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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Rubel is the consumate politician, playing both sides against the other. What his end game is, I don't know. Some of HK's theory makes sense, but if you're the boss, why disrupt the whole thing? I can see generating some internal strife in order to keep things stirred up on the one hand, but if he is a spy for the Dragonkin it seems he would be glad that Miria was attempting to overthrow the Org.
I find it odd that on the one hand, Rubel created Miria's mindstate by "revealing" intel that would incite her to rebel and then once she was successful call her "a troublesome fellow" in annoyance. It almost seems that Miria caught him by surprise or he underestimated how persistant she would be.
Afte re-reading the manga i found funny something abouth this page priscilla's hand. Why are they so surprised to find out out there is soemone stronger then Abyssal ones, since I believe they knew that when Priscilla awakned she became zomg strong since she actually killed tereza. Weird that they dont even mention her name in their convo
1. The organization doesn't know the full extent of the Teresa and Priscilla's power, so the organization just scratch Priscilla off as 'another AB'. The single greatest display of yoma energy before Priscilla met up with the Destroyer was when Priscilla used it against Isley. It is likely that there wasn't anyone in the organization to measure that yoma energy release at the time and also the 'false rumor' of Isley beating Priscilla and taking her in as a follower must of made the conclusion that Isley was more powerful then Priscilla for the organization.
2. Priscilla hid herself since Teresa's death. Clare looks about 11 when Teresa died and claymore Clare looks about 21. The ghost were also hiding for 7 years. Priscilla must of stay off everyone's radar for at least 15 years using a very low estimate. She then suddenly showed up. This is also why very few Claymores know about Priscilla or Clare's 'real mission'.
I think up untill now, there was only four or five people that knew of Priscilla's true power. Isley, Riful, Clare, Ilena and maybe Raki.
Last edited by Khorr; May 17, 2011 at 02:11 PM.
it's my understanding that the chapter was telling us that Priscilla was actually never known by the other BCs, not as a Human child, nor as a Trainee Claymore, nor as a Ranked (official/active/mission-doing) Claymore, and nor as an Awakened.
This means that Priscilla was Rubel's *SECRET* Claymore/Awakened, unknown to the other BCs, until Dae tossed Priscilla's arm onto the floor from it being impaled in Raki's back, though they still don't know about Priscilla herself, just that there's this mysteriously "godly powerful" arm from a uber powerful Awakened, that they had no idea about at all.
And thus this means Rubel had orchestrated the entire Priscilla vs Teresa, using Irene to inject Priscilla into the Teresa Execution Squad without the other BCs knowing about it, and his *SECRET* Priscilla, which is suspiciously supported by Rafaela (who was blackmailed to obey Rubel) presumably having executed Irene, a witness to Rubel's scheming or intrigue...
I can go on, with more details of support to this understanding of mine, but that's enough for now and I've already done so, in past posts as well. Though trying to re-find the posts would be difficult, lol.
but many people denounce this understanding of my own.
I've challenged anyone to find a single instance of any BC (excluding Rubel of course) mentioning Priscilla and her very existence, and no one has been able to do so as of yet. I myself do not recall any other BC ever mentioning Priscilla, and am quite confident of it. However, should someone find a BC mentioning about Priscilla, than of course my understanding that Priscilla was completely unknown to the other BCs, is dead wrong.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 17, 2011 at 05:25 PM.
Rubel is the only BC to talk/mention about Priscilla, as can be seen here:
ch 25 pages 12-19
he shows that he knows of Claymore Priscilla vs Teresa, and Priscilla's Awakening (and he teases Clare about not being powerful like Alicia is, of not being able to take on Priscilla, of not being the "hero" to kill Priscilla, and I feel he answered Clare about Priscilla, as if, as *IS*, HE WAS/IS THE LEADER OF THE ORGANIZATION, hehe. I don't feel that his answer to Clare is an answer that a subordinate would say, hehe).
Also, earlier, as can be seen here:
ch 4 pages 9-15
Rubel shows intimate knowledge of Clare+Teresa 's deep relationship, as he teases/warns Clare of not doing the same thing with Raki, that Teresa had done with her.
To me, this suggests that Rubel must have been secretly spying on Teresa+Clare and Teresa vs Priscilla, un-be-known to even Teresa herself.
and than, it must mean that Rubel himself has Teresa's body (taking it for himself before the other BCs could get body, getting rid of the bodies of Noel and Sophia as they have tell-tale wounds of an Awakened, ordering Rafaela to hunt down the missing Irene as she too is a witness to his involvement and his Priscilla's existence, and than tracking down that "Damned human girl who stolen HIS Teresa's head". Rubel than uses little human Clare, as his test subject with Teresa's flesh... *grins*), as if Dae had Teresa's body, he wouldn't be so awed by the mere arm of Priscilla's lol, as Teresa's body has vastly more yoki than just Priscilla's arm does.
hmm, I guess this other scene was ONLY in the anime, doh. Rubel is coming down the inn's stairs and talks to Raki about the "Fate of Claymores", (and if I remember correctly) causing Raki to run after and catch up with Clare as she is heading to Mt. Shire (anime only named mountains), where Clare will kill Elena, but as I said, this scene is only in the anime, and not the manga.
but again, many other people, vehemently don't believe this view that I have.
(I'll let them explain their own views and explain why I am wrong, as I don't want to try to speak for them, and mess up their arguments)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 18, 2011 at 02:06 AM.
Some other observations and questions:
It stroke me that Dauph is Son Goku's clone. He's very powerful, has long range attacks, grows at the full moon (and rest of the phases) and can't tell apart boy from girls unless he gropes them.
Renee is obviously inferior to Galatea but she managed to sense Priscilla, Galatea most likely couldn't (probably because she was too far away from Priscilla), although she could sense Riful from far away and even sensed Miata and Clarice on suppressant pills. Sensing Priscilla - AB with most youki of all living was beyond her abilities at this range. I find it strange.
Miria considers Deneve, Helen, Clare, Cynthia, Tabitha and Yuma as her friends, but does it really look like this ? I mean after 7 years they spent together you would think that relationship between them should be more intimate, instead not much have changed since carnage in Pieta. Deneve and Helen still have their own gang, Yoma, Cynthia and Yuma stand aside and Clare is contained. Miria on the other hand is rather a leader than a <kiss><kiss> friend. If they had trained instead hanging around with one another and chit-chatting then it wouldn't be that surprising.
I wonder if Raki cut youma's arm in chapter 80 to be sure that it's youma? Knowing with certainty who Priscilla meant when she pointed in the crowd would be impossible, IMO.
Do you think it's possible for MiB to create "awakening antidote"? They've managed to create suppressant pills after all, awakening antidote is taking it one step further. Or maybe they could make at least some much stronger version of suppressant pills that could greatly weaken any Claymore or AB and block it's youki or make it to dissipate throughout whole body without making him awaken. They could send it to Miria by using blow pipes or spraying it in gas form or powder form. Creating an anti-suppressant pill could also be useful, any rebellious Claymore after awakening would go on rampage (as it was in Luciella's case, Priscilla's and others).
Also, don't know if some of you are aware that chapter 77th had pages which were changed in tankobon version.
What was interesting to me is the fact that when claymores awaken they actually leave organization, without even any disgust that theyve become something they were fighting with for years. THe only one who actually wanted to die awakening was Ophelia, and after she did that I had such a respect for her even though she an insane one. Surely when claymores awaken there brain mutate or something right? But is this really true. I mean for example I dont think that the AO's have their brains awakend. Might be silly i just find it really odd that all those ex-claymores have no sense of disgust or anything like that
that's a really good question, as we've (almost) never seen a NY, AB, or AO (except for Luciela and 11 of Isley's ABs) attack the Organization and/or its BCs. Why is this?
(yes we know the Org has control over some NYs and ABs, but what about all the other Yomas, why do the Yomas never attack the Org HQs nor the BCs, Isley had Priscilla, yet he chose to attack Luciela instead of the Organization, only using his 11 ABs to delay/distract the Org, as he attacks Luciela. So, why do you think that the Yomas almost never attack the Organization, or the BCs?)
First, I think AB may have hard time finding the location of the organizations base. It's usually isolated and hidden somewhere so people wouldn't know what horrible things they were doing.
Second, ABs tend to forget things after they awake. They only remember the most tramatic events of their previous life, they are more concern about eating guts.
Third, AB tends to not work togather and when they do banned togather they don't work well with each other. That put them in the defensive and on the run most of the time so they have no time to think about going after the organization, they're trying to stay alive from being hunted down and satisfied themselves by eat guts.
Fourth, normal AB going to attack the organization would be suicidal. They are plenty of claymores to defend the bases and if the organization found out that certain AB been picking them off, they'll sent ample force or some single digits to kill it.
Now in the special case why AO's don't go after the organization. Well we know that Riful have no real interest, she's the laid back type that just want to eat, sleep and cuddle with Dauf. Luciela seems to be content being one with nature in the south so to speak.
That leaves only Isley and Priscilla. I can say we can safely eliminate Priscilla from the equation. First, she doesn't take orders from Isley so there is no way he can boss her around. Second, in Priscilla's twisted mind; she still think she's #2 of the organization. Also a her mission haven't changed only herself, she still view finding Teresa and killing her is her priority even after her awakening.
For Isley, there is two reasons. First, he must think that Priscilla likes the south or want to be in the south. Keeping Priscilla happy seems to be one of his goals since he sees her as being superior and pledge allegiance to her.
Second, I think he did asset which region to attack first, west, east, or south but come to the conculsion the south is the easist. To the west we have Riful and Dauf, and Riful seems to be aware of Isley's plans and have started to gather an army of her own. To the east you have the Organization with many Claymores and high rankings single digits unknown to him. I mean he must of thought, what if I go to the east and attack the organization and the #1 and #2 turned out to be somone of Teresa's level since he most likely never seen Alicia or Beth, considering they almost never come out. To the south you only got Luciela in a place where he think Priscilla would like with NO ALLIES. The only problem is, to get to the south he would have to travel through the middle and get caught up by attacks from East and West, so he had to send fodders to deal with them.
So for Isley it ment an equally powerful enemy and prepared army to the west, an army to the east with uknown single digits, or just Luciela to the south. It's simple process of elimination really.
I also like to point one very important thing out. At no point did Isley know if Priscilla would help him at all or not. In fact, I think he counted on the fact she wouldn't lift a finger.
Oh almost forgot about the BC. Well I don't really know why but i think Yagi just want to keep them as a shadow and not really because of anything special with the BC themselves. Other then that the only other reason is maybe because they're hard to find to begin with and/or they only go to places that would be deemed "safe", maybe like after their "eye" scanned the area.
Last edited by Khorr; May 28, 2011 at 10:45 AM.
I got a question for you guys/girls:
Do you think that Claymores are the same as Saiyans in DBZ, in that with each fight, they "magically" become more powerful?
I personally feel that Claymores are indeed just like Saiyans, as the manga constantly supports this, the HAs, Claymores, and/or Ghosts *DO* get "magical" power-ups from/after each battle/fight.
(let me know if you'd like a list of examples to support this judgement of mine)
maybe the Yomas never attack, kill, eat the BCs because they are "yucky" tasting, a.k.a. the BCs are non-human, a.k.a. the BCs are Yoma.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 29, 2011 at 02:37 AM.
Even after all these years (at least 20) both Rubel and Dae travel everywhere by foot. For some reason they don't use horses or carriages. That's another proof of them not aging. Who knows, maybe they're faster than horses (otherwise I wouldn't see a reason to not use them unless we would blame it again on Yagi's laziness or oversight). In case you would like to bring up the cane - don't. We don't know what experiments he performed. If he blew half of his face off I can't imagine what his leg could look like. BTW, it's another indication of their resistance to death. Having half of his face so injured and not be dead is really something. That might have been his experiment to implant himself with youma or sth like that but to survive such operation would also be something. We don't see any Claymores with faces like him and head is always a critical point.
We've seen Humans use horses and even a carriage too, in the chapter that introduces us to Adult Raki and "Midget" Priscilla.
Also, there's Pieta (unless this is anime only - I hate how I get anime and manga content mixed up, argh. Sometimes I wish I never seen the anime due to this), where the Humans/Isley/Raki/Priscilla are on horses.
We've got the mine outside of Doga town too
yet there's ZERO craftsmen shops thus seen, nor any stables as well, the only thing we've seen is an inn and a tavern.
in the 4th extra-special chapter: An Iron Will, with Clare as a Trainee:
that NY looks much more Human, Vampire, or BC like...
yes, the BCs are likely inhuman, as there's too many indicators of them not being mere normal Humans. Their age, their wounds or injuries or damage, their knowledge and technology, their travel speed, their seeming impunity to danger from Humans/NYs/Awakeneds/Claymores, the "Anbu Black Op" BCs saying they could retrieve a Hellcat alive for Dae, their covering clothing, some of them having the same clothing (straps of leather) as the AFs have on (and only have on, hehe). Rimuto's metal collar and metal armor beneath his clothes. Them somehow being able to rank their Claymores so accurately, knowing the great amount and power of Yoki in Priscilla's arm, and etc despite saying how they (or is it Rubel only who says that they) can't sense yoki. etc. etc. etc.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 10, 2011 at 04:14 AM.
There's definitely more to the BCs than what Yagi has divulged to us. From their distorted appearance, especially the larger pronounced veins on their heads to their apparent long life spans, they don't appear to be fully human. When the Ghosts finally defeat the Organization (it will come at a great cost), Yagi will most likely reveal the Organization members true roots. As for their scars, a simpler explanation may exist. During the Luciella awakening incident, the BCs remarked that nearly all the Organization, BCs and Warriors had been killed. It's possible that the surviving BCs bare the consequences of that event. It's even more likely for Dae since he most likely had a direct hand in the Soul Link project and its field trials. We know that the Organization created the Yomas as well. Some of the Yomas could have turned on the BCs and have inflicted the wounds we see. History provides many instances where Governments tested new weapons on its own population. Some of the BCs could have been the test subjects for the Organization.
Personally, I can't wait until Yagi removes Rubel's hat or Orsay/Elmita's hood. Could it be a natural head or is their a Quado (Character from movie Total Recall) hidden underneath?
Last edited by wickedsmile; July 10, 2011 at 03:19 PM.
Or, Rubel removes his glasses... and we see his "Rinnegan or Uchiha" (I, Rubel, am really Madara Uchiha or Sasuke - J/K) or "Sight" (able to see future) eyes