The return of Kisame makes sense.

[Gats]

Yeah yesterday I ate some shark sushi and a octopus skewers, it was delicious and....nevermind.


Well...Yesterday, I posted that I will make a thread about the return of Kisame. I know that a lot of you guys don't like how Kishi brought him back, and some of you think his return makes no sense at all or at least was too farfetched (that was my case until a few days ago). Actually, there are no flaws from Kishimoto about this point.

As we know now, the whole plan about switching bodies with Zetsu's clone was planned since the beginning and many of you/us didn't or don't (yet) understand the logic behind this. How did they plan this ? Why waiting Kisame being in the lighting country ? etc. It sounded broken.

The thing that most of us just forgot that...Madara is not God yet, that he doesn't know everything unlike us, his point of view is crucial here. What do I mean ? Let's start from the beginning of KillerBee's case.


At first, Madara sent Sasuke.

It seems that Madara didn't know a thing about KillerBee, since Sasuke had to interrogate a ninja from lighting country himself.

When Sasuke "beat" KillerBee, Zetsu wasn't here to watch, and Madara had faith in Sasuke for this mission...until they stated that this KillerBee was just a tentacle of octopus :

Now it's getting interesting :

Madara wasn't supposed to know that KillerBee escaped on his own and left the village, without telling them directly that Akatsuki tried to catch him. So, from Madara's point of view, Bee was probably in his own village's vigilance. He didn't know that Raikage thought that Bee has been captured by Akatsuki until the summit. He couldn't know. The fact that Raikage summoned a Kage summit about it is evidence FOR MADARA that now it'll be more difficult to capture Bee, he was surely guarded or something.

Also, Madara didn't know where Bee was, even Zetsu. Kisame had to follow the scent of Hachibi to find him himself :

Since Madara didn't have intel about the situation of Bee, the plan he made with Kisame about the body switch makes all sense. That's why he also told the Kages to give him Hachibi and Kyuubi, it wasn't a trick for them, he clearly didn't know that Bee was walking around on his own, that Raikage still have him.

When Kisame arrived at Bee location, with the snow, it's quite safe to assume that they were in Iron country.

What does that mean for Kisame (and Zetsu's clone near or inside him) who didn't know that Bee was really alone ?

It means that : there is a high possibility that some ninjas are near. Even more : Raikage is just near with the summit, so for Kisame it means that Bee was under his direct vigilance and that Raikage would be there quickly if there is trouble. Which was true in the end of the day, even if it was purely luck.

That's why he switched with Zetsu's clone as planned despite his victory, he had to be cautious until the end from what Akatsuki knew about Bee situation.

So, from Akatsuki's point of view, Madara did the right thing, the logicial thing to do. So we can't blame Kishi about it.

PS : I wanted to post more screenshots but it's a little tiresome, since I'm a lazy man I didn't add more picture for the sexyness of my thread.

[Lord Abortion]

The only thing that bothers me about this is the fact that twice now Kisame has fought via clone. If in fact samehada actually prefers bee to Kisame, what does this mean as well?

[Gats]

The only thing that bothers me about this is the fact that twice now Kisame has fought via clone. If in fact samehada actually prefers bee to Kisame, what does this mean as well?

What do you mean ?

The real Kisame fought Bee. The exchange with Zetsu was made in the water, after it the fight was already over, Bee just did a desesperate move but that's all.

Samehada liking Bee is the only surprise for Kisame (but a good one for him).

[benelori]

Yep...it makes sense to me,too...I never even considered it to be wrong, quite the opposite...I was a bit surprised the Kishi would make to powerhouse like Kisame to be sneaky, and full of tactics...of course the tactic wasn't his, but he succeded, so he can be called pretty skilled right...
I like this turn of events a lot, and I hope for the best in the future...cheers

[Lord Abortion]

What do you mean ?

The real Kisame fought Bee. The exchange with Zetsu was made in the water, after it the fight was already over, Bee just did a desesperate move but that's all.

Samehada liking Bee is the only surprise for Kisame (but a good one for him).

Samehada preferring Bee, what implications or effects do you guys think this will have on Kisames infiltration?

It just annoying for clones to be used as a plot device. If there's a really good reason why Kisame had to make the switch to infiltrate the village instead of Zetsu tracking him, it wouldn't bother me so much.

[juUnior]

Yeah, an excellent post about this, especially the thing which ppl tend to forget:

As we know now, the whole plan about switching bodies with Zetsu's clone was planned since the beginning

Yeah, the whole switching was planned from the beginning, even before the fight started. So I don't know why ppl tend to say: "oh, wait, but Kisame could finish Kisame when he get a chance" while forgetting it was already a Zetsu clone and - like you said Gatsuga - Madara's awareness now of KB, Raikage <and the rest of the post>. So once again nice post about this, maybe ppl who read this will stop complaining about the fight of Kisame vs Killer B to be pathetic because Kisame didn't get KB.

[Gats]

Samehada preferring Bee, what implications or effects do you guys think this will have on Kisames infiltration?

It just annoying for clones to be used as a plot device. If there's a really good reason why Kisame had to make the switch to infiltrate the village instead of Zetsu tracking him, it wouldn't bother me so much.

The thing is the switch was not made to INFILTRATE the village specifically, it's just the direct consequence. The switch is here to prevent Kisame to be spotted and killed and to let him find the best moment to take down Bee.

[hakuthehedgehog]

The thing is the switch was not made to INFILTRATE the village specifically, it's just the direct consequence. The switch is here to prevent Kisame to be spotted and killed and to let him find the best moment to take down Bee.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/487/14/
O rly?

[Gats]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/487/14/
O rly?

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/487-75/15

With this version it looks like more a planned consequence than anything. It doesn't change a thing anyway. Higher security for Hachibi means being locked in the village. When Madara made this plan it was even possible that KillerBee was near (or in) the village itself.

[Samui]

Why would Kisame change places with Zetsu when he was winning against Killerbee? He didn't know the Raikage was aroud, he was surprised by it. Kisame doesn't look like the guy who will go according to the plan when he's actually winning, and change places with Zetsu just to be sure, just in case something happened.

Wait, Madara told the Raikage that Killerbee wasn't captured. If he thought the if Killerbee ran way and came back to Kumogakure, why would he tell the Raikage that he wasn't captured?

[Gats]

Why would Kisame change places with Zetsu when he was winning against Killerbee? He didn't know the Raikage was aroud, he was surprised by it. Kisame doesn't look like the guy who will go according to the plan when he's actually winning, and change places with Zetsu just to be sure, just in case something happened.

Wait, Madara told the Raikage that Killerbee wasn't captured. If he thought the if Killerbee ran way and came back to Kumogakure, why would he tell the Raikage that he wasn't captured?

If you read my post, you can see an answer about all of this. Besides Kisame never disobeyed before, when Itachi told him to stop, he did, despite his feelings.

When Madara told the Raikage that bee wasn't captured it was after that Raikage was surprised and told Madara "wtf Bee is still free ?!".

[Darth Executor]

Why would Kisame change places with Zetsu when he was winning against Killerbee?

Because when he's fused he's a sensor and he probably sensed raikage & co coming. And if shi sensed him, he definitely sensed shi the same way ao and fuu sensed karin when she was looking for danzou.

He didn't know the Raikage was aroud, he was surprised by it.

That wasn't kisame, that was zetsu (the switch was made when the water dome was still up) and most likely he faked it so raikage & bee would think he got caught off guard.

Wait, Madara told the Raikage that Killerbee wasn't captured. If he thought the if Killerbee ran way and came back to Kumogakure, why would he tell the Raikage that he wasn't captured?

To calm him down. Raikage was raging and whining about Sasuke and Madara wanted them to listen to his proposal.

[Samui]

^He sensed him like sharks do, right? But sharks' ability to sense others works only in the water, I doubt he has the ability to sense like Shii, or Karin.

No need to fake it, it's not like if he didn't say anything about it they would start to think "hey, he's not surprised! maybe he's some plan!" But whatever.

[Gats]

^He sensed him like sharks do, right? But sharks' ability to sense others works only in the water, I doubt he has the ability to sense like Shii, or Karin.

No need to fake it, it's not like if he didn't say anything about it they would start to think "hey, he's not surprised! maybe he's some plan!" But whatever.

It doesn't matter if Kisame sensed him or not. From what Madara knew about Bee situation when he made the plan, this was the right thing to do whatever the result of the fight. Also Kisame knew that there were the Kage Summit in the country (there is snow, just look) since Madara discussed with him about it, so even if he won, it's more cautious to let Zetsu's clone to carry Bee's body until the Akatsuki hideout.

[Delbi]

Samehada is what gives Kisame his sensing abilities, that's how he found Bee in the first place.

When he fuses, instead of the Samehada showing him where someone is, he just automatically knows.