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Thread: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    I have come to the conclusion that, in Bleach, Hitsugaya Toushirou is the Captain with by far the most sense. Hell, maybe even in the entire Gotei 13. Almost everyone else is either partially incompetent or completely idiotic.

    Examples are not shown in plot order.

    Exhibit A: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/232/04/ + next page
    He's only the second character I've seen that actually tried to stop an opponent from releasing their sword. Even though his attempt was futile, he still gets points for trying. The only other was Yoruchi when she wrapped up Byakuya's Senbonzakura.

    Every other character just sits around and lets the release happen or actively baits their opponent to release. The only character in the series that has had a good reason for baiting their opponent's release was Dordonii, because he actually wanted to achieve something by defeating Ichigo at his full power. Everyone else just seems to do it to look cool.

    He also shows the ability to actually learn from the past, abstract reasoning (both of which are seriously a lot rarer than they should be), and quick decision making skills. He remembered how powerful Shawlong became after he released Tijereta, reasoned that Luppi's release probably works in a similar manner, and decided right away that he needed to stop it. He also used Bankai immediately, no messing around with getting his Shikai slapped around first. He wanted to end that fight right there, right then.

    The only other Captain who is that quick and decisive in his actions is Komamura.

    Exhibit B: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/234/23/
    He knew that his opponent, as all bad guys are, would play around with the other guys for a while and be too stupid to finish them off right away. So after he got knocked away, instead of charging headfirst back into the battle, he took time to set up the most powerful attack he could manage in that circumstance, Sennen Hyourou. (Hyouten Hyakkasou would have been too dangerous with his allies so close).

    Exhibit C: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/355/17/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/06/
    He's not arrogant or overly proud, like quite a few people are, both good and bad. He's the only one I've seen in the series that actually gives thought to the possibility that the opponent might be stronger than them. He had the foresight to set up a decoy to scout Harribel's power without getting hurt.

    The one fault I've really found with Hitsugaya is the little spat he had with Hiyori calling each other short. Hiyori pisses everyone off, but I really expected Hitsugaya to have a cooler head than that.

    Now, on to why I don't like the other Captains. The 3 defectors shall be excluded from this.

    #1 Yamamoto Genryuusai Shigekuni: This guy is supposed to be the monster of all the Captains, but he doesn't even do a damn thing. He fought a grand total of once, and effortlessly took down 3 Fraccion and their freakish monster pet. What the hell is this guy doing lazing around while everyone else is getting hammered on? Fight already, you idiot! I really hope this guy gets off his damn ass and does something important soon. Like, just freakin' Bankai and roast Aizen already.

    #2 Soifon: She's gotten better about it now, but during the Soul Society arc she was totally arrogant and acting really superior to Yoruichi. She was also reluctant to help Hachi fight Barragan, despite being literally in a do-or-die situation. She's a bit of a bitch too.

    #4 Unohana Retsu: She's done less than Yamamoto, battle wise. She refused to fight Rudobon, for some stupid reason that I don't get. Hopefully she'll get some action when she gets to the real world, and doesn't just get stuck healing Hiyori and the other hurt Shinigami.

    #6 Kuchiki Byakuya: Ths guy is self-importance personified. Solid, crystallized jack-ass. If his ego was any more inflated, he'd put the Hindenburg to shame. Putting aside the fact that he was willing to let his own sister get executed just because that was the law, This guy is so condescending that I can't stand him. He recent speech to Ichigo - "There is none amongst the Captain's of the Gotei 13 to whom the aid of one such as yourself could be considered significant" - would be a whole hell of a lot cooler if he wasn't talking to someone who kicked his ass before. And during his fight with Zommari, he was constantly putting him down for being a Hollow. A total racist.

    Also, due to his pride and arrogance, he refused to believe that Tensa Zangetsu was a Bankai, and was caught totally off guard by it's speed. The only reason he's still alive is because Ichigo didn't have the guts to kill him right there.

    Byakuya is tied for 2nd for my most hated captain in Bleach. Senbonzakura is tied with Hyourinmaru for my favorite Zanpakutou though. (Hyourinmaru usually wins)

    #7 Komamura Sajin: I actually like him quite a bit and can identify with him some. I do think he's a bit too loyal to Yamamoto, but considering his circumstances it's somewhat understandable. His other fault is that he is very rash, using his Bankai probably more often than he should, considering it's weakness. Even if it is less powerful, his Shikai seems faster, more versatile, and less dangerous to himself.

    #8 Kyouraku Shunsui: He's too lazy, but at least he can get serious when the time calls for it. I especially loved how he fought against Starrk after he released Katen Kyoukotsu. He used ambushes and cheap shots all over in order to gain the upper hand and kill Starrk in any way possible. He tried to sucker punch Starrk while he was in the middle of a monologue, and ambushed Starrk with Kageoni while he was distracted by Love and Rose.

    Still, he was one of those "Let's bait the opponent's release" idiots that I mentioned above. If the opponent is too arrogant or stupid to use their full power, you kill them, you don't bait them out.

    #11 Zaraki Kenpachi: The guy's a lunatic, but I can't hold it against him like I can with the other guy's. I must admit, Kenpachi's charm comes from the fact that he is so senseless and crazy.

    #12 Kurotsuchi Mayuri: I want him to die. Preferably something horrible, painful, and humiliating like live dissection. This guy blew up members of his own squad, performed horrible experiments of Quincy (Especially Souken, Ishida's grandpa), has absolutely no respect for the rights of others (such as implanting surveillance bacteria in Ishida), and totally abuses Nemu (and God only knows what else he does with her).

    I don't can how useful he is to the Gotei or how much of a genius he is, I would not be able to tolerate a guy like this, ever. I'd freakin kill him if I could, laws of Soul Society be damned.

    #13 Ukitake Juushirou: Tied with Byakuya for my second most hated Captain. I like his personality, and I have no doubt that he is strong, but he's a damn imbecile. He was freakin' playing around with Lilynette when he should have been trying to kill her. Given that he had enough skill to disarm her barehanded, he should have been able to waste her with no problems.

    I used to like him, but the way he handled Lilynette alone is enough that, if I was in charge, I'd be chewing his ass out, grinding it up, and serving it to everyone else with a side of rice. And then I'd consider demoting him for gross idiocy.

    There's no excuse for being that stupid in the middle of a war.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    While I more or less agree (Though personally I think this in itself is a complete accident brought on by Kubo choosing quite a few poor paths to take in regards to the narrative of his fights) he isn't quite flawless with it, what with wanting to go after Aizen despite the last time not going well at all. Though granted, considering the fact that no one was covering Aizen in that time frame even that may have a reason. And he quickly realized his mistake nonetheless.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    lol. I Agree with Histu's strats.

    The kids got a plan...

    Hes implied to have a great sense of his surroundings, fairly intelligent and strategic. After all he was sent to the real world because he was the best blend of being inconspicuous, focused and intelligence gathering.

    His plans are sound it just depends on Kubo how effective he wants them to be. Stating numerous times that Hitsugaya has immense potential and talent while also being young and inexp as others of his rank has given him a slider of how powerful he wants to show the kid to be in a battle..

    Still his strats is a decent change to the rush forward for some slice and dice that many fighters in Bleach seem to be rersticted to...
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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    You make some very good points, but I do disagree with some.

    Unohana was actually more than prepared to fight Rudobone and his men, but she was probably reluctant to do so because Chad and Gantenbainne's lives were on the line; they were already severely injured and laying around for quite some time. Had they wasted time with Rudobone, Chad and Gantenbainne might have died. It was Rudobone himself that backed off because he realised that he and the Exequias stood no chance against Unohana; letting them heal two weaklings was a small price to pay for staying alive.

    And about not releasing your Bankai immediately, there's a simple reason, actually: it a captain's last ace. If say, Kyouraku, were to release his Bankai in his fight against Starrk immediately, sure, he would've annhiliated him. But Aizen and Gin and all other opponents would see them and they'd be able to figure out it's abilities and possibly a way to counter them. Even if it makes one fight easier, it's preferable to keep your secret weapon, you know... A secret.

    Finally, about Yamamoto. I agree that I really want to see him fight, but there are two reasons, I think, that he's barely doing anything. 1) I think he's waiting for all the other captains and Vizards to wear Aizen out before he attacks him and 2) he's very old. All of Yamamoto's stats seem off the charts, except his stamina. Even he's overwhelmingly powerful, he cannot fight for very long. I don't like it either, but this guy won't fight Aizen until everyone else is down. Finally, he's under the influence of Kyouka Suigetsu, so we're not even sure what good he's going to do. What good is all that power if you can't hit Aizen with it?
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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    I don't think byakuya is nearly as bad as you mention. First of all, I honestly doubt he could care less whether his opponent is a hollow, arrancar, shinigami or a pink polka dotted monkey with a tutu. If fact, the one who brought up the whole racism thing was zomari, byakuya didn't mention it once. He barely talked to the guy. If anything he killed zomari to protect rukia and because zomari threatened him. It is also worth mentioning that when byakuya fights, even though he is reckless and impulsive, he makes remarkably fast and clearheaded decisions.

    Also worth noting, nemu is technically a thing mayuri made for the very purpose of using her the way he does. On top of that, she won't actually die for some measly massive organ failure and poisoning. For all we know even stabbing her in the head MIGHT not kill her. Even if you consider her emotions, he couldn't possibly care less about what mayuri does to her. She even seems to want to be used in said way for the sake of mayuri.

    Genryuisai is the leader of the gotei 13, a decision maker. Even though he is the strongest, his job is to lead and should always fight as a last option. Only reason he took a part in the fight against along and the fraccion is that had he not done it the VC would have beyond reasonable doubt died. Given his words back them, it seems as if it should be a matter of pride not to let the guy fight.

    As for ukitake fighting lilinet, how could he have possibly known she was a part of primera? He thought she was an incredibly weak hollow with no capacity to make a difference in the war. Dunno, killing lilinet at that point seems outright pointless lol.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    I agree with most of the original post. I think its a great summary of Hitsugaya's superior thinking.

    The one thing I disagree with is, like Kkck about Byakuya. While he does talk a lot of arrogant smack, I like that to an extent because the bad guys are so appallingly arrogant the good side needs someone to balance this out. Also, he can back it up and then some so its fine. Besides, apart from Hitsugaya, he is the captain that gets the most involved with things and actually does his job-the rest are just a bunch of lazy ****s lol.
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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Well he's not called a genius because he's thick as 2 bricks.

    Did it ever occur to you the reason most of the captains have done nothing is to save something new for the final battle? It'd be ridiculous if the 4 strongest captains, Yama, Unohana, Ukitake and Kyoraku revealed what they're capable of. Besides, Unohana did the right thing in not killing Rudabone, her job is after all to heal injuries.

    As for Hitsugaya, he may be the smartest but he lacks knowledge, skill and mentality not to mention he has trouble staying calm. If Aizen or Gin were to call him a kiddy name like most people he'd get annoyed and lose focus and get dead at the same time.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    we must also not forget that on most occassions when he undertakes a mission he volunteers and is not choosen because he is so overly qualified. Most other captains are to lazy and know Hitsugaya is a workaholic. I admit he is inteligent and a genius however his self sacrifice, temper and being immature doesnt make him superior to all the other captains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalik2k
    Did it ever occur to you the reason most of the captains have done nothing is to save something new for the final battle? It'd be ridiculous if the 4 strongest captains, Yama, Unohana, Ukitake and Kyoraku revealed what they're capable of. Besides, Unohana did the right thing in not killing Rudabone, her job is after all to heal injuries.

    As for Hitsugaya, he may be the smartest but he lacks knowledge, skill and mentality not to mention he has trouble staying calm. If Aizen or Gin were to call him a kiddy name like most people he'd get annoyed and lose focus and get dead at the same time.
    this sums up the rest

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    To resume everything,I would say that basically Hitsugaya is a GENIUS strategist,that works on himself and looks on the big picture,to improve his knowledge and fight abilities.
    I think that both Aizen and Urahara are on the same league with different goals and for different sake.If Hitsu's strategy goal is to improve himself,Aizen's is to be GOD(with all the plans he did to beat SS),Urahara's is to improve for the love of improvement.
    He is a good tactician too,seeing his ability to adapt in every fight(even if it takes some time),but on this matter I think that Shunsui/Mayuri/Urahara/Gin are far superior,seeing the trick and the way thay do it.What Hitsu lack in this point,is that while fighting he thinks/talks/whine to much,while he should go for the kill when he see a good spot.Going around trying to trap his enemy instead of killing them,is just idiotic.Luppi escaped,Halibel escaped,Gin escaped...he should learn from him and Shunsui,that the moment u see a spot,is the moment u have to kill.
    Last edited by Yans86; December 21, 2009 at 10:36 AM.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Hitsugaya, like Kyoraku said, will become one of the most powerful Shinigami ever existed but i don't think he's so amazing...By the way i disagree with your opinions. Yamamoto, Ukitake, Byakuya, Unohana, Kyoraku are so damn cool with their attitude.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Quote Quote:
    we must also not forget that on most occassions when he undertakes a mission he volunteers and is not choosen because he is so overly qualified. Most other captains are to lazy and know Hitsugaya is a workaholic. I admit he is inteligent and a genius however his self sacrifice, temper and being immature doesnt make him superior to all the other captains.
    Actually the databook appears to imply he usually gets specifically selected due to his high skill level and his ability to handle all kinds of battles. Though I suppose you could argue this particular wording:

    Quote Quote:
    All his abilities are at high levels. As he is able to handle all kinds of battles, he is ever-present in important missions.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Cowboy View Post
    You make some very good points, but I do disagree with some.

    Unohana was actually more than prepared to fight Rudobone and his men, but she was probably reluctant to do so because Chad and Gantenbainne's lives were on the line; they were already severely injured and laying around for quite some time. Had they wasted time with Rudobone, Chad and Gantenbainne might have died. It was Rudobone himself that backed off because he realised that he and the Exequias stood no chance against Unohana; letting them heal two weaklings was a small price to pay for staying alive.
    After reading it again, it does seem that way. Still, Unohana's hardly done anything, so it's hard to tell with her.
    Quote Quote:
    And about not releasing your Bankai immediately, there's a simple reason, actually: it a captain's last ace. If say, Kyouraku, were to release his Bankai in his fight against Starrk immediately, sure, he would've annhiliated him. But Aizen and Gin and all other opponents would see them and they'd be able to figure out it's abilities and possibly a way to counter them. Even if it makes one fight easier, it's preferable to keep your secret weapon, you know... A secret.
    I didn't hold it against Kyouraku and Ukitake for not releasing their Bankais against Starrk. Ukitake even mentioned that Starrk's isn't something to be used with people around, so it could even be potentially dangerous or something. And I do know the value of keeping secrets from your enemy.
    Quote Quote:
    Finally, about Yamamoto. I agree that I really want to see him fight, but there are two reasons, I think, that he's barely doing anything. 1) I think he's waiting for all the other captains and Vizards to wear Aizen out before he attacks him and 2) he's very old. All of Yamamoto's stats seem off the charts, except his stamina. Even he's overwhelmingly powerful, he cannot fight for very long. I don't like it either, but this guy won't fight Aizen until everyone else is down. Finally, he's under the influence of Kyouka Suigetsu, so we're not even sure what good he's going to do. What good is all that power if you can't hit Aizen with it?
    I just find it ridiculous that he had Aizen and co. trapped in a huge ball of fire and couldn't like, attack them while they were inside.
    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think byakuya is nearly as bad as you mention. First of all, I honestly doubt he could care less whether his opponent is a hollow, arrancar, shinigami or a pink polka dotted monkey with a tutu. If fact, the one who brought up the whole racism thing was zomari, byakuya didn't mention it once. He barely talked to the guy. If anything he killed zomari to protect rukia and because zomari threatened him. It is also worth mentioning that when byakuya fights, even though he is reckless and impulsive, he makes remarkably fast and clearheaded decisions.
    No, he's that bad.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/300/04/

    That's a totally racist comment. Zommari only brought up the racism because Byakuya was totally acting that way.

    I certainly hope that there's something more to Byakuya's arrogance, and that he's not just a self-important snob.
    Quote Quote:
    Also worth noting, nemu is technically a thing mayuri made for the very purpose of using her the way he does. On top of that, she won't actually die for some measly massive organ failure and poisoning. For all we know even stabbing her in the head MIGHT not kill her. Even if you consider her emotions, he couldn't possibly care less about what mayuri does to her. She even seems to want to be used in said way for the sake of mayuri.
    Undoubtedly she still feels pain. If anything, the fact that he deliberately made Nemu for the purpose of being his [masochistic?] slave makes me hate him even more, and add "castration with a dull knife" onto the list of humiliating things I want to happen to him before he dies.

    I hate Mayuri even more than Aizen.
    Quote Quote:
    Genryuisai is the leader of the gotei 13, a decision maker. Even though he is the strongest, his job is to lead and should always fight as a last option. Only reason he took a part in the fight against along and the fraccion is that had he not done it the VC would have beyond reasonable doubt died. Given his words back them, it seems as if it should be a matter of pride not to let the guy fight.
    In this kind of fight, pride isn't something you can be concerned about. If you are just fighting by yourself, for yourself like Kaien was against the Hollow that killed his wife, yeah, you can fight for pride there. But the Gotei 13 have the lives of all of Karakura Town in their hands. Their own pride comes second to accomplishing their duty.

    A leader's job isn't to command everyone else, it is to make sure that the job you are tasked with gets done in the best way possible. That means that the leader has to take some of the burden on too.
    Quote Quote:
    As for ukitake fighting lilinet, how could he have possibly known she was a part of primera? He thought she was an incredibly weak hollow with no capacity to make a difference in the war. Dunno, killing lilinet at that point seems outright pointless lol.
    I didn't know that Lilynette was part of the Primera and I still thought he was being a damn idiot. Failing to consider that she could be something important and just assuming she was a random, weak Hollow was, as we saw, a potentially fatal mistake for him.

    And even if Lilynette was weak, he should have killed her and helped Kyouraku fight Starrk. That's certainly not pointless.

    I don't care that Ukitake has a soft spot for children or that Kyouraku didn't want help or something stupid like that. They all had a duty to accomplish there, and a soldier's feelings come second to their duty.

    There is no excuse for a lapse of judgement that incredibly huge. After Mayuri's execution, I want Ukitake demoted, or at least seriously reprimanded.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggy-Ninja View Post
    No, he's that bad.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/300/04/

    That's a totally racist comment. Zommari only brought up the racism because Byakuya was totally acting that way.

    I certainly hope that there's something more to Byakuya's arrogance, and that he's not just a self-important snob.
    Really? Really? I mean, I suppose that would be a good point... if that wasn't exactly the way he treats all his opponents.

    Also:

    Z: Under whose permission are you slaying us Hollows? Is it because we eat humans!? From who did you receive the right to protect those humans then? Nay! You have received naught from no one! Concluding that we Hollows are evil and slaying us is merely due to your conceit and your belief that justice lies in the palm of your hands!!! You are all--

    B: When did I say "as a shinigami I am slaying you"? The only reason I am slaying you, is because you had the audacity to raise your blade against my pride.

    He probably didn't mean the Arrancar comment to be racist, or rather he did but mostly because he wanted to be a complete dick to Zommari. Because he hated him on a personal level.

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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggy-Ninja View Post
    No, he's that bad.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/300/04/

    That's a totally racist comment. Zommari only brought up the racism because Byakuya was totally acting that way.

    I certainly hope that there's something more to Byakuya's arrogance, and that he's not just a self-important snob.

    Undoubtedly she still feels pain. If anything, the fact that he deliberately made Nemu for the purpose of being his [masochistic?] slave makes me hate him even more, and add "castration with a dull knife" onto the list of humiliating things I want to happen to him before he dies.

    I hate Mayuri even more than Aizen.

    In this kind of fight, pride isn't something you can be concerned about. If you are just fighting by yourself, for yourself like Kaien was against the Hollow that killed his wife, yeah, you can fight for pride there. But the Gotei 13 have the lives of all of Karakura Town in their hands. Their own pride comes second to accomplishing their duty.

    A leader's job isn't to command everyone else, it is to make sure that the job you are tasked with gets done in the best way possible. That means that the leader has to take some of the burden on too.

    I didn't know that Lilynette was part of the Primera and I still thought he was being a damn idiot. Failing to consider that she could be something important and just assuming she was a random, weak Hollow was, as we saw, a potentially fatal mistake for him.

    And even if Lilynette was weak, he should have killed her and helped Kyouraku fight Starrk. That's certainly not pointless.

    I don't care that Ukitake has a soft spot for children or that Kyouraku didn't want help or something stupid like that. They all had a duty to accomplish there, and a soldier's feelings come second to their duty.

    There is no excuse for a lapse of judgement that incredibly huge. After Mayuri's execution, I want Ukitake demoted, or at least seriously reprimanded.
    What megax said but also one more thing about byakuya. Isn't he correct in saying that to zomari? In the end, they hadn't even began fighting and he was spouting crap about them being equal. Even if byakuya claimed to be superior at the very least he had the stuff to back it up. In the end, byakuya simply didn't care what in the world zomari was and to top it all from the start zomari was the one saying all the self righteous crap.

    I guess we have a different view on nemu lol. I always saw her as a hybrid between an ordinary worthless toy and someone with actuall feelings. In any case, I don't really mind what mayuri does to her since she wouldn't have it any other way.

    I still don't see how the lilinet thing is that bad. Killing a child is not an easy thing to do at all. Also, ukitake did but into shunsui's fight so there shouldn't be anything for you to complain about that. Too bad WW sneaked up on him.

  20. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Essence's Avatar
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    Re: Hitsugaya: The Only Guy With Any Sense

    Good assumption but a bit biased, Hitsugaya can be very arrogant like the time he fought Halibel he recklessly lets all his move on her and quick to assume she was dead, when she was still alive.

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