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View Poll Results: who would win?

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  • Shunsui

    20 55.56%
  • Shinji

    16 44.44%
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Thread: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji


    Rules and Conditions:



    Scenario 1:

    1. Neither can use bankai.
    2. Neither knows the other's shikai abilities



    I honestly have no idea who would win. Shunsui is an expert swordsmen with a haxx shikai and Shinji has an arguabably more haxx shikai and vizard powers.

    I think it will be a pretty much even battle for a while, but Shinji will have the advantage at the beginning and Shunsui will have an advantage as more time goes by. Shinji's ability will hamper Shunsui superior swords skills and defending himself will be hard too. Shunsui's intelligence and skill will help deal with Sakanade, to a certain extent. He also has Irooni which he can be used as an effective defence, if he gets it in time.

    Shinji doesn't have anything to deal with Irooni. The only thing he has that gives him an advantage when playing that game is Sakanade's ability. Shunsui will have a hard time hitting Shinji. The shadow game will probably give him some trouble too, considering he doesn't know what it does and Shunsui is a very clever, sneaky guy.

    IMO Shinji best opportunity to kill Shunsui is at beginning while he still confused and ignorant about Shinji's ability. As time goes by Shunsui will get more and more accustomed to fighting that way and there's more of a chance Shunsui will get Irooni.

    Shinji could use his Vizard mask + his shikai ability and speed blitz Shunsui at the beginning I guess.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; February 13, 2010 at 12:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    I would give this to Shinji. When it comes to their shikai I would take Shinji's any day over Shunsui's. Unlike Shunsui's shikai, sakanade isn't conditional. What I mean by this is that there's none of that "my zanpakuto wasn't in the mood" or "my zanpakuto chooses the game" nonsense.

    Of course there's also Shinji's vizard abilities, like Kio said. We know he can shoot a pretty strong cero, so who knows what other hollow moves he can use. Maybe sonido. Now that I think about it, using his ceros in conjunction with his shikai would be pretty awesome.

    If Shinji's decides not to screw around, he could end the fight in one move. Activate sakanade, put on mask, and place all strength into one hit. If Shunsui does not know what his shikai does, then it's highly unlikely he'll even know what hit him.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; February 13, 2010 at 03:09 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Eternal_Breath's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Hmm this is a tough one, they're defiantly two of the strongest characters in Bleach at the moment with the main variable being the mood of Shunsui's zan.

    Presuming Shunsui's sword is feeling generous right off the get go I'd think he'd probably win, otherwise I'm more inclined to think it'd be Shinji.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member emanresu's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    shunsui has extra advantage in this due to his shikai nature to make use of colors

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    I have an inclination towards shinji while using shikai and mask here. With mask I would think he would have no problem whatsoever keeping up with shunsui's speed and with shikai he could get rid of shunsui's defense. His shikai would also work sort of as a cheat in the games considering shunsui might not be capable of using the games rules to his advantage. He would completely miss a shadow for instance and he would likely hit a color which he isn't looking for (unless he uses a color on his own body). Shunsui is ambidextrous though, so he might get used to having everything reversed rather fast.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Depending on how much control Shinji has over his shikai, it may be more haxx than I initially thought. Shinji may be able to determine how much is reversed or he might be able to turn off it's power while it's still in shikai.

    If he's able to do both of these things he will be able to beat almost anyone. His opponent will never be able to tell when he's using his ability or not. He could turn it on and off to confuse and disorient opponent.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    The results of this match depends on certain factors.
    1): Whether or not Kyoraku's Katen Kyokatsu is "in the mood" to use its real Shikai abilities.
    2): Shinji is Hollowfied.
    3): Shinji decides to readily use Sakunade during the fight.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Honestly this seems like a great fight even without the mask...Both have fairly haxxed abilities as far as zanpaktous go...Plus both seem extremely gifted swordfighters, great at shunpo, and overall badass. Honestly like one of the posters says if Shinji has an immense amount of control over his Zanpaktou and can switch off/on the effects mid battle he'd be even more haxxed...Honestly I'd say Shinji by a fair margin like 6-6.5/10... not including Hollow powers. With them I'd say about 8/10 he'd win vs Shunsui.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    it's not about knowing shinji's abilities, it's about fighting it. stark figured out shunsui and somewhat balanced the scale, maybe he would even force shunsui into bankai if not for the hole in his chest and fatigue from fighting vizards. but with shinji, you can figure out his abilities with the first glance, I mean it's so obvious once you see the guy upside dows, but there's no way in hell you can fight him. Aizen probably KS-ed him and watched him fight thin air, while he was standing aside and preparing to make a precise move. I respect Shunsui in every possible way, he might be one of the strongest, smartest chars out there, but that doesn't change the fact that he would fall against shinji in 1 vs 1 fight. so, main point is, that it's not about figuring out Shinji's abilities, it's about countering, adjusting, fighting them, which is impossible.
    Last edited by AlB; April 21, 2010 at 05:35 AM.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Shunsui's strong and all, but I don't see him winning unless he uses bankai. Even if he tried to draw out the battle so he can become accustomed to Sakanade, he sill would be at an big disadvantage.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; April 20, 2010 at 08:50 PM.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    one word, shadows. It doesn't matter where Shinji is, whether he's in front or in back of you, once Shunsui is in the shadows he can strike at any time. All of you voting for Shinji seem to forget that he's much younger than Shunsui and not nearly as experienced. Sakanade or not, Shunsui has him beat in the age/experience department by a long shot. Not only has Shunsui been captain for at least 100 years before Shinji but he did what two other captains with mask probably equal to Shinji's level (Rose and Love) could not do. That's beat stark, with one strike. He didn't just beat him, he demolished him. One strike to the body and it was done. Stark got his chance to hit Shunsui with all he had, and it merely gave him a cut. Shunsui got his chance and it killed him. Shunsui's speed is much greater than what is led to believe also. Take a look back at when he and Juushiro fought against Yama. Shunsui flash stepped nanao-chan so far away from their battle in just one step and came back in the next. Even yama applauded him for it. I dont see how reversing something is going to stop Shunsui from just hiding in the shadows and slicing him up. There's not very many ways to avoid casting shadows. And talking of reiatsu, it must be massive from him in order to stand against Yama, and to cancel out all abilities of Stark in ressureccion while playing the color game. Not to mention there is 3 other games including the shadow demon i mentioned. This win goes to Shunsui, easily.

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  17. #12
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    one word, shadows. It doesn't matter where Shinji is, whether he's in front or in back of you, once Shunsui is in the shadows he can strike at any time. All of you voting for Shinji seem to forget that he's much younger than Shunsui and not nearly as experienced. Sakanade or not, Shunsui has him beat in the age/experience department by a long shot. Not only has Shunsui been captain for at least 100 years before Shinji but he did what two other captains with mask probably equal to Shinji's level (Rose and Love) could not do. That's beat stark, with one strike. He didn't just beat him, he demolished him. One strike to the body and it was done. Stark got his chance to hit Shunsui with all he had, and it merely gave him a cut. Shunsui got his chance and it killed him. Shunsui's speed is much greater than what is led to believe also. Take a look back at when he and Juushiro fought against Yama. Shunsui flash stepped nanao-chan so far away from their battle in just one step and came back in the next. Even yama applauded him for it. I dont see how reversing something is going to stop Shunsui from just hiding in the shadows and slicing him up. There's not very many ways to avoid casting shadows. And talking of reiatsu, it must be massive from him in order to stand against Yama, and to cancel out all abilities of Stark in ressureccion while playing the color game. Not to mention there is 3 other games including the shadow demon i mentioned. This win goes to Shunsui, easily.
    can you tell me how much older shunsui is then? yes he may be older but it could be by only 10 years. and were did he get all this combat experience from? all they did was fight weak hollows before aizan came so were has all this experience come from? and don't say training because all he does is get drunk. and he didn't beat stark in one hit, it took two. and he didn't even beat starrk with overwhelming strength like you make it seem, he did it with cunning and trickery. though im not discounting his win and im sure he could of overpowered him with bankai. another thing you arn't taking in to account is shunsuis shikai not feeling like using the move shunsui wants. and his reliance on other people (rose and love for starrk and hitsugaya and soi fon for aizan) to get the only hits he got on his opponets with the shadow game.

    im not gonna mention why you are underestimating shinjis shikai, it's all in posts above yours.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    i didn't underestimate his shikai, it's not hard to figure out though, if everything is inverted you'd have to do opposite of what you would normally do. Thats not very complex compared to a shikai where you can hide in the shadows, where you can strike only certain colors, where you can surround your oponent with a swirling wind game... and more. Shunsui has shown 4 abilities, Shinji has shown one. Shunsui might not be that much older than Shinji, but his captain experience has been much much greater. At least 100 years before Shinji. And how do you know what they've fought before? Were you there? no one was, we don't have that story yet, but there's no reason to doubt that there were encounters and battles. You don't earn your place in yama's best captain list for doing nothing. Where was his praise for Shinji? Where was his comments about how no one before nor after have had his potential? Yama has said little about Shinji- to me he's just a pretty strong captain who got hollow powers. Shunsui is an elite shinigami who's been captain for as long as any other has that we know of.
    Last edited by freshseth83; April 21, 2010 at 04:29 AM.

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  20. #14
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    one word, shadows. It doesn't matter where Shinji is, whether he's in front or in back of you, once Shunsui is in the shadows he can strike at any time. All of you voting for Shinji seem to forget that he's much younger than Shunsui and not nearly as experienced. Sakanade or not, Shunsui has him beat in the age/experience department by a long shot. Not only has Shunsui been captain for at least 100 years before Shinji but he did what two other captains with mask probably equal to Shinji's level (Rose and Love) could not do. That's beat stark, with one strike. He didn't just beat him, he demolished him. One strike to the body and it was done. Stark got his chance to hit Shunsui with all he had, and it merely gave him a cut. Shunsui got his chance and it killed him. Shunsui's speed is much greater than what is led to believe also. Take a look back at when he and Juushiro fought against Yama. Shunsui flash stepped nanao-chan so far away from their battle in just one step and came back in the next. Even yama applauded him for it. I dont see how reversing something is going to stop Shunsui from just hiding in the shadows and slicing him up. There's not very many ways to avoid casting shadows. And talking of reiatsu, it must be massive from him in order to stand against Yama, and to cancel out all abilities of Stark in ressureccion while playing the color game. Not to mention there is 3 other games including the shadow demon i mentioned. This win goes to Shunsui, easily.
    thing is Shunsui exploited the distraction created by vizards to put a hole in stark's chest, after that, fight was as good as over. and Rose and Love never lost against stark, they would just go bankai and demolish him. and about hiding in shadows, you need to find a shadow to hide in, if he sees a shadow on his bottom-right and tries to hide in it, he will fail. why? because shadow is not there, its somewhere else and not where he sees it, same with striking out of shadows, he aims at shinji but misses. where's shinji? behind/right/left/up/down, ready to chop off his head. you see how broken Sakanade is? he might figure out the position of shadow under sakanade's effects, but that would have to shift attention from the opponent to try and concentrate on the position, and in the heat of battle, you don't have such luxury. same cycle repeats with striking.
    Last edited by AlB; April 21, 2010 at 05:44 AM.

  21. #15
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    1- Exploiting a weaknesses shows intelligence in battle, not the other way around.
    2. The whole in starkks did not hurt him much whatsoever, it was the numbers game. Even if it did, it showed how shunsui was clearly superior. His hit injured starks while rose with his shikai and mask hit starks point blank and didn't injure him
    3. Bankai is just a bigger version of their shikai. Rose and love can't hit what they can't catch and it was clear that they are slower than starks. Furthermore, starks was clearly confident he could own them both!
    4. Shunsui is ambidextrious. That has got to mean that it won't take long at all for him to adjust correctly. People overestimate just how much that affect hinder someone. Hell, if it was something like tsunade's sensory punch, then it would be a different story, but all this is is that everything is backwards. Not taht difficult.

    Shunsui has shown to be completely superior to 2 vizard captains already. he lectured them as if they were children to him.. Shinji is not much different. And besides, teh vizards do not have a good track record in case u forgot.

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