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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
These are two very hyped up characters on this forum, and I'm expecting to see some opinions clash here!
Here are the rules:
-The fight takes place in the forests of Rukongai.
-Ichigo can use anything he's shown so far (yes, including his full hollow transformation that he used against Ulquiorra).
-Shunsui can also use anything he's shown thus far (no bankai since we've not seen it).
So...who would win, and why??
I would say that Shunsui would win, but I'll provide my explanation in a subsequent post.
considering how his shikai KKs color game would requir for Ichigonator to know the freaken rules or LEARN them its a safe bet to think the Ichigonator who has been shown to be a mindless berserker couldn't addept to those type of rules and thus would lose.
look at Stark.
as smart as a fighter he is he figured out how to play and only managed to get 1 good hit in on Shunsui before he died.
so frankly put i'm saying unless Ichigonator brain incresses by 10 fold he wont be able to adept to the rules and thus would be picked apart.
now the thing with the color game is it doesn't matter how strong you are.
if you lose you DIE and i don't see Ichionator winning so basically
Shunsui wins this one sorry Ichigonator fans
I'd like to hear someone's opinion who favors Ichigo for this match.
While Ichigo is in his hollow form, it wouldn't matter what game they played, Ichigo's reiastu would stop Shunsui from doing serious damage. Even if Shunsui does hurt Ichigo, his high speed regeneration will take care of it. Thats even if Shunsui hits him. Ichigo's hollow form, seems to have speed, power, and reiastu well above Shunsui. In this respect, Ichigo's hollow form, may trump even Aizen. Shunsui superior skill won't be enough. Ichigo can end this in one strike.
The problem with the game color is that even if hollow ichigo can't actually reason enough to call a color, shunsui would still be vulnerable when he says a color he is wearing right? If shunsui says black he can injure hollow ichigo but in turn he can also be hurt. Dunno, until we know of the nature of the boost hollow ichigo goes through and what exactly SE was it will be a tough call. I would think hollow ichigo has it in him to win though.
I don't know where people get the idea that hollow ichigo has high-speed regeneration. The only time we saw any type of regeneration was then Ulquiorra broke the mask and he reverted back to his normal form (closing up the hole in his chest).
Moreover, if all it takes is for Shunsui to break the mask and hollow Ichigo will turn back into normal Ichigo, then I say this is an easy win for Shunsui.
The only form of Ichigo that even stands a chance against Shunsui from what we've been seen is his Ichigonator form, and we don't really know how to quantify its power (well, Ichigonator absolutely wrecked Ulquiorra R2, Ulqiorra R2 (and R1) absolutely wrecked Ichigo bankai+mask, so where does that leave us? we have no idea). But since at this point I'm fairly sure Ichigo can't willingly use his ichigonator form at will (as he couldn't call out shirosaki till he was almost dead in SS arc), I'm not sure we should even factor him in.
So my opinion:
Without Ichigonator form included, Shunsui wins.
With Ichigonator included, no freaking idea.
I used to think Ichigo didn't stand much of a chance, but now Ichigo might actually be able to fight Shunsui.
His growth speaks for itself: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/341/08/, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/341/09/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/341/10/, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/341/11/, http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/400-126/9, http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/400-126/15, http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/400-126/16
Ichigo is perceptive, he may be able to fight Shunsui without immediately falling to Shunsui's usual tactics. Also, with his new mask Ichigo should have more speed and power than Shunsui.
Last edited by En Yang Ji; April 17, 2010 at 09:33 PM.
Shunsui frankly. Granted, he hasn't been as stupid as he's been lately, but let's be frank here. Gin took a Bankai Getsuga to the face and suffered only a scratch. Granted he didn't use mask, but in all honesty that's just plain sad at this point. Further, his mask state is now, for some strange reason, acting like the other vizard's mask states in that he can only use it in short bursts as opposed to sticking around in it like prior to the Ulquiorra fight. This, ON TOP OF, it not having anywhere near as much oomph as an eyepatched Kenpachi. And in Ichinator form, while formidable, it's far to easy to knock him out of it, given all it takes and more importantly that it just stands around a majority of the time.
Provided he's not distracted, Kyoraku is evasive as hell, to the point where he's not remotely getting hit by anything of Ichigo's special attacks, not given both the charge time and how easily he was dodging so many mass ceros at once (And Ichinator's cero causes zero damage in the first place point blank, though granted that was possibly for plot purposes).
Granted sword slashes should be enough, but given Kyoraku's tricky as hell, has two of them, and Ichigo can't keep up the advantage of strength with the mask (if he even has it there) for very long I really don't see his chances being that high, baring plot and luck on his part. And since he has plot on his side most of the time... yeah... >>
Last edited by Random101; April 17, 2010 at 10:10 PM.
Kyoraku is too fast, GT wouldn't hit him, he wouldnt need shikai, he stood against stark without it. Only reason he released his shikai is because Stark released his ressureccion. While every other captain had to go bankai and still almost lost, Shunsui goes shikai and owns the strongest espada (even according to ulquiorra) in one strike. That's power. Ichigo doesn't stand a chance, because if it were a real fight, he wouldnt be able to get to his full hollow point. He'd already be dead.
Shunsui is indeed to fast and ichigo has yet to show the speed he has shown in SS. even with that, i doubt he would run laps around shunsui.
Ichinator is strong, but that is relative to someone like ulqui. How does ulqui compare to the other big guns? Is he as strong as halibel, as strong as barragan? We don't know. I frankly still believe ulqui is much weaker than starks. So ichinator beating him doesn't do much for me.
shunsui all way he has the ablity to think and plan an attack perfect hollow form is just a berserk beast which would leave openings..plus i find perfect hollow ichigo the most over rated thing in bleach lately.
gotta agree, shunsui is a master tactician, Ichigo is still young, great power but it's rough, nothing like the finesse that shunsui has. Apart from Yama, and Hoguyoku Aizen and MAYBE Isshin, Shunsui is the best. He's either 2nd or tied for 3rd in all around ability and skill. And we have yet to see his Bankai...
How is shunsui a master tactician? Seriously, the guy sneaks attacks a few people and suddenly he is aizen's second coming? For fucks sake, under that logic I could grab a bat, beat up the ultimate fighting champion when he is sleep by repeatedly hitting his head and claim I am a better fighter than him. I could play golf against tiger woods, hire a kid to move his ball after every shot and claim I am a better golfer than him. Shunsui lacks warrior pride and whatnot -not saying that as a bad thing though-, that does not make him a master tactician nor a tactician of any kind.
In all fairness, the tactics he has used are not above what a 5 year old would do or would think of. How is shunsui a master tactician by throwing a hat or a haori to starrk? How is he a master tactician by sneaking up on starrk or aizen when their attention is elsewhere? I do not question his tactics are effective but they are hardly special or make him a tactician. They just make him sneaky.
Last edited by kkck; April 22, 2010 at 08:27 PM.
that's a tactician right there smart ass. you buy your time and strike when available. you don't go around throwin getsuga tenshous at every opponent. That's wasting your power. Putting on your hollow mask and having it disappear in a matter of seconds or minutes. Shunsui doesn't go around gloating this or that, but does his fighting with hit, run, hit, run. That's the way to fight. Especially if you want to conserve energy and not run out of steam before you even win against one opponent when there was Aizen to take care of. If you think going all out in the first bat is smart then you obviously dont know jack about fighting. Look at boxers. They train to go rounds and rounds. They dont throw out their absolute most in the first round to get weak and tired to lose the fight later on. Shunsui did the same thing. He used tactics, by using his sneaky attacks, and using his cunning. That's tactical right there. He doesn't go around using his best techniques at first but judges his opponent and then adjusts accordingly. You fail to see the logic in his fighting obviously. And what's this about Aizen's second coming? He wasn't trained by Aizen, but by Yama, probably the best fighter there is in soul society. And Aizen was another mere 'child' to Yama. If it weren't for WW, Aizen would be toast like the rest of Yama's opponents. Stating this, Ichigo stands not a chance against Shunsui, nor Aizen. Unless helped from other sources. Shunsui is smart in his fighting, whether you see it or not, that is why I called him a master tactician. If you don't see it, you're logic is flawed.
Last edited by freshseth83; April 22, 2010 at 09:30 PM.