teresa to get Teresa to lower her guard.
The entire Marked for Death chapter is replete with examples of Teresa dominating Priscilla and always showing mercy to her younger foe. It's true that Priscilla could have surpassed Teresa. Our tragic heroine admitted as much. However, at the time of the conflict Teresa was superior to Priscilla.
Last edited by wickedsmile; July 17, 2011 at 12:21 AM.
However Teresa did get Punked by Priscilla, getting punked is not the same as getting pwned.
(ex: A 250 pound black belt wants to fight me (120lbs with no martial art skills) in the parking lot in exactly an hour would pwn me in a 1 vs 1 fight 100% of the time. So knowing that the guy can kick my ass, I hid a taser in my coat pocket. When I see the dude in the parking lot at the given time, I shot him in the face with the taser gun right away, even before he gets near enough to throw a punch. I then kick him till he passed out while he's down and twiching from the taser. So I punked his ass for bing stupid and believing I would come to fight fair.)
Last edited by Khorr; July 16, 2011 at 09:33 AM.
the "kill argument" is laughable.
Awakening Priscilla could have (possibly) been killed by child-teen Raki while she slept, does this mean that teen-child Raki is superior to Awakened Priscilla? HELL NO. see how meaningless and pathetic/pitiful the "kill argument" is ?? In debate, this an embarrassing fallacy mistake to make.
how about another example:
me vs an UFC fighter
if the UFC fighter lets me, even I could knock him out and win the fight.
does this mean that I'm superior to him as a MMA fighter? HELL NO.
if he wanted to, he could have literally killed me, just as Teresa could have and did have (though chose not to) killed Priscilla numerous times.
The UFC fighter is superior to me, just as Teresa is superior to Priscilla.
Addditional closing that I forgot to make:
it's not who kills who, but who can defeat/best/pwn who, Priscilla failed over and over to defeat/best/pwn Teresa, as Teresa was superior to Priscilla. Yes, Priscilla did kill Teresa, but she never once defeated/bested/pwned Teresa, her kill of Teresa is meaningless for who is the superior, more powerful one.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 17, 2011 at 04:43 PM.
priscilla may be powerful, but she would not have been able to so easily beat the merged awakened. i think that it was every bit as powerful as she was, however it was mindless, focusless, so it did occasional offensive bursts and let its yoki fill the area up. not ot mention that it continuously drained energy from everything it touched. and did oyu see what it was able to do when clare, in a badass yet still unanswered moment, took control of the mass and captured priscilla? it has completely restrained her.
prsicilla's main power, it seems, is her mass of yoki. the rason why she defeats enemies so easily is because she focuses her energy in massive bursts at her targets. however, if oyu listen closely to her words, it has a toll on her. she was constantly hungry, constantly, so much that she thoguht about eating other awakened, though flesh with yoki is repulsive to them. if she was denied sustenance for long enough, and kept on using her energy, she would be burnt out. the problem is that you would need an opponent with enough power and speed to drag out the battle. beore she knew it pricilla wouldn't be able to heal nor attack as opwerfully and quickly.
I seriously don't understand why people have this arguement, we all watched and/or read the fight. Teresa wins this too easily. How did this start, Rubel says priscilla surpasses teresa but he never actually watched teresa fight just the usual rumours in the organization. Teresa made absolutely sure the organization never new of her strength, the same for her fellow claymores, she'd never released 10% in front of anyone before. When the organization list its strongest no 1s teresa was mentioned, but not even as the strongest, this shows that the organization didn't know her power. Before the fight Irene says Priscilla will surpass Teresa, that her latent ability his higher and stuff. First how do claymore's fight, they have certain speeds and strength at base level, when the release their yoma energy, they tap into the yoma in them to become stronger, so its like a kind of boost. 10% eye colour change, 30% face begins to distort, 50+% body begins to distort 70% mind begins to corrode, 80+% Awakening starts 100 % awakening completes = full power. At 100% they recieve the maximum boost from the yoma energy. Teresa had the ability to read every flow of yoki, hence the precog, she then had trouble with priscilla because priscilla could surpress her yoki, but she still won easily because her base form was stronger, faster and more skilled and experienced, this showed when teresa took a notch up and priscilla seemed to think she was getting slower but in reality, teresa was getting faster, still at base form. If priscilla had become a better warrior, she would have gained more experience and skill but will still be lower in strength and speed to teresa at base form. Priscilla then releases 10% of her yoki, this was enough to make teresa take notice, with this she still get owned with teresa at base form, meaning teresa base form > 10% boosted Priscilla in Speed and Power, priscilla breaks down, goes nuts and attacks teresa, at 30%, at this point Precog fails, Teresa notes that there is too much Yoma energy coming from prisiclla that she can't read it, so she proceeds to fight normally, Priscilla seems to be getting overwhelmed as evidenced by her constantly increasing her yoma energy, when she gets to 70-79%, base teresa begins to have trouble keeping up with her power, as though she is still able to maintain same speed but the body distortion advantage begins to play in (longer reach and stuff), and she seems to have trouble with the power. We can conclude that base Teresa = 70-79% Priscilla in Speed, Base Teresa is < 70-79% in Power. Teresa notices that she has to power up to remain alive, She releases 10% of her power, and the fight continues, still no Precog mind you. At this point Noel, Irene and Sophia arrive. Irene and Sophie exclaim that what is happening is unreal, that the 2 of them are monsters. (I'm combining things from anime and manga, as they see, to give u a clearer picture). Irene exclaims that One of the Yoma energy is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater than the other. Meaning either 10% Teresa is >>>>> than 70-79% Priscilla, or 70-79% Priscilla is >>>>>> than 10% Teresa, then they get within viewing range and see priscilla's level of degradation, Noel/Sophia exclaims is that Priscilla, Don't tell me she has...... Irene confirms that she hasn't awakened yet that if they can stop her then she could be reverted, then he stated that who in the world can stop her, indicating she suspected that Priscilla was the greater power (Notice that even though she was that close she couldn't tell who the greater power was because there was so much yoma energy that even teresa an expert at yomi reading can't read the extent. So her thinking priscilla is the greater power will have to do with her earlier statement that priscilla had the higher latent ability.) . At precisely the moment irene ponders who can beat her, she gets cut by teresa on one arm, in the midst of high speed slashes, Priscilla is blitzed by teresa rather easily, this happens about 2-3 times in total. Immediately Priscilla is overwhelmed, Irene, Noel and Sophia gasp, this further proves that Irene thought Priscilla was the greater power, then she makes a statement that (this might not be exactly what she says mind you, but it is the general idea)"Priscilla after releasing so much power, had her massive strength repelled by Teresa who released just enough for her eyes to change colour. Is this to true strength of teresa when her eyes change colour". What does this statement mean, it means that the greater power was after all Teresa, so going by what Irene said, 10% Teresa is Much Greater than 70-79% Teresa , I think her words were FAR BEYOND, which is even more than MUCH GREATER. so 10% Teresa is FAR BEYOND 70-79% Priscilla. From that statement, we can also tell that Irene never even knew the extent of 10% Teresa's power, she must have simply measured Priscilla's 100% against base Teresa. (Teresa say priscilla has potential to be a monster, but it is stated that teresa almost never goes up to 10% when she says she'd better do it against rosemary before she forgets how to do it, so it is fair to say Teresa probably doesn't know how much her strength is after 10%, and she said Priscilla would be a monster because well, priscilla is a monster in terms of ability). If Irene doesn't even know the extent of 10% Teresa then it renders her statement about Priscilla being capable of surpassing Teresa moot. Anyways event further progressed and Priscilla, frustrated at not being able to win, tapped into her inner madness (The whole, Papa, Mama thing she always does), then she goes over 80+%, at this point she tries a preemptive, teresa was still trying to understand the whole Papa, Mama thing, and she attacks, but while teresa is surprised, she still blocks it. Result is first preemptive attack failed because 10% teresa is FAR BEYOND priscilla at the point, then the awakening starts she drops her sword starts screaming in pain and Crying, she has clearly lost here, then she begs like all claymores do to be killed while still being human. Teresa while keeping some sort of honor code and shit releases her yoki back to 0, in order to deliver the final blow. Remember that we concluded that 70-79% Priscilla was = speed and > strength than base Teresa, and this time she was over 80+, which means >Speed and Strength than base teresa, then she tries a second preemptive, preemptive attack plus greater speed and power and of cos Teresa's hands are immediately cut off, and she is immediately decapitated. That's about how the fight went, Teresa is undoubtedly the stronger of the 2, with the steady rate at which powers increase when you increase your yoma energy it is possible that 100% priscilla will still have been defeated by 10% Teresa, if not, then she'd have to raise it to max 15% and she's stomp her. there is even a way to calc that 10% > 80% which means Teresa is at least 8 times stronger than priscilla, then 100% divide 8 = 12.5% it'd take Teresa to beat Priscilla and this isn't exactly right because 10% was said to be FAR BEYOND. Anyways look at Teresa's feats to back up her power, she cut through 2-5 of the organization, she cut the about 10 or so warriors sent to initially kill her. The organization gave the definition of an Abyssal One as a previous number 1 that awakened, while they might vary in strength, she still qualifies as an abyssal one, and she gets blitzed by Teresa at 10%, in shot by a simple movement of her hand, Teresa uses brute force to rip off an abyssal one's hand, and we know that low numbered claymore's while being able to cut metal (except Clarice it seems) find it diificult to cut the skin of normal awakened beings, and this is an abyssal level awakened being and teresa uses a hand to rip off Rosemary's hand, and awakened beings easily level large buildings, this means she'd break metal with brute strength and could have possibly defeated Rosemary with her bear hands, cos rosemary didn't even realize her hand had been ripped off. People bring up the argument that rosemary couldn't be considered an abyssal one. But more recently we find out another of teresa's feats, you only realize this if u think deeply enough. The organization used Priscilla's arm to reproduce the 3 they considered to be the strongest ever no 1s, Cassandra, Hysteria and Roxanne. The three were said to be abyssal level. Before Hysteria died.......again, she narrated how she died the first time, she says the warriors gathered and she was cutting them down, (we know Hysteria was called the Elegant, since she had the most beautiful technique + she was fast enough to completely blitz mira, who happens to be one of the fastest claymores in the verse). So she was cutting the warriors down because she was obviously faster than them, she said "There was no one there who could keep up with my speed, so even with me alone, i should have been able to massacre all of them, but the one who delivered the final blow to me was the then number 4 Rosemary". she then said "but it wasn't her who defeated me, even before i that final blow, i had recieved a blow fatal blow that dulled my movements towards the end". Now I quote her final words "Blood and Screams where everywhere on the hill of massacre, There, the strange figure of a single warrior caught and held my eye. Admist the Warriors stiff with fear, she alone was FAINTLY SMILING". The Key word here is FAINTLY SMILING, what does that remind you of, FAINT SMILE right?, so Teresa delivered the fatal blow to an abyssal class no 1, which means she could have totally defeated rosemary if she was an abyssal class, which she was. If you doubt that it was teresa being talked about, check who delivers the final blow ROSEMARY? yeah, the same rosemary, doesn't it suit teresa's personality the way she liked to hide from the organization that she delivered a fatal blow to hysteria but let someone else finish her off so she doesn't take the credit and the organization doesn't know about her strength, same thing after she killed Rosemary, the man from the organization asked, What happened to your uniform(note that after all the hits she purposely took from an abyssal one, she didn't have a scratch on her just her uniform roughened up), hope u didn't allow Rosemary awaken "teresa says, of course not, if a former no 1 awakened i wouldn't be alive here, that i just saw a few yoma on the way", meaning even the organization have been constantly kept in the dark about her power, plus all those who witnessed it got killed by Priscilla except Irene who went into hiding and Claire who became a claymore. Another feat by teresa, was when she was still a trainee, we've seen how they are all locked up and kept in the organization but she was constantly able to escape and runaway, this isn't even the feat i'm referring too, just a minor one. Remember Rafaela, she was said to be an expert in killing her yoki, even top yoki sensors like Galatea who can sense yoki from range(possibly across continent as she sensed Luciela and Easley's fight in the south from the organization in the east) couldn't sense her presence, she was used as an enforcer of the organization, to sneak up on renegade claymore and kill them, the never notice she's there, even irene didn't notice, plus she had power to rival Luciela, since they were sisters, and were the first failed experiment of the eventual Alica & Beth Program. Anyways, one of such times when Teresa escaped as a trainee, she came across rafaela and said "Are you human?" after rafael confirms that she knows of the organization, Teresa says he sensed her yoki but it was very small like it wasn't there, and rubel's words were that it was IMPOSSIBLE/FUTILE to track rafaela through yoki since she had killed it off, and teresa as a trainee sensed it, also Rafaela was surprised that a trainee would journey from the organization across a considerable distance to the town, while going through the wilderness, with wild animals and youma several times. All these are feats accomplished and we only know a little of her. Riful was calced to MACH 3000 (I was also like what the hell), here is a link to the calc http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17277. we know Priscilla Blitzed Riful from a VERY VERY long distance away with riful being unable to react, and Teresa 12.5% > than Priscilla >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alicia >>>> Mach 3075 (Riful). Just consider this and yo know that Claymore verse is not to be Messed wih, especially the lady with the FAINT SMILE.
And it was shown that Priscilla could take down Abyssal Ones or equivalent powers with ease.
There can honestly be no certain confirmation of Awakened Rosemary's power level deduced since she WAS up against all-powerful Teresa.
It wouldn't matter if it Rosemary or Isley or Alicia or Beth, or any of the AOs.
Teresa would simply demolish them all, given her incredible and unrivaled power increase via 10% Yoki release.
Thus, Rosemary could have just been as powerful as any of the other AOs, but never had the chance simply because no one would against Teresa.
Don't forget, she was more powerful than any of the Claymores during Teresa's generation; judging from their strengths, probably the top 10 or so from Teresa's era were also from Rosemary's era, suggesting that Rosemary was more powerful than Irene, Noel, Sophia, etc etc
My evidence from here is that both Teresa and Rosemary were single digits when Hysteria was Rank Number 1.
The known progression of Rank 1 Claymore was Luciela/Rafaella->Hysteria->Rosemary->Teresa->Alicia/Beth.
That must have meant that Rank 4 Claymore at the time, Rosemary, eventually became the candidate after Rank 1 Hysteria (unawakened still) was killed.
If you look at the history of literature, there are many other nearly invincible warriors (like Teresa) who were killed while their guard was down, which makes their death so significant and tragic. The most notable example is in the medieval Middle High German epic, the Nibelungenlied, written around 1200 AD, where the famous hero Siegfried is killed by Hagen (Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen, famous especially for the 'Ride of the Valkyries' part, is based off of this).
Now, it is clearly emphasized that Teresa was in a sense "made soft" by her recent relationship with Clare. In my eyes this is not much different than what happens to Siegfried (not going to spoil the poem). Nevertheless, it is clear that her guard was down at the very least.
Since I have personally done battle with Teresa and was outmatched by her, and since I was nearly killed by Priscilla, I can say that Teresa is much more skilled and could outclass the Awakened Priscilla in direct combat.