Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 600 by BadKarma
New Reply
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 91

Thread: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    The dynamic vizard duo vs. the dynamic taichou duo. Which pair would win?

    Rules:

    - The fight takes place in the air...somewhere.
    - All four of them can use their shikai (no bankais since none of these 4 have revealed them).
    - Love and Rose can use hollowfication.




    My opinion:

    I believe the vizard's would win this. Based on what I've seen, I don't believe Shunsui and Jushirou to be that much stronger than the rest of the captains (i.e. I think Kenpachi or Byakuya would give either of them a good fight). I do think they were both overhyped (and still are somewhat) simply because they have been captains longer than the rest.

    As far as Love and Rose go, I don't see any reason to believe that as shinigami they are any weaker than the current SS captains. So the mere fact that they can use hollowfication should put them (at least a bit) above the current captains.

    We can also look at the fight against Starrk; a fight in which the four of them partook in. If you ask me Love & Rose were the ones that pushed Starrk to fight all out and use his ace-in-the-hole (the kamikaze wolves). Actually it was Love alone really, since Rose didn't join in until after the wolves came out. Jushirou's shikai is pretty impressive, being able to alter the strength and timing of the attacks it sends back, but even then Starrk was easily able to dodge all of the attacks from both him and Shunsui.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/363/10/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/363/11/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/363/13/


    I've decided not to include a poll for this thread because too many people vote without commenting.

    Edit: Thanks to Gran Maestro for pointing out that I should clarify some of the rules for this matchup. For starters, to make things fair, Ukitake Jushirou will not be plagued by his tuberculosis during this battle. However, posters should take into account the unreliability of Shunsui's shikai when making their decisions/arguments. It is a canon fact that Katen Kyoukotsu will not necessarily be in the mood to perform, and that "she" is the one that chooses the rules to the games.

    Also, let's focus more on the way we think that the fight between the two pairs would play out. I think the fight against Starrk has been discussed enough, and there's obviously very different interpretations by us of that fight anyway.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; March 29, 2010 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Changing the rules

  2. Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #2
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    19,002
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Personally, I think kyoraku is stronger than either love or rose but in turn he would not win against either of them easily. Their mask would make up easily for any difference in speed, strength or stamina. Ukitake would be in trouble here, as far as we know his shikai won't be reflecting anything either love or rose can do with their own shikai. I would think love or rose would win against him.

    The main issue here is how much of a fenomenal combination are ukitake and shunsui. If their teamwork and complementary abilities -whatever that means or they are considering what we have seen does not suggest such a thing exists- are nearly as good as yama mentioned them to be I would have to lean towards ukitake and kyoraku in this one. If it is not, then it is gonna be close.

  4. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vizardichigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Trinidad
    Country
    Trinidad and Tobago
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Shunsui and Ukitake would win this prety handily IMO...Love seems to be strong but Rose was disappointing...Also Shunsui fared better against Starrk while they were both being pushed by him and he wasnt even going all out...So Shunsui IMO is much stronger than both of them. Ukitake with is tb is the only wild card..He could hold Shunusi back, but assuming he is able to battle without getting sick, i assume that he is just as strong as Shunsui...So assuming he is able to fight without being held back with illness, they got this in the bag.
    Thank You Kubo...You have proven once and for all, that Yamamoto Genryuusai is STRONGER THAN AIZEN SOUSUKE despite what the fanboys think

  5. #4
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Galbert-Kun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    294
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Shunsui and Ukitake take this. Ukitake can deflect that Hozuchi attack from love and if Rose tried that Sonata no 11 on Shunui, the Irooni attack would blow it away. Being as Love and Rose are Vizards, I do not believe that they can win against the strongest Gotei captains
    Quote Originally Posted by John Jakes
    Be yourself. Above all, let who you are, what you are, what you believe, shine through every sentence you write, every piece you finish.
    ---------

    http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1691077

  6. #5
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    The Fried Side
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    i would have to say shunsui and ukitake on this one, even if we dont know much about ukitake i think its failrly obvious that he is at least a good swordsman and we know for sure that shunsui has some of the best swordsmanship of any shinigami. love and rose seem to be lacking severly in any kind of katana proficiency, but have shown to be very good with their shikais.

    i dont see the mask boost being to much of a problem for shun and uki either, with two tousand years experience of fighting i think they know how to deal with a simple strength and speed powerup that the mask gives, for them something like that is predictable since they most likely would have already experienced it plenty of times.

    with love and rose we have to assume that they have been fighting as a duo for one hundred years, or just since they became vizards. they dont seem to compliment each other at all, they just have each others back and cut the work load, so to speak. while shunsui and ukitake have been fighting as a duo for two thousand years(even since their academy days), and we already know its been said by yamamoto that they work phenomally well together, we even started to see it with stark.

    love and rose are powerful and love is one of my favorite side characters but, the experience, technique and knowledge of eachother that shunsui and ukitake have is top tier.

  7. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    IMO both Shunsui and Ukitake are individually stronger than Rose & Love combined. Shunsui defeated the primera with his shikai whereas Love & Rose's shikai+masks were not good enough to hold their own against him. Yamamoto implied that Ukitake is on par with Shunsui when he is not sick, so we can expect a similar performance from him. Shunsui and Ukitake are the best graduates of shinigami academy and they survived a brief encounter against Yama which suggests great teamwork which further extends the gap between them and the vizards.

  8. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by vizardichigo View Post
    Shunsui and Ukitake would win this prety handily IMO...Love seems to be strong but Rose was disappointing...Also Shunsui fared better against Starrk while they were both being pushed by him and he wasnt even going all out...So Shunsui IMO is much stronger than both of them. Ukitake with is tb is the only wild card..He could hold Shunusi back, but assuming he is able to battle without getting sick, i assume that he is just as strong as Shunsui...So assuming he is able to fight without being held back with illness, they got this in the bag.
    I don't think we saw very much of Rose though. At least not enough for me to say he's disappointing. We have no idea what kind of abilities his other "sonatas" have, or to what extent he can hypnotize people with his melody.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/366/14/

    Now, as far as Shunsui faring better against Starrk than Love and Rose, I think you're wrong. It should be obvious by now that Shunsui fights by stabbing or slashing his opponents while they're distracted. He attempted this several times on both Starrk and Aizen, but the only one he actually managed to land was the one where Starrk was busy fighting Love and Rose. After that point Starrk's fate was already sealed because Shunsui already had him trapped in his game.

    So please people, spare me that "z0mg he beat starrks in shikai!!!!111" nonsense. I don't see people arguing that Hisagi is stronger than Komamura. Why not? It was the same situation. Hisagi defeated Tousen (arguably much stronger then Starrk) with his shikai while Tousen was distracted. Damn, I guess that makes Hisagi stronger than any captain!

    The fight between Starrk and Shunsui was not a fair 1vs.1 fight, and had it been, there is no doubt that Shunsui would have had to use his bankai. He even told Ukitake he was planning to, because he knew there was no way he'd be able to pull off a sneak attack against Starrk, had Starrk not been distracted. I would also like for someone to explain to exactly how Shunsui would have performed better than Rose and Love with at least 50 kamikaze spirit wolves sent after him.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; March 29, 2010 at 12:27 PM.

  9. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  10. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    Now, as far as Shunsui faring better against Starrk than Love and Rose, I think you're wrong. It should be obvious by now that Shunsui fights by stabbing or slashing his opponents while they're distracted. He attempted this several times on both Starrk and Aizen, but the only one he actually managed to land was the one where Starrk was busy fighting Love and Rose. After that point Starrk's fate was already sealed because Shunsui already had him trapped in his game.
    Shunsui trapped Stark in his game once his sword got in the mood. The shadow game (sneak attack) didn't decide the outcome of the battle, the color game did, so I wouldn't call it an unfair fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    So please people, spare me that "z0mg he beat starrks in shikai!!!!111" nonsense. It was not a fair 1vs.1 fight, and had it been, there is no doubt that Shunsui would have had to use his bankai. He even told Ukitake he was planning to, because he knew there was no way he'd be able to pull off a sneak attack against Starrk, had Starrk not been distracted. I would also like for someone to explain to exactly how Shunsui would have performed better than Rose and Love with at least 50 kamikaze spirit wolves sent after him.
    I don't want to get involved in the wolf discussion again, so I'll cut it short: Stark's wolves were useless against Shunsui, this is the power of KK. Anybody who wants to learn more about my reasoning can search for my previous discussions.

  11. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Shunsui trapped Stark in his game once his sword got in the mood. The shadow game (sneak attack) didn't decide the outcome of the battle, the color game did, so I wouldn't call it an unfair fight.
    He had to get into Starrk's shadow to trigger the color game though. I don't know where you got the idea that Shunsui could just activate iro oni at any moment.


    Quote Quote:
    I don't want to get involved in the wolf discussion again, so I'll cut it short: Stark's wolves were useless against Shunsui, this is the power of KK. Anybody who wants to learn more about my reasoning can search for my previous discussions.
    Correction, Starrk's wolves were useless after he was trapped in the color game, prior to that they would have annihilated Shunsui, and there's no way he would have made it into Starrk's shadow with 50 wolves on him.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; March 29, 2010 at 01:10 PM.

  12. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    He had to get into Starrk's shadow to trigger the color game though. I don't know where you got the idea that Shunsui could just activate iro oni at any moment.
    Why do you think the shadow game triggers the color game? Was it stated in the manga?

  13. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Why do you think the shadow game triggers the color game? Was it stated in the manga?
    Why do you think Shunsui can activate the color game before the shadow game, was is stated in the manga?

  14. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    Why do you think Shunsui can activate the color game before the shadow game, was is stated in the manga?
    There's a difference, you are putting a restriction on KK which wasn't hinted at all. It's like saying "Yama has to use Jokaku Enjo before Ennetsu Jigoku", nobody said otherwise but I'm sure Yamamoto can go straight to Ennetsu Jigoku.

  15. #13
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Country
    Italy
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    The main issue here is how much of a fenomenal combination are ukitake and shunsui. If their teamwork and complementary abilities -whatever that means or they are considering what we have seen does not suggest such a thing exists- are nearly as good as yama mentioned them to be I would have to lean towards ukitake and kyoraku in this one. If it is not, then it is gonna be close.
    This issue is so simple explained and so simply stupid that we shouldn't even talk about it :-D
    Their teamwork did s**t against Stark,and he was a really strong natural ADJUCHAS arrancar.
    I really doubt them having to fight 2 VS 1 against someone stronger then him so it's obvious and natural that they r praised to have such an amazing coperation,their enemy weren't worth to be talked about :-P

    If they fight 2 VS 2 with opponents really worth the fight that we can come back on this topic :-D

    And seriously,,,Shunsui didn't show an impressive speed also.....I like him as a character,but he couldn't land a single hit until STark got his chest pierced by him and even there he still received some hit while he should have been far superior.....

    Also,until proved wrong,there's nothing that says that KK nullify powers,only speculation and hope on the fanboys part.All shikais till now were explained in all their details and casually Shunsui isn't??lol,don't make me laugh!!!
    Last edited by Yans86; March 29, 2010 at 01:51 PM.

  16. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  17. #14
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    There's a difference, you are putting a restriction on KK which wasn't hinted at all. It's like saying "Yama has to use Jokaku Enjo before Ennetsu Jigoku", nobody said otherwise but I'm sure Yamamoto can go straight to Ennetsu Jigoku.
    Yes, there is a difference. Unlike Yamamoto's zanpakutou we already know for a fact that Katen Kyoukotsu is a conditional zanpakutou....which is why it sucks IMO. The only thing we know for certain about it is that #1 it has to be in the mood to play certain games (a huge handicap in itself IMO) #2 KK decides the rules of the games, and #3 the games which he used against Starrk came in a specific order. Could it be possible that Shunsui (or KK, really) could break that order? Yeah...but, it could also be possible that the games have to come in that order.


    If he could have just used iro oni at any moment, then why didn't he (Shunsui) use that first the moment KK was "in the mood"? Why didn't he use it against Aizen? The answer to both questions is because he has no control over the games, KK does. So either way, you're argument that Shunsui could easily deal with Starrk's wolves in a 1 vs. 1 doesn't hold water because he can't just use iro oni whenever he feels like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    This issue is so simple explained and so simply stupid that we shouldn't even talk about it :-D
    Their teamwork did s**t against Stark,and he was a really strong natural adjuchas arrancar.
    I really doubt them having to fight 2 VS 1 against someone stronger then him so it's obvious and natural that they r praised to have such an amazing coperation,their enemy weren't worth to be talked about :-P

    If they fight 2 VS 2 with opponents really worth the fight that we can come back on this topic :-D

    And seriously,,,Shunsui didn't show an impressive speed also.....I like him as a character,but he couldn't land a single hit until STark got his chest pierced by him and even there he still received some hit while he should have been far superior.....

    Also,until proved wrong,there's nothing that says that KK nullify powers,only speculation and hope on the fanboys part.All shikais till now were explained in all their details and casually Shunsui isn't??lol,don't make me laugh!!!
    Yamamoto overrated Ukitake because he had the perfect zanpakutou to counter his flames. That's the only reason why the two of them were able to hold their own against him really. Besides, we all know that old man was holding back against his two beloved pupils. I seriously doubt he wanted to make s'mores out of them.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; March 29, 2010 at 02:02 PM.

  18. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui & Jushirou vs. Rose & Love

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    If he could have just used iro oni at any moment, then why didn't he (Shunsui) use that first the moment KK was "in the mood"?
    He used it right after he stabbed Stark, Shunsui didn't put himself at a disadvantage by not using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    Why didn't he use it against Aizen?
    We already discussed why he didn't use it against Aizen. The discussion starts here, you can read the relevant parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    The answer to both questions is because he has no control over the games, KK does. So either way, you're argument that Shunsui could easily deal with Starrk's wolves in a 1 vs. 1 doesn't hold water because he can't just use iro oni whenever he feels like it.
    The only problem with Shunsui's sword is its mood. If the sword is not in the mood, Shunsui can't defeat the likes of Stark without going bankai. IMO Shunsui chooses the game like every other shinigami who chooses whatever technique they intend to use.

New Reply
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts