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View Poll Results: Shunsui vs. Ichigo

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  • Ichigo (His full hollow form is an unstoppable beast!)

    20 51.28%
  • Shunsui (His game based shikai and backstabbing tactics will prevail)

    19 48.72%
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Thread: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    I am not questioning sitting around, let others fight and strike when the enemy least expects it a tactic, I simply think doing that does not make shunsui "a master tactician" or anything even near that. It's not like shunsui left a exploding kawamiri as a decoy which he intended for the enemy to notice so that by avoiding it a freaking spirit bomb would obliterate him since the most likely place where he would move was were said spirit bomb was.

    Obviously the whole "second coming of aizen" was a joke. I can't even begin to imagine how you associated that with kyoraku being a student of aizen's lol. Anyways, it is a well known fact the only one that can trully be considered a master tactician in bleach is aizen. There are other good ones around -probably- but until now they have been aizen's bitches. Seriously, the guy tricks 4 captains and the ryoka to HM and basically halves SS fighting capacity but shunsui is a master tactician because he sits around and strikes when convenient. Aizen mind rapes people but shunsui is a master tactician because he throws a hat to starrk. Anyways, I don't think shunsui deserves to be called a master tactician because he threw a hat to starrk or sat around while others got beat up. Does shunsui use tactics when fighting? Sure he does, good for him. Do those tactics make him a master tactician? God no. Seriously, if doing what shunsui did makes shunsui a master tactician or even an average one then hinamori would be GOD considering she made a kido net, lured the enemy into it and had it explode. Hitsugaya would be like USSJJJ 123456789 * god considering what he did to luppi -not only he sat around waiting for his chance but he also threw a chunk of heaven to the poor guy-.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Aizen is a manipulator. Just because Shunsui doesn't blow up spirit bombs or do special little techniques or use illusions to fool his enemies doesn't mean he isn't a master tactician. He simply deducted the two vizoreds couldn't beat Stark, took over, then won. A tactician can evaluate a situation then take charge. That's what he did. Throwing his captains cloak off to have all black and strike where it would deal a deadly blow is tactical. Not revealing his abilities all at once is tactical. Striking when needed is tactical.

    You state he's a cheap shot man, well Aizen isn't any better with his cheap shots from behind. Or his cheap tricks with Illusions of himself to stay away from the real strikes. As for Shunsui, before he even released his Shikai he was fighting Stark straight up. Don't see any cheap shot moves there. And even when he did fight stark the only 'cheap-shot' he took was the strike from the shadow. He explained his color game to Stark who had the equal opportunity to win the fight. He didn't win though. Shunsui easily out powered and out fought Stark. Yet Ichigo had trouble against the 6th ranked espada with his Mask on. You really think Ichigo would win because he has a some full hollow form? That's childs play compared to the deadly games Shunsui has. Once he catches him in the color game, that ability of his is gone. Much the same as Stark's wolves, they were gone. And Ichigo, if fighting against Shunsui would be gone.

    Another reason that Shunsui is a master in battle- http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/362/12/ He knew even before Stark showed his hand that his gun could fire more than just ceros. He denied it, but in fact we seen later on that it was in fact true, since he fired wolves with it. If that isn't a tactician i don't know what is.
    Last edited by freshseth83; April 23, 2010 at 02:25 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Raimaru's Avatar
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Ichigo has no real chance of winning against any opponent who has a formidable reiatsu/reiryoku level (captain level & high tier) and has the capability to use his/her head while fighting (which excludes Kenpachi).
    Those people would be capable of thinking of a strategy to deal with SSJ3 Ichigo (or Ichigonator, but I prefer the DBZ reference). Even if the strategy would be running & backstab.

    Actually, there's not much of a reason to explain why normal bankai Ichigo would lose. You might just want to consider the opinion of the people who are deeply disappointed in Ichigo's performance and ask when and why his bankai's abilities disappeared.

    Therefore, my vote goes to Kyouraku. Easy win, except for SSJ3 Ichigo.
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Aizen is a manipulator. Just because Shunsui doesn't blow up spirit bombs or do special little techniques or use illusions to fool his enemies doesn't mean he isn't a master tactician. He simply deducted the two vizoreds couldn't beat Stark, took over, then won. A tactician can evaluate a situation then take charge. That's what he did. Throwing his captains cloak off to have all black and strike where it would deal a deadly blow is tactical. Not revealing his abilities all at once is tactical. Striking when needed is tactical.

    You state he's a cheap shot man, well Aizen isn't any better with his cheap shots from behind. Or his cheap tricks with Illusions of himself to stay away from the real strikes. As for Shunsui, before he even released his Shikai he was fighting Stark straight up. Don't see any cheap shot moves there. And even when he did fight stark the only 'cheap-shot' he took was the strike from the shadow. He explained his color game to Stark who had the equal opportunity to win the fight. He didn't win though. Shunsui easily out powered and out fought Stark. Yet Ichigo had trouble against the 6th ranked espada with his Mask on. You really think Ichigo would win because he has a some full hollow form? That's childs play compared to the deadly games Shunsui has. Once he catches him in the color game, that ability of his is gone. Much the same as Stark's wolves, they were gone. And Ichigo, if fighting against Shunsui would be gone.

    Another reason that Shunsui is a master in battle- http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/362/12/ He knew even before Stark showed his hand that his gun could fire more than just ceros. He denied it, but in fact we seen later on that it was in fact true, since he fired wolves with it. If that isn't a tactician i don't know what is.
    The bold part would be half true if shunsui had any tactic or strategy feats. I don't see him having any significant feats on either area considering he has done nothing but simple stuff. Also, nothing he has done puts him anywhere near aizen in terms of strategy and tactics. As I said before, I don't question shunsui uses tactics, he just does not deserve to be overhyped by being called "a master tactician". Being a master tactician and using tactics are drastically different things. Shunsui has done nothing out of the ordinary tactically. When did I say anything that would suggest that I think ichigo would win though?

    The guns fired ONLY cero, starrk told the truth in that one. Wolves didn't come out of his guns, they came out of that black things starrk had on his back. Go ahead and prove me wrong here, I would love to see a frame with the wolves being shot from the guns though.

    As for whether he deducted the vizards could not win, I would think you are assuming too much. Shunsui simply took a chance, that is all. Whether love could have won against starrk remains in the air considering he never really went bankai and pretty much the same goes for rose.

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  8. #20
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    shunsui is smart but saying good as aizen is a over statment. shunsui is overrated at moment i agree but he has fought clever fight. sneak attacks are clever not wimpy :P rushing head first into a dangerous and maybe stronger enemy will get you killed so he cheats and takes advantage of them distracted. i woundt claim he a master technican.

    the thread should be just ichigonator (hate that word) vs shunsui as they are the two most over hyped characters in bleach ever...still shunusi would beat the feral hollow IMO

  9. #21
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    I think Perfect Hollow form Ichigo would pwn Shunsui. Look at this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v40/c350/9.html

    With just one swipe of his sword he created this much destruction. Also he beat Ulquiorra's 2nd release quickly with one slash from his sword. Does anybody honestly think Shunsui can take a cero from Ichigo, when it blew half of Ulquiorra's body away.

    Ichigo's speed, strength and power should be far above Shunsui while in that form.

  10. #22
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    perfect hollow only beating ulquiorra is not a good gauge on strength as ulquiorra is weaker than most of espadas and unless it appears again ( hope it doesnt) and destroys are stronger enemy i wont be convinced..you get what i mean ?

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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    I think Perfect Hollow form Ichigo would pwn Shunsui. Look at this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v40/c350/9.html
    Keep in mind almost any captain can cause similar levels of destruction. Hitsugaya practically made a room the size of a small building outright explode by merely drawing his still sealed sword. I think it goes without saying that he's nowhere near Ichinator in outright destructive power, particularly when he's sealed. Just destroying buildings isn't remotely impresssive in Bleach, not unless they're made of that reiatsu resistant stuff, which as they previously established Las Noches wasn't.

  12. #24
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by hyst-gundam View Post
    shunsui is smart but saying good as aizen is a over statment. shunsui is overrated at moment i agree but he has fought clever fight. sneak attacks are clever not wimpy :P rushing head first into a dangerous and maybe stronger enemy will get you killed so he cheats and takes advantage of them distracted. i woundt claim he a master technican.

    the thread should be just ichigonator (hate that word) vs shunsui as they are the two most over hyped characters in bleach ever...still shunusi would beat the feral hollow IMO
    how is shunsui overrated? i think you're mistaken. No one is blowing him up to be at god level. Aizen does that to himself, yet without KS he hasn't stood very well against Isshin. Without Isshin even releasing a shikai. People here make Aizen out to be this super duper shinigami that's unbeatable. When in reality he's very vulnerable. He not only has to use Illusions to stay out of harms way but put the hoguyoku inside of himself to further his strength. That doesn't seem to me like the god he claims himself to be. Without the power of illusions, no one would be afraid of taking him on. And Shunsui isn't weak either. To say he's not strong because he doesn't stand and fight is stupid. He stood and fought against Stark before either one of them released. Even Stark said he was strong. Before and after he released. When Stark got beat he said, why do i have to fight someone so strong? Ukitake even commented about Shunsui's strength. Shunsui stated being uncharacteristic is his characteristic trait. So to say he's a cheap shot man is unfounded. He can be any type of fighter he wants. Because he doesn't have a certain trait to his fighting style. Even when he flicked his sword from hand to hand Stark knew he was different because he was surely able to use both his swords with both hands. He doesn't use two hands on one blade the way other fighters do (Zaraki, Ichigo) He uses two swords with one hand. And I'm quite sure he knows a good deal of Kido, even though we haven't seen him use any since he sent chad flying when Shunsui was first introduced.

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  14. #25
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    With just one swipe of his sword he created this much destruction. Also he beat Ulquiorra's 2nd release quickly with one slash from his sword. Does anybody honestly think Shunsui can take a cero from Ichigo, when it blew half of Ulquiorra's body away.
    Also while I'm at it, the most likely conclusion is that Ichigo's cero did absolutely zero damage to Ulquiorra. The half of Ulquiorra's body that was blown away? Was the half that was cut off immediately prior to the point blank Cero the the face. Well sort of, it's pretty close to the exact same angle/body parts missing (And it's even severed at almost a fine edge too in the panel in which he's holding the body up), but Kubo's wound continuity is atrocious, even the blood that spilled all over him vanished for several panels. But it goes without saying a direct cero to the face would not have focused the damage to the bottom half of his body to say the least, hence the most likely conclusion is that it was the sword slash.

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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    why didn't Aizen then cut off Yama's head as well? Why didn't he cut off Toshiro's head? Or Soi-Fon, or Shinji? It's not easy to just lop off your opponents head, no matter how strong you are. If it were, it'd be done by now, and it hasn't. Regardless of what people try to say or come up with, Shunsui isn't so easily fooled. That's why he told Toshiro to stop, but he didn't listen. If they would have regathered, an opportunity would have arisen and they could try again to fight against the Illusions. Aizen did the switch on purpose because he could fool the youngest, most inexperienced captain in the group- Toshiro. Had he tried to replace himself with Ukitake, Shunsui wouldn't have flew off the handle and single handily tried to kill Aizen. Same with Soi-Fon and Omeada. Or Shinji with Hiyori. They each experienced some type of personal set back but it didn't hinder them, only the foolishness and inexperience of Toshiro provided an opening in the 4 captains.

    Shunsui isn't a stupid underling or 3rd seat. he's been captain for as long as anyone weve known, I've said it before. Regardless of whether someone is Royal Guard or not, Yama said ANYONE before and after hasn't come close to the skills of Shunsui and Ukitake. Ukitake even stopped Byakuya against Ichigo in SS! And to say that Shunsui doesn't know Kido is a bad assumption also. He displayed a chant-less kido move against Chad. Just because he doesn't try to show off with level 90+ spells doesn't mean he's not affluent in kido. The stat book would say otherwise.
    1.we are not denying shunsui is clever there a huge differance from tactian to guriella fighing.

    a tactican is some1 like aizen who has planned for every possible thing i.e WW for yamma

    a guriella is someone who ambush and takes advantages of a situition.

    2. uki grabbed byakuyas hand before he released shikai that does not show skill lol.

    3. aizen toys with his enemies he loves to wound them so they watch him win. it what i hate about him just wish he could kill hitsu and do the SS a favor.

    4. just because he pointed and sent chad flying DOESNT mean he good at KIDO.

    5. even without KS aizen has to have power or anyone could beat him with or without KS he needs a huge amount of reitsu to deliver his powerfull blows and speed so saying shunsui could beat him with KS is a huge guess coz aizen is at his shinigami power limit and aizen is smart he could always find a way to mess with someones mind be it nanao or lisa.....



    and hisagi s deathblow was brill dont put him down it was cool what he did

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  17. #27
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Funny how Shunsui threads turn into a discussion of the Stark-Shunsui fight.
    On topic: Shunsui has quite a big chance of winning against normal Ichigo, but Ichigonator absolutely curbs him, he has no chance in defeating that.
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    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    perfect hollow ichigo strength is still unknown we are comparing his strength to murdering a 5th espada ulquiorra. shunsui could beat perfect hollow ichigo shadows, brains and speed his advantages

  19. #29
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    But back on topic. Its true, we do not know about ichinator's strength. But it is clear that he is quite strong. In terms of pure destructive power, he may be better than shunsui. But shunsui to me is more sneaky and calculative and his powers are trickier
    Last edited by Kaiten; April 28, 2010 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #30
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kurosaki Ichigo (any form) vs. Kyouraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    I would think ichigo after bankai training would be alot stronger than ichigo at the beginning with urahara. Certainly he can tap into the power of GT that is as strong or stronger than the one used against urahara. That is why i applaud byakuya for shaking it off.
    And looking at teh panel, at that part, there doesn't seem to be any organs that can hinder starks at the point of impact. Kenpachi, while is a brute, the effect of damaged organs should still play a role even for him. He has been stabbed there multiple times, it didn't seem like it slowed him down
    I would too but then again ichigo has not displayed consistent amounts of power. I would think at that point ichigo tapped into power he would not tap again until at least his bankai training. I would consider kempachi and exception. He literally just shakes off wounds which would kill anyone else. He was even described as a man which would not die no matter how many times you cut him down. I would think internal bleeding would hurt starrk though. My anatomy is not that strong but isn't the point where starrk was stabbed very close to his liver, pancreas, stomach and intestines? Any of these could have been hamed with the stab, I don't see how he could walk off an injury to whichever of those in case of injury....

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