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Thread: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    After reading for the third time first 5 volumes of Claymore manga to my attention came more or less stupid observations/doubts (I wanted to have a round number so some of the points are really forced). I've numbered my observations so if anyone wants to respond to them please DO NOT quote them but write a number to which you're referring to and want to discuss or ridicule. Most of them are stupid (or really stupid) and can be easily countered.

    1) Youma/Zaki knows a lot about claymores even though he's never met one (if he met we wouldn't see him because he would be killed unless HUMAN Zaki traveled). Is it common knowledge that claymores are being produced by mixing youma blood and flesh into human bodies and that only woman can become claymores? Or did it have to do with the org being the source of youma (so youma knew this and that naturally)?

    2) I'm curious if there was a case when someone pretended to be a man in black and took the money after youma were slain. Why didn't claymore take the money? Why did they even wait for the payment? It wouldn't do them any good if some impersonator took advantage of that (unless they wanted to have a pretext to eradicate the village).

    3) Everyone blindly believed Miria who said that the metal from which claymores are being made doesn't exist on the island. However, even Raki's village had a mine (a coal mine but still...). I'm not saying that where there is coal there is metal, I'm only saying that if even in such backwoods like Raki's village there was a mine then Miria couldn't have been sure that there wasn't a mine she didn't know about. The organization didn't need that much of this metal (one deposit would do), they needed like 2-4 swords/year (since Teresa was 182 warrior and it took about 100 years to have these warriors).

    4) How did Clare come in when she was saving Raki from Zaki? Through the roof? Wouldn't it be easier and as sudden to go through the door? (yeah, yeah, I know, it's shounen so it had to be flashy)

    5) At least two times Clare saved a hostage that was used as a shield by a perpetrator (Raki and Galatea). She was also saved from the same spot by Teresa.

    6) Youma without half of his head could still talk (chapter 2). I wonder if Deneve could do that. Heck, maybe Teresa would be alive if Priscilla didn't severe her head from neck but chipped only a piece of her brain.


    7) What was it about with "They're incomplete" (ch. 02, p.17). Did she mant the wings?

    8) Clare liked to chop a hand before she made the final strike. Zaki, one of the youma in the group she encountered (chapter 2), the "female" youma, voracious eater from Rabona (she cut his two hands even), Agatha... Maybe someone remembers other examples. Teresa also used this combo (and Priscilla too). Do you think that it was easier that way or did it have to do with the way Teresa was killed?

    9) Clare had to practice sword-throwing to have such bull's eye (moving target in 3 dimensions and from such distance).

    10) Raki is a giant when compared to his brother (usually between brothers there is not a big difference in height). What was Isley feeding him?

    11) How did Clare know where and when Rubel was waiting on her (chapter 4)? Did he have some sort of beacon with him? Did they emit some characteristic smell (for example Rubel never washed or sth)? Or did they arrange they would meet on 69°24'07"N, 177°33'59"W or maybe 4th tree on the left of the waterfall near XXX village when it's that time of the month.

    12)

    Don't you think that this tavern's sign looks familiar? To me these letters resemble symbols that are on claymore swords.

    13) AFAIK efficient sunglasses weren't made before 20th century and the first sunglasses were made like in 18th-19th century. So how come does Rubel have them (unless they're just glasses painted black which would be possible much earlier)? Is he from the future or what?

    14) 10 million Beras - is that a cost of a claymore (the statue wasn't worth that much of course)? I was thinking that the number Clare gave wasn't random and that it was cost of a claymore that was hidden in the statue.

    15) In one place Rubel said "That includes us Claymores" (chapter 5), i.e. he called himself a claymore and what's more it's been said they don't call themselves that.

    16) I wonder if MiB told Irene that Teresa didn't kill the previous death squad.

    17) Youma eat once a week/two and there was only one case where youma used a weapon (in Rabona, chapter 9)

    18) Sid said "You have an aura of a monster", one of the villagers that was observing Teresa and Priscilla fighting said he felt a chill and village's elder pissed his pants, i.e. human can sense sth

    19) Miria-bitch-sama wanted to report that Clare disobeyed orders and went ahead to slay youma

    20) Teresa was so skilled that she could massacre all bandits and not a single drop of blood was where she was standing
    Last edited by Goral; May 11, 2011 at 04:03 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    1. we don't know how long he (the yoma) has been around/living. Also, we've seen a normal yoma (a normal yoma sacrificing himself for the final test/trial of the trainees with Clare being one of them. This isn't the only time this is done, so there's been a lot of normal yomas doing this) and even an AB (the multi-armed AB in the Paburo mtns) working for the Organization. Also, we've never seen the normal yoma, ABs (excluding the 11 AB Isley sent which I'm going to discuss), nor the AOs (even Luciela left and didn't wipe out the Org) attack the Org. Lastly, why didn't Isley attack the Org, instead attacking Luciela instead? He had Priscilla, why not wipe out the Organization? Ya he sent those 11 ABs at their HQs... but those 11 ABs became the flesh for the first 11 AFs/AEs. Did the Organization actually have a treaty with Isley, and they had requested him to send the 11 ABs to them?

    2. if i remember right, a villager asked teresa that very thing though in a slightly different way. ~"what if we give the money to the wrong person?". there's so many easy and small reasons why this would be such a stupid thing to do. first of all, there's only 10-20 Black Coats in total. So, someone pretending to be them, wouldn't work. second of all, I'm sure that person would be found dead or eaten by yoma. 3rd of all, it could mean the annihilation of the town, though the person may not care about that. 4th of all, I think the Org is just too scary to be messed with, lol. FEAR, even for the most wicked humans. and many other reasons i can't think of or don't want to continue listing.. such as their could be a "proof of identity" of Black Coats too, so the humans would know whom they are, to give the money to.

    3. i have a theory that the swords are actually made from ABs. maybe their skin/hide, teeth, bones, (finger) nails, or even horns. so, this would be a reason miria never found anything. she was looking for a metal material or ore.

    also, the org can have it hidden. a secret forge and/or mine hidden in or around their HQs or where ever, maybe even in the northern land.

    (p.s. did miria actually discover/see with her own eyes the Org creating the normal yomas? or did she just find suggestive evidence of such+Rubel saying/informing her so?)

    (p.s.s. don't forget that Alicia+Beth were a complete secret to all of the Claymores for a long time. Only Rafaela knew about them. Teresa didn't. Priscilla didn't. Irene, Sophia, Noel, and Elda didn't. Rosemary didn't. Also, they kept the Luciela incident hidden as well from their Claymores. Galatea still NEVER found out that 2 ranks below her, Rafaela, whom was Luciela's sister. Even the Teresa+Priscilla incident was kept hidden from the Claymores of Clare's time. Most did NOT even know about Teresa+Priscilla. Jean, Helen, and Deneve had no idea about Clare's tragic past regarding Teresa and Priscilla and her connection to them.)

    4. it's not that it's "shonen", it's that Clare is a.... SHOW-OFF !!!! (lol). well, maybe Clare needed to extra force generated by gravity to slice through the normal yoma's body without releasing her yoki, which would have ruined her surprise/stealth attack. just like Dietrich, with her "Jump Sword".

    5. yes, lots of similarities/symbolism/connections

    6. it is kinda weird.. meh. the hellcats don't die when their head is destroyed (the only being that we know of which survive without a head), or maybe they did die (and i just stupidly assumed they lived because they shot out the small rods. i'll have to go back and look at it, if there's pics of them still being alive/moving without their/its head). though a normal yoma isn't exactly a hellcat.

    for real world reference... after you cut off a shark's head, it can still bite (so don't stick you head in its mouth, lol). though biting isn't the same as talking. then again the head was sliced open above the mouth (and of course the voice box below), so i guess there's no reason why it couldn't talk. though, i don't know enough about anatomy to be sure or not, if this is possible.

    7. if this does has some actual signicance, it is indeed very mysterious. at best i can think of, Clare was comparing them to the only known AB with wings at that time that she knew of (excluding the later insect ABs in Pieta, and the even more later female AB in Lacrao town) .... Priscilla.

    8. this isn't unique. EVERY Claymore, usually chops of the limbs first, before going for the head. it makes sense. if you can't immediately get the head/kill them, then slowly chop of their body parts (limbs) until you can then chop off their head, as they have nothing to use.

    this is common in real life combat, if you can't immediately kill them, disable them first. cut off their limbs, or tear apart their joints/ligaments (jujitsu, i think). kick their legs/knees (like against upper body fighters, such as boxers and such, like seen in UFC), immobolizing them/bringing them to the ground. etc etc.

    there could definately certainly as well be similarity/symbolism with how teresa died... hands then head.

    9. yep, and i think the only other Claymore seen to also do so, is Yuma.

    (Helen's arm extension doesn't count lol, as she's not really throwing her sword, except once against the multi-armed male AB in Paburo mountains... by the way... how did she magically have it back... after having thrown it or it slipped out of her hand i can't tell which.... lol).

    (p.s. i'm wondering if all Claymores have been trained in stealth/ninja/assassination, or if this was special training that only Clare received.... I'm strongly leaning that this is special training for Clare only. I mean we see no other Claymore doing or talking about having been trained in ninja stuff like seen in the Rabona arc with Raki and the cathedral big normal yoma. using the hook and rope thing to get up to the tower, and how Clare said she was trained from being a prostitute to a noblewoman... very curious as it does seem that this training was only done to/for Clare....)

    10. laughs. ya he got big... i'm telling you, Raki is Guts' (from Berserk manga/animes) secret twin brother!!!

    11. who knows. it could be something as simple as set rendezvuos locations all over the island, or something much more "can of worms-ish".

    (personally, i'm more interested in how the Black Coats are able to always find the Claymores and how they always know everything that is going on, on the island. Also, how they seem to have such good relationships with yomas and ABs. I mean Black Coats traveling alone over the island... wouldn't that be great oppertunities for all the roaming normal yomas or ABs to kill them, and what about the simple wild animals about.... very very strange.... i think there's something more to these Black Coats... as in them being inhuman...Claymore-like or even Awakened-like)

    12. that is interesting. it could though merely be that the symbols represent things, and not be actual letters of an alphabet, and so they would work both as the Claymore's insignia and use for that sign.

    13. well... they're doing possible genetic engineering and such too with their creating normal yomas (if they do create them), and don't forget the AFs/AEs too. They definately got technology beyond normal historical medieval technology, lol. Not to mention that yomas themselves and their effects on humans and such, is like a parasitic virus that is causing "horror film/resident evil type" mutations and such, which we know as Claymores/Awakened Beings, Abyssal Ones, AFs/AEs, and the Destroyer.

    14. you could very well be right. delving into the currency of the Claymore world has beeen explored by some people, which whom i think you know of, Goral... on another site... V.V

    15. that is interesting... though it could be the translator's laziness. i mean using the name Claymore is faster. we all use Claymore too, despite that not being a real name for them. convenience sake. I don't see why Rubel, or the Black Coats, or the Claymores calling themselves Claymores. Its much more convenient that saying "the untitled/unnamed warriors of our Organization, which also has no name/title". Claymore is much more convient!

    though, maybe this is a "slippage" (well nothing is a "slippage" by Rubel, as it would be intentional by him), of him revealing that the Black Coats (or just him) isn't human...

    16. she might have been told or might have not. i don't think it really matters anyways. also, if Teresa wanted to, Teresa could have already killed ALL the Claymores, the Black Coats/Organization, the normal yomas, the humans, the ABs, the AOs, the dragons on the continent, and anything else that's living..... hehe.

    "All hail Teresa, Goddess Queen of the Claymore world!"

    17. not much to comment on with this one. though i'd quibble with you over their eating. i think it varies depending on the yoma and/or circumstances and/or not eating up your entire food supply.

    18. whom did Sid/Cid say that to?

    i guess Clare wasn't the only special human in this regard... thanks for ruining this with Clare, lol.

    19. you probably know that this was just to keep up her appearance of a loyal warrior of the Organization, when she actually wasn't. She did have two other Claymores with her, which obviously she couldn't trust worrying that they would report her to the Organization if she said anything "out-of-line".

    20. yes, good observation! whom was the other person... whom "didn't get a drop of blood on her".... IRENE! you're definately right about Teresa actually being superior to them in all skills. hehe.

    also, note how Teresa made such a gruesome blood/death ring around her, as she peacefully/serenely is holding Clare in her arms. very amusing... in the center is peace and serenity, and in a ring around it is a tempest of brutality-death-destruction-blood hehe.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 23, 2010 at 04:55 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    3)
    I'll quote Korinov's and mine response:
    Korinov:
    Quote Originally Posted by Korinov
    Well, we don't know how long Miria has lived. It's possible that she asked the best blacksmiths in the continent about that matter, and as the sentence says: "... any ore even close to what our claymores are made of"... alloys used in weapon crafting are usually made of just two metals (i.e. iron + carbon = steel, copper + tin = bronze). If Miria wasn't able to find nothing similar to the material her claymore was made of, her theory is not insane. Besides, it's quite possible that claymores are made of some adamantium-like metal, and I don't think the Org would risk anyone in their 'giant lab' having access to such a resource (specially with uncontrollable awakened beings wandering around) so I find safe to believe they import it from elsewhere.
    Me:
    There are several materials used for making melee weapons (not only alloys like steel but also titanium or even plastic and in the future maybe even fullerenes) and I have no idea what materials are used in Yagi's world. However, discerning from which metal claymore was made of wouldn't be an easy task (well, it is easy with proper knowledge but in Yagi's world all people besides MiB and claymores are idiots). If you took a blade made from iron and steel (and both would be new) I doubt you would be able to discern the two just by looking at it. Even if some experienced blacksmith would tell you that it's made from a different material it wouldn't automatically mean that the same ore wasn't used (on the island common people might not have known that adding right amount of carbon to iron makes it better or adding copper, manganese, and magnesium to aluminium makes it perfect for replica of katana).
    What's more, they could know the alloy but not the manufacturing process. If they didn't have proper furnace and didn't use the right temperature and pressure the alloy would have completely different properties. That's why for centuries Europeans didn't manage to copy Damascus steel and their swords weren't as good.

    As for not risking giving access to technology to lab rats - I don't see a problem. All they had to do was to take some scientists and workers with them (and they probably did). Clearly they can easily get a hold of claymores since they allow their warriors to make a grave of it and since it is so they would need ships coming quite often which would endanger the laboratory. As for AB, MiB allow Claymores to leave their claymores lying around even though there are youma and AB lurking so clearly they're not afraid of them using it (youma would be too weak anyway, ABs don't need them).
    So anyway I look at it, Miria was jumping to conclusions and everyone believed her too easily IMO (and like I said, "claymores are made from unique material =>youma are made by MiB" is baseless and Miria explicitly said that it's the proof of that).

    6)
    Nixl's response:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixl
    Personally I do not think a claymore could take that type of damage. I would also argue that it is lethal for ABs depending on body type, (Riful vs Alicia, or decentralized body vs solid form). Going from claymore to AB just seems like a wild card in terms of biological goodies (Isley's telekinetic arrows, Luciela's multiple jaws, and Rifuls spaghetti body). For example the group of ABs from Pieta that Riful head-shot with sleek tentacles. Potentially, yoki serves as a rule breaker as in having enough yoki can allow a user to be more and more creative, complex, or flexible with what they can do.

    Yoma despite their powers, appear to be somewhat simple organism. By that I mean flesh that can meld with humans (without rejection) and a nervous system/organs that are not as significant. I think the ability to shapeshift shows just how ill defined their biological organization can be.
    Me:
    Simple as simple but it still died after it's head was cut in half. They also die by cutting their torso in half or even with a simple piercing of a small area on their chest (chapter 2, pages 102-103). This one youma must have been very talkative since female youma (chapter 3, p.138) had her head cut in half just like the youma-elder did but didn't say any last words. I suspect that it was just Yagi's "mistake" (for the lack of better word) and we won't be seeing anything like that.

    8)
    Any other examples of that in Claymore besides Teresa, Clare and Priscilla?

    11)
    It's interesting both ways. Rubel seems to be especially good at finding even cloaked Claymores but I don't get how come Clare knew that Rubel was waiting on her. It could be as simple as him being behind Raki in a distance that only Claymore would be able to see/smell/hear him.

    12
    )
    They would be still letters in that case (just like kanji are). This is the only case AFAIR that we've seen such unique symbols in places other than swords or claymore uniforms.

    14)
    Well, that would be certainly more interesting and logical if it were so.

    15)
    It probably is translator's mistake or Yagi's laziness/sloppiness.

    16)
    I think it does matter. If she knew that Teresa didn't kill previous death squad she could feel safer and she also should have doubts about killing her.

    18)
    He said it to Clare in v.2 ch.6 p.70 (or 23 if you count the first page as the first page of the second chapter).

    Anyway, thanks for reply HegemonKhan.

    Edit:

    @Dj0rel
    1) Even if local blacksmiths used the same ore MiB used (which already is an assumption) it wouldn't mean they were using metal of the same properties. Depending on how it was manufactured their metal could be many times weaker than MiB's (see my Damascus steel analogy). And if MiB used other elements (so rather than one metal they used an alloy) it would also be completely different. Miria assumed here that because she couldn't find swords of the same properties as claymores they're not from this island which is a very big assumption.
    But all this is irrelevant really. We know she was bullshitting them because of what she said. "I couldn't find any ore even close to what our claymores are made of", i.e. she knew exactly what ore were claymores made of. But how could she know it? Unless she saw it with her eyes (which would imply she saw the manufacturing process itself which is very unlikely) I don't see how. Even if she read somewhere the name of the ore there would be nothing that would suggest that people on the island would use the same name for an ore which I doubt MiB would like to share with others. I also doubt she noticed shipments of ore being delivered, like I said, if they had to import it I think they would be more economical about how their warriors use them. To explain it you would have to find excuses but the simplest explanation is - she didn't know it, she assumed it knowing the information Rubel gave to her.
    As for her destroying the swords to check their strength - good idea. The thing is we don't know whether she had enough strength to do it (Clare couldn't destroy Galk's sword). Also it would require quite amount of money to do it and could raise attention. Surely a Claymore buying swords in every possible shop/blacksmith/mill would be sth unusual. So would be disappearing swords (with her abilities she could easily steal one and no one would see a thing). And that still wouldn't prove she was right.

    2) Not even close. She didn't find Irene (otherwise she would know whose hand Clare had) or Abyssals (otherwise she wouldn't be surprised and wouldn't say "this is an abyssal one" while wiping her sweat from her forehead). She also didn't find facilities were male ABs were being made. So you believing her is the highest form of gullibility. / That's assuming that she was as thorough as you think she was and not only was she looking for the steel mills and places with furnaces but also for remote places like the village she saw.
    As for the org being unaware of the existence of these isolated people - pure speculation. Somehow Miria HEARD about them. If she heard about them then why MiB couldn't hear about them? And who did she heard it from? If Rubel then it would make it obvious they knew about them (a spy would know more about the island than the ones who chose it? Very unlikely). As for youma - why would they? Even if they did why would they bother travelling long distances, risking being spotted by Claymore patrols or other ABs when they've had food under their noses.

    3) Like I said before - it wasn't that thorough. As for her sneaking in, even if she did that she forgot to mention more obvious proofs that what she's saying is true. After all this sneaking the only proof she had was her sword and Rubel's words. And she herself used the term "hypothesis", i.e. even after sneaking in she didn't find any proof. As for MiB not bothering hiding their secrets - not really. The secrets they didn't want to be known were rather safe. No one knew about #10, no one knew about Dae's experiments and no one knew about youma (besides Miria and maybe Teresa). And manufacturing process of claymores wasn't something they would like to share with others either.

    4) The point was - why make the shipments more frequent than it was necessary? It would mean they were inviting spies or their enemy army to the island. The fact they don't care what Claymores do with claymores and they don't retrieve them even after they die suggests that they make them on the island (so to not wait a month or more until next shipment gets on the island in case of an emergency).

    5) That's a big assumption. As I've written in point #2, why bother going to some isolated village when they've had food under their noses? Heck, maybe they're not mountain animals...

    6) See #5 and #2.
    Last edited by Goral; January 29, 2011 at 05:15 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    what's kinda interesting is this:

    in almost all medieval/fantasy type manga/anime... you see blacksmiths/forges....

    i don't think there's ever been shown a blacksmith/forge in Claymore manga/anime at all.

    (we know of the mine just outside of Raki's home town, Doga town. there's also I think a weaponry shown in Rabona holy city. But, no blacksmith or forge. let alone other craftsmanships as well. we've seen the inn/taverns, but that's about it)

    (actually, i don't even think we've ever been shown a horse stable either... or farms... for that matter... lol)

    lastly, we know about the mine, but have never seen ANY type of metalworking person or "business/building" in Claymore anime/manga... what good is a mine and whatever metal/mineral it has if there's no depiction of it being converted from raw material in finished product.... aka used ?

    there's swords and armors... but no sword/armor makers... no blacksmiths... no forges... no metalurgy depiction at all....

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    p.s.

    i could have gone into more depth with some of the questions/topics, but i wanted to respond to all of them, so i made my responses as short as i could, as there's quite a few questions/topics you had.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 24, 2010 at 05:10 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    Clarice is in fact one of the big shots in the organization. She's the woman in black to be precise and a female assassin at that. That's why she has colored hair - she's not a real Claymore, only disguised as such (she has contact lenses but didn't want to ruin her hair by dyeing it, plus it made her cover more convenient since she was considered as a failure making people underestimate her and let their guards down). She only acts as if she was weak, in reality she could one shot just about anyone.

    Remember when we first saw her? All Claymores were injured but her. Coincidence? Yeah right. There were projectiles flying everywhere but somehow not even one injured her (she let one touch her clothes so to not arouse suspicion but that's it). What's more, according to ABs she was near them all along and they didn't notice her until they've dealt with everyone else. Only ninja could do that. She did all this because she sensed the ghosts thanks to her keen ninja senses. And with Miata she used another ninja technique - mleko-zasys-no-jutsu (google it if you don't believe me). I mean, Miata could rip ABs with her bare hands but somehow she didn't even scratch Clarice. Coincidence? Of course not. It was another ninja technique - she managed to move her body just enough to not get scratched by her. And her milk has special ninja drug in it - that's how she controls Miata (it's ironic that the pills she was giving Miata weren't a drug). Miata is now addicted to it.

    And with Agatha she used a classic ninja move - feigned retreat (google it too). She only used such tactic to catch Agatha off-guard. She didn't need it though since she was perfectly capable of dodging her every attack but her assassin's habits kicked in. And the only reason she started crying afterwards was because she knew ghosts were coming and it was time to start acting dumb. Now she will kill Galatea without so much as a drop of sweat. Clarice will casually walk to her while she will be sleeping and kill her without any effort. She planned all this from the start. If ghosts or someone else returns she will put the blame on an AB that (according to her) came to Rabona. Since we are at that, the attack on Rabona was also her doing. She gave the order to commence the attack. She was also the reason why Dae did a detour. She's his sensei and he met her to receive further instructions. He had to. He looked at her in the wrong way once and look at his face. He was also the one that brought her to the island. She was this unidentified object (read: ninja - there's no more unidentified object than this Japanese assassin) this square-jaw MiB was talking about.
    Last edited by Goral; July 03, 2012 at 07:19 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    interesting. it's certainly possible, and many of us have been in debate whether there's more to Clarice and she's acting clumsy and inferior (like many powerful protagonists do in manga/anime, such as Vash the Stampede and Abel Nightroad and many others), or if she is truly merely a near-failed Claymore.

    I'm not sure if you're being serious with your post though, laughs, from the way it's written, but it's certainly a possibility, with maybe a little less exageration to it.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  11. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    I was joking here of course. I just couldn't find a thread that would fit better for my post.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    so, you don't think it *could* be possible? ya, it's probably/highly unlikely, but it could be possible, don't you think, or not? Didn't you make a good case for it in your post?

    (at least it seems a good case to me, a bit too exagerrated, a.k.a removing all the "ninja" stuff lol, but possible if to a lesser extent)
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 11, 2010 at 03:27 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  13. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    The only part that made some sense was the part with Agatha (besides the part where I say she feigned her retreat). The rest was a joke that had some true elements in it but overall shouldn't be treated seriously.
    I do think that Clarice is a special Claymore but in a completely different way than I've written here. I'm a follower of Sleepy Speculator's theory where he shows how unique Clarice is. I recommend reading all posts of this user, he always has sth interesting to say.

    I've found BTW an interesting post written by you: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...80#post2771480

    Edit:
    Sleepy Speculator has added sth on that matter:
    http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...25#post3346725
    Last edited by Goral; November 15, 2010 at 02:40 AM. Reason: New post about Clarice

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  15. #10
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member jamie95403's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    Aftermath of Teresa's death

    What do you think happened? What did Clare do or not do? What happened to Irene and the bodies of Sophia and Noel? All of the below is pure speculation.

    A simple example

    Clare clung to Teresa's head overnight. In the morning, she left the plateau. She thought the unconscious Irene was dead.

    Irene might have revived the next day, or the next week. She probably checked the bodies of Sophia and Noel. It was too late to reattach her arm, so she left with her sword, leaving her arm behind.

    Organization "Crime Scene Investigation"

    Perhaps in a few days/weeks, the Org discovered the massacre on the plateau. Perhaps the Org “Eye” or the Retrieval Unit is involved in finding the missing party.

    Whoever was investigating, it might look like a Medieval version of CSI. They would have found the headless torso of Teresa, the bodies of Sophia and Noel, the arm of Irene (sword missing) and the arm of Priscilla, which Noel cut off earlier. Priscilla sword is gone.

    The awakened state of arm would indicate Priscilla awoke. The Org might ignore Priscilla's missing sword. But perhaps not Irene's. The Org might suspect a case of desertion.

    A final question is what became of Teresa's head?

    Eyewitness

    When Clare finally finds Louvre, she is brought back to Org headquarters in the eastern region of Staff. Clare was probably interrogated as part of an “internal investigation.”

    Clare was perhaps interviewed by more than one interrogator. Perhaps the “good cop-bad cop” routine was used.

    Questions for Clare: age, birthplace, family, how she met Teresa, where the two traveled, how they met the Boss and the bandit gang, what happened that night between Teresa and the bandits, where they went after escaping the execution squad, what happened at village inn.

    And most important, a blow-by-blow account of the battle on the plateau. How Priscilla awakened. How she killed Teresa, Sophia, Noel and Irene. And how she came to find Louvre.

    Finally, why does she want to join the Organization?

    Irene

    Still getting used to one arm, she wanders about the wilderness, occasionally visiting villages for the very few necessities that Claymore warriors need. She tries to suppress her Yoki aura, dodging the occasional warrior.
    Irene may have known about the crater valley in southern Lautrec from earlier travels. There, with her sword, she cut enough lumber to construct her log cabin and outlying buildings in front of the small mountain lake.

    For the next several years, she travels to and fro the surrounding forests, till one day, she comes upon a strange sight---a powerful Claymore about to execute a much weaker one....
    Last edited by jamie95403; April 02, 2011 at 01:27 AM.
    All possibilities are on the table...

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    There are a great deal of unanswered questions regarding the events that surround Teresa of the Faint Smile's death. Assuming that Clare gave an accurate debriefing of the accounts, the Organization should have sent individuals to look for two Priscilla and Irene.

    Clare did witness Priscilla cutting down Irene. The organization should have found the scene suspicious/puzzling to only have the bodies of Noel and Sophia. Clare clearly saw Priscilla fly away, absent Irene's body. The Organization sends Raphaela to find the lowly number 47 when she turns missing, yet it doesn't even mount a decent search effort for the then Number 2? Clare's quicksword technique has half the speed and accuracy of Irene's and she manages to cut everyone down with it, including Raphaela. You would think that the organization would have a stronger interest in finding one of their most powerful warriors that has gone missing.

    I'm certain that Yagi omitted the mechanics of these events because it probably didn't add to the emotional aspect of that arc. However, he may reveal bits in later chapter as we learn more about Louvre/Rubel's true intentions and loyalty. I suspect his involvement in the discerning of events to the Organization, since it remained unaware of Priscilla's staggering ability.

    ws
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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  19. #12
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member jamie95403's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    Wickedsmile: Clare's quicksword technique has half the speed and accuracy of Irene's and she manages to cut everyone down with it, including Raphaela. You would think that the organization would have a stronger interest in finding one of their most powerful warriors that has gone missing.

    Answer: If you accept the reality or even “reality” of the Data Books, then the answer is found in Clare's Org assessment. When she returned after the three-month timeskip, she must have debriefed the Org as to what happened, including how she came upon possession of Irene's arm.

    The Org, while finding interesting the power increase of Clare, assesses as impractical the cannibalizing of single-digit warrior body parts to improve the performance of the less powerful.

    There are postings on either this or other forums that delve more deeply into this very issue.

    Wickedsmile: The Organization sends Raphaela to find the lowly number 47 when she turns missing, yet it doesn't even mount a decent search effort for the then Number 2?

    Answer: In Scene 41, Chief Klimt asks Louvre if Clare killed the awakened Ophelia. After Louvre equivocates, Klimt (probably hoping that Clare's a successful half-awakened), sends Hermitage and Galatea to find Clare.

    In this connection, remember Scene 84 in Lacroix, when Louvre tells Cynthia, Uma and Clare: I perfer it that they never find out you're half-awakened. You wouldn't want to become test subjects for human experimentation, would you?

    (note to above quote: does this mean Cynthia and Uma are half-awakened?)

    The situation is different with the awakened Priscilla. Until the Org started to mass-produce the Abyss Feeders, the Org official policy was to hunt Awakened Beings on commission only.

    Wickedsmile: Organization ... remained unaware of Priscilla's staggering ability.

    Answer: Let's begin with Priscilla's Awakened Being stats in Data Book 1:

    Yoki power: EX
    Agility: SSS+
    Strength: SSS
    Invulnerability: S+ (Special Level of Ability)
    Intelligence: SS

    The caveat about the above stats is that this was assessed after she initially awakened and before she started hiding her Yoki aura. As far as I'm aware, there is no Org assessments for the Abyssal Ones: Isley, Riffle or Luciela.

    But another former No. 2 Claymore warrior, Duff, has similar stats to Priscilla's:

    Yoki Power: SSS+
    Agility: S (Special level of ability)
    Strength: SSS+
    Invulnerability: SSS
    Intelligence: C

    I speculate that Priscilla's stats went off the charts sometime between Teresa's death and Extra Scene 3 in Alfons. Before then, her early awakened abilities are consummate with her former rank of No. 2.

    Her Yoki power is EX, one level above Duff's, but nothing unusual. But by the time of Extra Scene 3, perhaps all her stats are EX or beyond.

    Again, we should emphasize that she is hiding her Yoki, so the Org only has the initial assessment made (probably) shortly after Teresa's death. Possibly Priscilla sensed the Org surveillance of her and she went “underground,” hiding her aura.

    ----------------------------------------

    In connection with my previous posting in this thread, I'm trying to create a timeline for Clare from the moment she finds (or is found, according to Hege) Louvre:

    1. In Scene 24, the young Clare's height appears below Louvre's shoulder-level.

    2. In Extra Scene 4, Clare's height appears almost/at Louvre's eye-level.

    3. In Scene 4, Louvre and Clare appear to be about the same height (according to Data Book 1, Clare as a Claymore is 170cm (5ft 6.92in) high.

    I speculate that seven years passed between Scene 24 and when Clare is assigned as warrior No. 47. Why? The admittedly gratuitous idea that Yagi like timeskips in seven year periods (but there's plenty of exceptions to contradict this).

    My question for everyone is how much time elapses between Extra Scene 4 and Scene 1?

    I also wish to add that any debates we see on this forum should be seen as “stress tests,” like the banks use to test their strength :-) Actually, this is a bad analogy and I know nothing about banking stress tests, but it sounds good.

    But by stressing each others Claymore universes with debate and critique, we do strengthen and expand our imaginations!

    ----------------------------------------

    Not wishing to add needlessly to thread, I'm answering Hege's post below:

    Dictionary definition of "debrief": To question to obtain knowledge or intelligence gathered especially on a military mission.

    From my own personal experience, debriefing goes both ways, and can be either oral or written. But even in the case of oral, someone has to eventually write it down. All oral debriefings thus can be seen as preliminary to a written report, regardless of direction of information flow.

    When I was debriefed, the officer had a check-list, verifying that I heard what I was suppose to hear. When I did the debriefing, that same officer recorded what I said for the record. I speculate the same for the Org.

    When Louvre tells the Ghosts in Lacroix that he didn't report Ophelia's oral debriefing concerning Miria's awakening, Louvre would presumedly still have to fill out a written report to the Org for its records. He just left out Miria's awakening.

    When Miria tells Clare "...we'll report this to the higher-ups. They'll decide what to do." (VIZ translation), Miria isn't telling Clare anything she doesn't already know.

    In Section C-01 of Data Book 1 (Mission Flow), step 7 is "Mission Report, Analysis of Accumulated Results."
    Last edited by jamie95403; April 03, 2011 at 03:54 AM.
    All possibilities are on the table...

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  21. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    What's interesting:

    ONLY Miria talks about "Reporting" or "writing a report" to the Organization.

    When Miria first meets Clare:

    Miria: ~"I'll have to report your bad behavior in my report"

    (HK: to who does Miria give these reports to... ???)

    this is jsut something to consider along with whether the Org "de-briefs" their Claymores...

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  23. #14
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    To Goral # 10 in original post. My younger brother is much taller and physically larger than I am, so Raki's size and physique difference isn't really surprising, at least to me. I'm 5' 11" and he's 6' 3". I weigh around 190, he's about 230.

    That and considering that he's been "playing" with a sword and the like against yomi (could this be a logical plural of yoma?) he'd be bound to have a better physique than Zaki as a villager.

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  25. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Obervations and questions after re-reading manga

    What is the difference in age between you two? Maybe you will catch up to him? Also 4 inches isn't that much, that's about 10 cm (10,16 cm to be exact). The difference isn't humongous and Zaki was of about Clare's height (Clare is 170 cm high) and about 20 cm (8 inches) higher than Raki as a kid. But Raki was about 20 cm higher than Renee who was at least 170 cm high. Sure, physical activity might have played a role here but IMO it's a bit much. Although it's all debatable and it's possible, as I've stated at the start most of these points aren't worth much.

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