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Thread: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

  1. #16
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Weapon_X's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Damn, actually Kakashi didn't favor Sasuke BECAUSE when Jiraiya came back to Konoha, he TOLD Kakashi to look after Sasuke whilst he leaves Naruto to Jiraiya, even though the 3rd wanted Kakashi to look after Naruto.

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...3/page008.html
    ..: Greatest Doujutsu Prodigies :..

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  3. #17
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity -Ren Boy-'s Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon_X View Post
    Damn, actually Kakashi didn't favor Sasuke BECAUSE when Jiraiya came back to Konoha, he TOLD Kakashi to look after Sasuke whilst he leaves Naruto to Jiraiya, even though the 3rd wanted Kakashi to look after Naruto.

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...3/page008.html
    that was after Kakashi teached Sasuke chidori

    and shinsengumi how are we bashing Kakashi, if he stated this himself. We just haven't got around to the good things Kakashi has done as a sensei
    Last edited by -Ren Boy-; February 21, 2010 at 05:48 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member feisu-chan's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon_X View Post
    Damn, actually Kakashi didn't favor Sasuke BECAUSE when Jiraiya came back to Konoha, he TOLD Kakashi to look after Sasuke whilst he leaves Naruto to Jiraiya, even though the 3rd wanted Kakashi to look after Naruto.

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...3/page008.html
    That being said, Kakashi didn't really do a good job looking after Sasuke, did he? He did try - lecturing him on his superiority complex, or Oro's seal being reactivated at his own will, or the Chidori. However, like what Kusachu had mentioned, it was Kakashi's aloofness that might have been at fault. He distanced himself too much. He could have been a father/brother-figure to Sasuke, given that they had a lot in common.

    This sounds cheesy, but i viewed Kakashi as someone who was too afraid to get hurt that he had to keep a wall up...

    Kakashi should also have paid attention to his other students. it wasn't until Part2 that i saw Kakashi spend that much time with Naruto... as for Sakura, it's too obvious... Thank God for Tsunade!

    Most points were already enumerated... OW, wait, i would also consider his silence as a letdown. He rarely voice out his opinion on things - if not at all. If he was always that guy during the first bell test - the one who reprimanded all of them for being stupid and obsessed and selfish - then his students would've had so much life lessons learned from him...

    Sasuke had a better understanding about teamwork after Kakashi's lecture on the bell test, didn't he? Kakashi should have elaborated on that, knowing all too well what costs a distorted team could bring.

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  6. #19
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    I think Kakashi preferred to trust his students, and he probably thought they matured and knew better. He probably believed in letting younger generations learn on their own. Despite this, I still don't think Kakashi was in any fault. Sasuke was the one who seeked power, who was manipulated by others, and the one who decided to leave.
    Kakashi actually tried to help (though he may have made Sasuke more dangerous). he taught Sasuke chidori so he didn't have to rely on CS. Part I apparently shows us Sasuke isn't that powerful when he fights for someone else.
    Vote for koen for favorite senpai so koen is active again!

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  8. #20
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    I don't think kakashi did anything inherently wrong with his students at all. He was just like any other teacher. Sasuke chose to leave the village on his own, nothing kakashi could have ultimately done about that. The CS was a major turning point in what happened to sasuke. Sasuke was already considering a life of peace with the leafs yet the influence of the seal rid him of his freedom and brought forth every single ounce of resentment and hate he had in him. Kakashi did a powerful seal, yet ultimately the one who had to suppress it was sasuke and we all know he at some point even craved for the power it gave him. Kakashi not only did the seal but after sasuke was given the CS he took him to train for a month. The month was meant to show sasuke the CS and orochimaru are not the only means to acquire power, to drive him away from his revenge. Yet, it was ultimately sasuke who made all the wrong desicions. How was kakashi supposed to know the fight between gaara and naruto would bring forth such jealousy from sasuke towards naruto -which made him feel weak and had a mayor part in him leaving-? Kakashi did everything he could to stop sasuke from that path, sasuke simply did everything he could to stay in it.

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  10. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinsengumi View Post
    omg how can all of you bash kakashi this much? it wasnt his mistake that sasuke turned out a psycho. honestly, do you really believe he could be able to change sasuke's heart in any way?
    his favorizm over sasuke is not the actual cause either, and obviously its not something that normally turns someone into a villian.from that logic naruto should have turned into a villian because he had all the reasons to be jelaous of sasuke.
    if kakashi didnt favor sasuke ,sasuke would leave the village even earlier. his only purpose was to get strong enough to beat itachi so kakashi showing him special treatment wasnt anything bad at that time.
    if kakashi taught naruto and sakura equaly as he did to sasuke, sasuke would feel the need to leave the village even earlier because he would think, "this 2 suckers are closing the gap between us,it means i'm not improving as much as i need to"
    if special treatment is the biggest miskate a teacher can make , why dont you go check Gai-Lee ? well to be precise ,ofcourse its not something good but it has nothing to do with sasuke turning evil in the end
    response to bolded part of your post:
    let us all bow to the wishes of sasuke-sama, let his wise opinions be absolute. just because a guy has superiority complex it doesn't mean that others should suffer.

    he could have tought sakura and naruto couple of jutsus couldn't he? with his supposed arsenal of 1000 jutsus but noooo all this time it was "sasukeee sasukeee". why didn't he pay attention to naruto when chunin exmas were coming? what he was afraid sasuke would die against gaara? why wasn't he afraif that naruto would die against neji huh? did he not consider hyuga genius dangerous? and sasuke at his then current level had much more chance of survival than naruto.
    and about gai-lee, this has in no way influenced team, entire team are professional taijutsu shinobi, while kakashi's team (sakura, naruto) became competent only through training with sannins
    Last edited by AlB; February 23, 2010 at 09:36 AM.

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  12. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    If I'm somwhat bashing with this comment, I apologize but can someone put up a poll deciding which one would be a better sensei, Yamato or Kakashi?

  13. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member THETRUTH.com's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    I don't think Kakashi could have done too much more for Sasuke but open up. However, the things Kakashi did were consistent with being a shinobi. One of Kakashi's mistakes was treating his team like professionals. Kakashi is professional and tried to demonstrate that to Team 7. Sasuke & Naruto was always going to be a feast or famine situation. They would either grow together or apart and without an attitude adjustment from Sasuke it would be impossible for them to grow together.

    Kakashi should have done a much better job with Sakura. He has genjutsu he could have taught her. He could should have sharpened her taijutsu skill. If Sakura had better taijutsu it would have amplify the skills she gain under Tsunade-hime's tutelage. Then she could use genjutsu to set up her taijutsu.

    Kakashi made a mistake with Naruto by not pushing him all the time. Naruto greatest asset for training is his stamina. Kakashi should have had him training everyday all day.

    There are a couple of things that can not be overlooked (1) Kakashi only had Sasuke for 6 mo and (2) he had two team members with no parents. Kakashi didn't have very much time with Team 7. Kakashi influence would have grow over time. He also would have had time to address the needs of his team and work on their problem areas. Kakashi may have wanted to put the team in the Chuunin Exam to let them measure themselves thinking afterward they would be more aware of their weakness and motivated to train.


  14. #24
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    There are a few things to consider though. Not only sasuke needed considerably more attention than naruto and sakura at the time but also kakashi could relate to sasuke 1000 times better than to naruto and sakura.

    1.- Sasuke needed to get driven away from his path hence why kakashi took him to train for the last part of the chunnin exam.

    2.- Sasuke and kakashi are both lost their parents in an untimely manner -naruto never had parents BTW which is kinda different-.

    3.- Both are geniuses.

    4.- Both have sharingan.

    Now, given all the things they have en common, it makes sense kakashi gave him more time -not to mention sasuke needed the extra kakashi attention-. Also, naruto and sakura were eventually trained by jiraiya and tsunade which is by all intents and purposes a much better training than what kakashi could have given either of them -even for FRS training kakashi didn't actually do anything other than minor advise-.

    I do want to point out another thing. The only moments where it seemed kakashi gave more attention to sasuke than naruto and sakura was the chunnin exam. Other than that, we have little to no reason to assume that was a constant behavior outside that arc. Personally, I don't think kakashi could have done much more than what he did. He was leader of team 7 for less than a year and afterwards the 3 of them took teachers who influenced in ways kakashi could have never even hoped to compare.

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  16. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkPrinceRevan's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    There are a few things to consider though. Not only sasuke needed considerably more attention than naruto and sakura at the time but also kakashi could relate to sasuke 1000 times better than to naruto and sakura.

    1.- Sasuke needed to get driven away from his path hence why kakashi took him to train for the last part of the chunnin exam.

    2.- Sasuke and kakashi are both lost their parents in an untimely manner -naruto never had parents BTW which is kinda different-.

    3.- Both are geniuses.

    4.- Both have sharingan.

    Now, given all the things they have en common, it makes sense kakashi gave him more time -not to mention sasuke needed the extra kakashi attention-. Also, naruto and sakura were eventually trained by jiraiya and tsunade which is by all intents and purposes a much better training than what kakashi could have given either of them -even for FRS training kakashi didn't actually do anything other than minor advise-.

    I do want to point out another thing. The only moments where it seemed kakashi gave more attention to sasuke than naruto and sakura was the chunnin exam. Other than that, we have little to no reason to assume that was a constant behavior outside that arc. Personally, I don't think kakashi could have done much more than what he did. He was leader of team 7 for less than a year and afterwards the 3 of them took teachers who influenced in ways kakashi could have never even hoped to compare.
    I think it can be argued that naruto had just as much to worry as sasuke. naruto was in real bad shape after the forest of death as well thanks to orochimaru's seal that jacked up his chakra control. if left unattended he couldve gotten himself killed by negi, considering at the time kakashi himself even saw negi go for a killing blow against hinata because of her nindo. the same nindo she got from naruto, now imagine what he wouldve did to him under those circumstances without his regular chakra control.

    and as for relating to sasuke more than naruto, on the surface that may be true but come on kakashi in the same team and even taught the rasengan by the minato. all things considered kakashi had all the incentive in the world to better relate to naruto. heck he couldve even taught naruto the rasengan in the same month it took to train sasuke. and speaking of losing parents in an untimely manner, minato getting his soul devoured by a shinigami and kushina being m.i.a doesnt count for an untimely manner!?

    in retrospect naruto and saskura were made better by training with the jiraya and tsunade but thats looking in hindsight, addition training from kakashi wouldnt have taken away from anything they still couldve learned from jiraya and tsundae eventually.

    but really the chunnin exam is what really set the stage for kakashi to step up and really teach team 7 as a whole because after that all other chances were kinda missed opportunities. naruto went away with jiraya to find tsunade and sakura was kinda just there in the background. both kakashi and sasuke got mind raped by itachi one after the other. and by the time kakashi was back on his feet the rift between the team had already been set in stone.

    i see where u were going with your post but kakashi can be far better teacher then we give him credit for and not as on top of things as we would like him to be

  17. #26
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Rosebullet Teacher's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Isnt Team 7 Kakashi's first team? He's just a genin at this leader stuff
    FuS

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  19. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkPrinceRevan's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebullet Teacher View Post
    Isnt Team 7 Kakashi's first team? He's just a genin at this leader stuff
    FuS
    not true, in the gaiden he took over team minato when he was promoted to jonin. and he failed all the teams that came before team 7

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  21. #28
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPrinceRevan View Post
    I think it can be argued that naruto had just as much to worry as sasuke. naruto was in real bad shape after the forest of death as well thanks to orochimaru's seal that jacked up his chakra control. if left unattended he couldve gotten himself killed by negi, considering at the time kakashi himself even saw negi go for a killing blow against hinata because of her nindo. the same nindo she got from naruto, now imagine what he wouldve did to him under those circumstances without his regular chakra control.

    and as for relating to sasuke more than naruto, on the surface that may be true but come on kakashi in the same team and even taught the rasengan by the minato. all things considered kakashi had all the incentive in the world to better relate to naruto. heck he couldve even taught naruto the rasengan in the same month it took to train sasuke. and speaking of losing parents in an untimely manner, minato getting his soul devoured by a shinigami and kushina being m.i.a doesnt count for an untimely manner!?

    in retrospect naruto and saskura were made better by training with the jiraya and tsunade but thats looking in hindsight, addition training from kakashi wouldnt have taken away from anything they still couldve learned from jiraya and tsundae eventually.

    but really the chunnin exam is what really set the stage for kakashi to step up and really teach team 7 as a whole because after that all other chances were kinda missed opportunities. naruto went away with jiraya to find tsunade and sakura was kinda just there in the background. both kakashi and sasuke got mind raped by itachi one after the other. and by the time kakashi was back on his feet the rift between the team had already been set in stone.

    i see where u were going with your post but kakashi can be far better teacher then we give him credit for and not as on top of things as we would like him to be
    Getting killed by neji? I don't think naruto's performace in the chunnin exam was exactly a prime source of concern for anyone at all. Also, odds are naruto didn't even mentioned to kakashi the whole thing -even naruto seemed unaware of that-. Considering sasuke had just received a CS which was bound to take over him at any moment it makes more than perfect sense for kakashi to give priority to him over naruto. Also, kakashi did get naruto a good teacher for the next part of the exam. Even if ebisu was not naruto's ideal choice he is still an elite teacher who is just as qualified as kakashi to teach the basics -which is what naruto severely lacked at the moment, surely it would have been a waste of time for kakashi to teach naruto academy level crap-.

    The difference in the untimely manner is that naruto never had parents to begin with. Both kakashi and sasuke actually "lost" them and felt the full blow of the thing. Even naruto noted how he didn't know what sasuke went through due to the difference of having parents at some point and not having them.

    The bold part is hardly an argument. Only way to fix that was for kakashi to see into the future. Even then at the moment chunnin exam or not sasuke definitely need extra attention from kakashi and reasons to not use the CS and seek orochimaru. Considering everything, it is very clear that all the extra time kakashi spent with sasuke was still not enough (or rather in the end no amount of time would have made a difference but still, those are not things kakashi could have foreseen). Personally, I think kakashi did as much as he possibly could have given the circumstances. Problem was oro managed to mind rape him from the inside using the CS which is not something kakashi could have done anything about other than what he did.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkPrinceRevan's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Getting killed by neji? I don't think naruto's performace in the chunnin exam was exactly a prime source of concern for anyone at all. Also, odds are naruto didn't even mentioned to kakashi the whole thing -even naruto seemed unaware of that-. Considering sasuke had just received a CS which was bound to take over him at any moment it makes more than perfect sense for kakashi to give priority to him over naruto. Also, kakashi did get naruto a good teacher for the next part of the exam. Even if ebisu was not naruto's ideal choice he is still an elite teacher who is just as qualified as kakashi to teach the basics -which is what naruto severely lacked at the moment, surely it would have been a waste of time for kakashi to teach naruto academy level crap-.
    even if ebisu was ideal to teach naruto the bases that still didnt address the fact oro jacked up narutos seal which affected his chakra control and no amount of ebisu teaching wouldve fixed that. the only one who took the time to notice was jiraya. but really how long would it take for naruto to learn the basics under kakashi. i dont mean to sound like i nitpicking but i find it unacceptable to just go along with he couldnt teach them both during that month, he couldve trained them together like he did the tree exercising test.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Where did Kakashi go wrong with his students?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPrinceRevan View Post
    even if ebisu was ideal to teach naruto the bases that still didnt address the fact oro jacked up narutos seal which affected his chakra control and no amount of ebisu teaching wouldve fixed that. the only one who took the time to notice was jiraya. but really how long would it take for naruto to learn the basics under kakashi. i dont mean to sound like i nitpicking but i find it unacceptable to just go along with he couldnt teach them both during that month, he couldve trained them together like he did the tree exercising test.
    The seal thing would be a good point under the assumption that naruto or kakashi were aware of such a thing. What was kakashi supposed to do? Was he to assume orochimaru did something to the seal? Not to mention kakashi knows squad about the kyubi seal, the only person who actually had a little knowledge about it was jiraiya. Even if kakashi at the time had actually known or even had reason to suspect there was something wrong with a seal about which he knew nothing about already odds are there was little he could have done.

    It is obvious kakashi wanted to dedicate that month to sasuke -and with good reason considering the incoming fight and the CS-. Now, what could have kakashi taught naruto during that month at the time? Naruto's chakra control was below normal due to the seal -and we have no half decent evidence that kakashi could have done or suspected something about it-. On top of that, the one who would have been held back under such circumstances is sasuke due to not being able to get kakashi's undivided attention because his dumbass team mate was helpless in grasping simple crap which sasuke probably already mastered before becoming a gennin or graduating the academy. It was much more efficient to delegate academy level training to ebisu and let kakashi teach sasuke the good stuff. it's not like naruto had it in him to do any of the good stuff at the moment. Also, worth noting ebisu did manage to teach naruto how to walk on water -to the extent naruto's less than limited chakra control at the moment allowed- which shows kakashi wasn't of in the least when he chose ebisu.

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