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Thread: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

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    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Naruto Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Ok, I wanted to make this thread some time ago <as I did a long time ago on pl board>, but then I thought: nah, it doesn't suit my "theory" <if we can call this a theory>. But recently Kishi made uber Edo Tensei to appear in the manga, so I thought: maybe it's not that bad of an idea, and from that we can expect sth similar in the future, made more accurate predictions. Ok, so here's the deal <I won't provide pages/pictures, I think all of us, fans, know about the stuff>:

    <the order is not chronological>
    Part 1:
    - Sharingan: all about this "normal" doujutsu
    - preview of Mangekyou Sharingan and what it is capable of
    - the more Gaara fights, the more sand he used till the end of part 1
    - Kankurou and his "little" puppet skills
    - appearance of 2 Akatsuki members: Itachi which looked normal and Kisame which looked like a mutant
    - sound 5 and their CS2
    - less Uchiha known
    - Edo Tensei with 2/3 bodies to ressurect
    - nice taijutsu skills shown through Lee
    - war in Konoha <Suna and Sound invades Konoha>
    - Sannins reunion
    - Shiki Fuin - taken Oro's hands
    - training to learn control over Kyuubi's chakra under Jiraiya before chuunin exam fights
    - Naruto felt like having a family with Iruka, Jiraiya, team 7 <particularly his "brother", Sasuke>
    - Naruto vs Sasuke at the end of part 1

    Part 2:
    - Sharingan: more "all" about this "normal" doujutsu <I may be biased on this one, but sometimes I got the feeling that even the normal, 3-tomoe Sharingan was boosted when Sasuke was having it>
    - fully shown what Mangekyou Sharingan is capable of, added Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan
    - in Gaara vs DeiDei-chan's fight, Gaara uses even more sand in the fight <excluded a little skirmish with Sasuke in part 2 ; refer to prediction at the end xd>
    - Sasori and his uber puppet skills
    - appearance of all of Akatsuki being more or less normal/mutant
    - all the stuff with Juugo and all the ppl with CS2
    - more Uchiha known
    - Edo Tensei with 5/6 bodies to ressurect
    - nice/awesome taijutsu skills shown through Guy/Raikage
    - shinobi world war <every village vs Akatsuki>
    - team 7 reunion <maybe it's not "bigger", but definitely was more touching>
    - Shiki Fuin - taken half of Kyuubi's chakra
    - training to learn control over Kyuubi's chakra under Killer B before the Shinobi WW 4
    - Naruto actually met his parents: Minato & Kushina
    - Naruto vs Sasuke at the end of part 2, at the end of manga <foreshadowing, interviews with Kishi, it's rather confirmed>

    Believe me, I don't want to say that characters improve here, have development and such <as for example with Gaara's case>, I just want to say that part 2 is all with the stuff from part 1 but just 'bigger' in effect, more powerful <not necessarily with the same ppl to show this, like eg. Oro and Kabuto with their ET <not an alien>>

    I would like to make also predictions about the future events based on this:
    - Gaara will have a fight before the end of the manga and will show even greater waves of sand <I'm almost certain about this>
    - Kankurou/Sasori zombie will show more of puppet skills than it was in the Sasori vs Chiyo/Sakura fight <if that's even possible, but now with Sasori zombie I'm almost certain of that also> The funny thing: Kankurou using the old body of Sasori vs Sasori and his "new" <probably> puppets, lol xD
    - Hyuuga Neji will have a proper fight and will show more skills with Byakugan IF we do not conclude theory with Byakugan/Rinnegan as such <which I didn't, but it's possible in Kishi's case>: Byakugan <part 1 second major doujutsu> = Rinnegan <part 2 second major doujutsu> <yeah, Byakugan is now also present but I think you know the drill>

    What do you guys think about it? What I forgot to mention or what are your predictions with "thinking like that"? xD

    btw. and I'm rather sceptic about less "popular" stuff and ppl, like for example Kiba and showing more Inuzuka family clan techniques <but who knows with the war up ahead - the only problem with me is that it was also possible to show when Pain invaded Konoha, but Kishi didn't, so I have low hopes for sth like that with less popular characters/techniques, IMO : ( >
    btw2. If you wish to comment about which part of Naruto is better, go here:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57793
    Please don't discuss it here.
    Last edited by juUnior; August 05, 2010 at 06:10 AM.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    This sounds more like a case of, if you wanted to connect these things you could but they don't have a crucial link to one another. I think its safe to say that in most stories powers and abilities shown early on in a setting where the people using them are training will get more advanced as the series goes on.

    Such as this page

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/63/03/

    "If this kid masters his chakra use he'll become a monster": Kabuto in reference to Naruto.

    Which essentially has foreshadowed Narutos entire training.

    Training his chakra control for the rasengan that eventually lead up to combining wind with an attack with great destructive abilities, training his chakra control for sage mode which pushes his physical strength to neigh unmatchable limits, now training his chakra "will" in order to control the fox which will further push his strength.
    Last edited by Lord Abortion; April 11, 2010 at 08:34 PM.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Great observations...never in my life could've interpreted the manga in this way...good work...
    U might add that in part 1 there was war in konoha, now it's a world war...
    From this perspective U are right about Gaara, though I'm afraid of the Hyuuga coverage...
    As fights will start in different places I don't see the characters developed further, though it's the greatest chance...but there are other people from the rest of the villages, so I'm waiting for the kages to have awesome matchups, so why not with the Edo Tenseid bodies...that's why Gaara must come in somewhere, he also swore he would protect Naruto which is a good sign for him fighting in the future...cheers

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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Lord Abortion, I know what you're trying to say, but believe me, I don't want to see here the topic as a "development" of characters or situations in the manner shounen provides us, I just want to show that Kishi makes some patterns with his 2 parts of the manga here <because eveyrone knows that development and being stronger is the major part of fighting shounens>
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Abortion
    I think its safe to say that in most stories powers and abilities shown early on in a setting where the people using them are training will get more advanced as the series goes on.
    Yeah, all of us know about this <but not every shounen has 2 parts xd>

    benelori, good catch, jeezez, how I could not mentions war in Konoha > world war respectively in part 1 and part 2 ^^' xD Added.
    Quote Originally Posted by benelori
    but there are other people from the rest of the villages, so I'm waiting for the kages to have awesome matchups, so why not with the Edo Tenseid bodies...
    Yeah, I thought exactly the same thing: bring Edo Tensei to have each body fight each kage <that way Kishi would be able to provide fighting capabilities of each kage.. fully>, bijuus would go for randoms and other ninjas to fight <for example of course, because we don't know how Kishi wants to portray the world war>
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Fair enough. Theres some stuff I wanted to add as well along with my predictions/hopes.

    In part one we saw Jiraiyia and Tsunade vs Orochimaru, Kabuto and Naruto were there as stand by. Tsunade had poisoned Jiraiya and was going to trick Oro so that she could kill him, when Kabuto noticed that her chakra was meant to do so. She tried to kill Oro by herself to take the burden of not having done it before.

    In part two, after Sasuke kills Danzou, Sakura not only puts three of her team mates to sleep but by merit of her poisoned kunai, Naruto is poisoned. She tries to take the burden of getting rid of Sasuke but can't.

    I expect this to repeat itself to a conclusion somewhere down the line.

    I expect to see Naruto perform a rasengan clone.

    I also expect Naruto to show some sort of sealing abilities later on.
    Last edited by Lord Abortion; April 12, 2010 at 11:42 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member niblack89's Avatar
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Part 1 was basic ninja fights but part 2 the fights are using more skill and the use of power. Introducing more into what the shinobi really are.

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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Naruto's development?
    Let see Naruto(with Kyuubi) and Sasuke are similar level --- near the end of part 1.

    Begining of part 2:
    Naruto --2 years training with Sanin Jiraiya.
    Sasuke --2 years training with Sanin Orochimaru.
    When Naruto faced Sasuke, the difference between them is so much, it is shocking and disappointing, Sasuke is so incredible strong compared to Naruto.

    What was Jiraiya doing the 2 years with Naruto? {Sarcastic comment}
    Everyone was expecting a lot of Naruto's growth, and it was anticlimactic or what.
    Then Naruto is told to train more by Sasuke, joke or what?

    In latest Chapter Naruto does not think he can win against Sasuke, after all the training he went through? surely a joke, and this is before he knows Sasuke is getting Itachi's eyes.

    Part 2 of Naruto is good and the action is overall better than part 1. Personally I enjoyed reading about Naruto the character before the end of part 1.

    I mean how can Naruto win against Pain and think of losing against Sasuke?

    Sorry about the rant, its not directed at any one in particular. I just don't like Naruto the character to look bad, and his power up, sometimes seems inconsistent and vague compared to other characters.

    Basically part 1 less inconsistencies.
    Basically part 2 better action only, not story telling and apparent plot holes.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    The observations are really nothing more than just developement. Kishi started out small, and got bigger.

    As far as jutsu go, there are 3 major types. Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu.

    There are also 3 less common types. Kinjutsu, Fuuinjutsu, and Kenjutsu.

    We also have branches of ninjutsu which are Senjutsu, Medical Jutsu, and Puppet Techniques.

    And we even have a fusion of styles in Nintaijutsu.

    All Kishi has done is show us the upper echelons of every category as he expanded the Universe and new characters were introduced. This happens in nearly every work of fiction.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Abortion View Post
    I expect to see Naruto perform a rasengan clone.

    I also expect Naruto to show some sort of sealing abilities later on.
    Pardon me. But WTH is this? A Rasengan Clone! I never thought of that. Does it explode? Itachi's got that covered a la Bunshin Daibakuha or Great Exploding Doppelganger. I should sift more of your thoughts on this before I get lost. But...

    Your idea of a new clone that Naruto could whip out, has spatial recomp that is transformed to resemble a clone. This is "heavy" stuff if we really mull over the jutsu's implications. I mean, it has a swirling pool of chakra fitting and filling a clone's form. And is the puppy articulated!? It sounds incredibly advanced, and this would be... not Naruto repeating something from Part 1 on a bigger scale. Completely new. A prediction, yes, but a little diverse to juUnior's asking, seemingly.

    Well, as I'm on the topic, have you considered the technical demands of the jutsu? Have you done so, whether or not Kishi sets some precedence for making attacks that seem technical, particular, ruled if I may say so; yet, turns out quite a bit of those attacks are open-ended or far from well-ruled or precise... let's say Kishi's jutsu ideas have a lot of potential, but they amount to Pandora's Box, and it's already opened. So I feel inclined to lid the stuff in Kishi's Box 'cause explaining it boggles the sensibility out of me.


    For example, a jutsu elementally or qualitatively recomposed has a nice system ruling what beats or loses to it. But how does Wind beat Lighting? Also, the element system lacks Yin Yang tidbits, there's some clarity about the sixth chakral quality being Yin/Yang that seems missed... or the idea is misinterpreted. And while we may explain for ourselves what technique needs handseals and when it does, I ask, why do we at times have to explain or debate this? Is it really common sense that after a technique's hand seals have been shown, the audience to those hand seals is apt to consider them accounted for when those seals are later expected but not shown? And how does Kuchiyose really work?

    I bet seals and contracts for a bunch of techniques were made to entice us, then leave us be. Bait and switch in narrative form? Kishimoto has made the intricacy of jutsu special for starters, then he let chakra burst from some hands' tenketsu (Chidori), no reminder as to how it does, no display as for what does it. As if the building blocks of molding chakra are refuse in the wind, if jutsu doesn't need to be shown in the making, if jutsu is well established to be taken, end result alone. I wonder if jutsu would be so intriguing if they were, from the manga's beginning just results, mere periods, sort of desserts, main-course-omissive.
    Last edited by ornis; April 14, 2010 at 09:08 AM. Reason: OCD

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    How could u forget a 'bigger' naruto vs sasuke grand finale?

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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Likely, the war between the Alliance and Akatsuki, Fourth Great Ninja War, will amount to the finale or include it. Kicking up the level of action Konoha will see, that finale will be brought to her doorstep, so Sasuke seems to imply by choosing to challenge what Naruto represents. Henceforth, another invasion into Konoha may loom, and as such happens, Konoha receives two invasions in Part 2, versus one during Part 1. This increase in invasions aligns with juUnior's idea of Part 2 being similar but bigger than Part 1.

    Some incident of the Valley of The End (VoTE) being called Konoha's doorstep can arise. Naruto will help counter or prevent an invasion that may try to permeate through VoTE, or Konoha's "entrance". Sasuke's vengeance will be refused. I think that Naruto will not win in the end but Konoha will, as Naruto shows that he favors protecting or supporting his village's endurance, over bringing Sasuke back to the light. Which in turn highlights Sasuke's futility in attempting to challenge what Naruto stands for, causing Sasuke to give up in wake of Naruto's well illustrated tenacity.

    So like the VoTE battle in Part 1, though this finale involves a grander war, something wins and something loses: Sasuke's idealism falls to Naruto's. Konoha's purpose (a share of peace), which may be highlighted again with reference to their prior hermitage, overcomes a lone Uchiha's desire (a share of hate), which might be lit up with comparisons to failed passions of mavericks like Orochimaru, and Madara (assuming he fails). Perhaps Naruto's resistance to Sasuke's aim will be given a twisted explanation, or be rationalized, via Sasuke's regurgitation of Itachi's idea, that being uniquely greater than one's contemporaries makes one misunderstood, condemned as arrogant. In other words, Naruto just can't fathom Sasuke's resolve, and Sasuke may add that such is possible even though Naruto can read Sasuke's mind. I feel I may go off on a tangent by continuing this post...
    Last edited by ornis; April 14, 2010 at 09:13 AM.

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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by ornis View Post
    Pardon me. But WTH is this? A Rasengan Clone! I never thought of that. Does it explode? Itachi's got that covered a la Bunshin Daibakuha or Great Exploding Doppelganger. I should sift more of your thoughts on this before I get lost. But...

    Your idea of a new clone that Naruto could whip out, has spatial recomp that is transformed to resemble a clone. This is "heavy" stuff if we really mull over the jutsu's implications. I mean, it has a swirling pool of chakra fitting and filling a clone's form. And is the puppy articulated!? It sounds incredibly advanced, and this would be... not Naruto repeating something from Part 1 on a bigger scale. Completely new. A prediction, yes, but a little diverse to juUnior's asking, seemingly.

    Well, as I'm on the topic, have you considered the technical demands of the jutsu? Have you done so, whether or not Kishi sets some precedence for making attacks that seem technical, particular, ruled if I may say so; yet, turns out quite a bit of those attacks are open-ended or far from well-ruled or precise... let's say Kishi's jutsu ideas have a lot of potential, but they amount to Pandora's Box, and it's already opened. So I feel inclined to lid the stuff in Kishi's Box 'cause explaining it boggles the sensibility out of me.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    For example, a jutsu elementally or qualitatively recomposed has a nice system ruling what beats or loses to it. But how does Wind beat Lighting? Also, the element system lacks Yin Yang tidbits, there's some clarity about the sixth chakral quality being Yin/Yang that seems missed... or the idea is misinterpreted. And while we may explain for ourselves what technique needs handseals and when it does, I ask, why do we at times have to explain or debate this? Is it really common sense that after a technique's hand seals have been shown, the audience to those hand seals is apt to consider them accounted for when those seals are later expected but not shown? And how does Kuchiyose really work?

    I bet seals and contracts for a bunch of techniques were made to entice us, then leave us be. Bait and switch in narrative form? Kishimoto has made the intricacy of jutsu special for starters, then he let chakra burst from some hands' tenketsu (Chidori), no reminder as to how it does, no display as for what does it. As if the building blocks of molding chakra are refuse in the wind, if jutsu doesn't need to be shown in the making, if jutsu is well established to be taken, end result alone. I wonder if jutsu would be so intriguing if they were, from the manga's beginning just results, mere periods, sort of desserts, main-course-omissive.
    I was thinking something like this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/14/ But backwards. As for the technical aspects of it, a lot of stuff that Kishi does that looks technical is never explained. Naruto is well on his way to mastering how to control chakra on an extensive level, which has been a huge part of his training from the start of the series until now.

    He could pull off a kamikaze clone. A clone that forms the rasengan inside of its own stomach, it wouldn't have to be terribly big as long as it doesn't damage the clone too much, when the clone is pierced, boom, resengan.


    I think the exclusion of hand seals was in order to stream line the comic and to add some value for when hand seals were actually used. For instance, when we see Kakashi using the lightning cutter, does seeing the handseals add anything special to it? Now, when we saw Danzou use those hand signs and special attention was brought to show each and everyone, Kishi was giving everyone a hint, "Danzou has done something".

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    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi
    The observations are really nothing more than just developement. Kishi started out small, and got bigger.
    Ehh, I wrote to not look at it that way, please - in Naruto we have 2 parts, similarities but bigger one can be seen while in other works of fiction it may be "just development" without putting the line to clearly show 2 parts <like the fighting shounen classic: Dragonball, and I'm not talking about anime> Or maybe its just me.. xd

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Abortion
    In part one we saw Jiraiyia and Tsunade vs Orochimaru, Kabuto and Naruto were there as stand by. Tsunade had poisoned Jiraiya and was going to trick Oro so that she could kill him, when Kabuto noticed that her chakra was meant to do so. She tried to kill Oro by herself to take the burden of not having done it before.

    In part two, after Sasuke kills Danzou, Sakura not only puts three of her team mates to sleep but by merit of her poisoned kunai, Naruto is poisoned. She tries to take the burden of getting rid of Sasuke but can't.
    Good one - maybe it wasn't sth "bigger" <in Sannins fight there were big summons > but still, it was present in part 2, like:
    - 3 sannins reunion
    - team 7 reunion
    If call it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher
    How could u forget a 'bigger' naruto vs sasuke grand finale?
    Added xD

    Quote Originally Posted by ornis
    Likely, the war between the Alliance and Akatsuki, Fourth Great Ninja War, will amount to the finale or include it. Kicking up the level of action Konoha will see, that finale will be brought to her doorstep, so Sasuke seems to imply by choosing to challenge what Naruto represents. Henceforth, another invasion into Konoha may loom, and as such happens, Konoha receives two invasions in Part 2, versus one during Part 1. This increase in invasions aligns with juUnior's idea of Part 2 being similar but bigger than Part 1.

    Some incident of the Valley of The End (VoTE) being called Konoha's doorstep can arise. Naruto will help counter or prevent an invasion that may try to permeate through VoTE, or Konoha's "entrance". Sasuke's vengeance will be refused. I think that Naruto will not win in the end but Konoha will, as Naruto shows that he favors protecting or supporting his village's endurance, over bringing Sasuke back to the light. Which in turn highlights Sasuke's futility in attempting to challenge what Naruto stands for, causing Sasuke to give up in wake of Naruto's well illustrated tenacity.

    So like the VoTE battle in Part 1, though this finale involves a grander war, something wins and something loses: Sasuke's idealism falls to Naruto's. Konoha's purpose (a share of peace), which may be highlighted again with reference to their prior hermitage, overcomes a lone Uchiha's desire (a share of hate), which might be lit up with comparisons to failed passions of mavericks like Orochimaru, and Madara (assuming he fails). Perhaps Naruto's resistance to Sasuke's aim will be given a twisted explanation, or be rationalized, via Sasuke's regurgitation of Itachi's idea, that being uniquely greater than one's contemporaries makes one misunderstood, condemned as arrogant. In other words, Naruto just can't fathom Sasuke's resolve, and Sasuke may add that such is possible even though Naruto can read Sasuke's mind. I feel I may go off on a tangent by continuing this post...
    Good idea, and if Sasuke's heading to Konoha after <probably> adjusting himself to EMS, it's high possibility it will be that way. Interesting. <or maybe it will be not after the war, but "in" the war?>

    I wonder if we can call "sth bigger" meeting the jinchuurikis in both parts, mainly the recent event: meeting of Naruto and Killer B. The fact is, Naruto meet a Suna jinchuuriki in part 1, now Naruto meets a Kumo jinchuuriki in part 2. I wonder if there will be real similarities.. Ok, someone can say what I'm babbling about as Naruto is just so hyped up with "octopus" thingy, BUT<!> I really consider that Naruto and KB will have a fight.. or to call it more suitable: sparing with each other after the training of Naruto/mastering Kyuubi. It's another prediction of mine.
    Still, in both parts we have "meetings" of Naruto and other jinchuuriki. Hope that meeting Killer B will be sth "bigger" <actually we can say it will be just by Naruto's mastering of a Kyuubi, maybe..>
    Last edited by juUnior; April 18, 2010 at 08:17 AM.
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sakura Hime's Avatar
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Part 2 is just a "bridge" to Part 3...in my opinion.

    Didn't you guys recognize that time in Part 2 might be just a few months passed?

    In our real life it takes years since this part has been started, that's true.

    But I remember that Kurenai is still pregnant when Jaraiya died. (Makes me tears when I think of him)

    Judge from her very big stomach, the last time we've seen her. She must has been pregnant for 6-7 months at that time...And now she's not given birth yet.

    I remember Kishimoto Sama's interview about the plot. But he didn't say that the Manga will end in part two. He just simply say that Naruto vs Sasuke will probably be the last event.

    I also remember that Kishimoto Sama will write more about Kakashi and Sakura later, which we haven't seen much about them since. So it's likely that this part still need to be filled sooner or later.

    And we've just began to see the preparing of World War, Naruto's training, Kabuto's appearance, ANBU Root's seal disappeared, etc. I doubt that they can end the series in Part 2.

    Other than that, most of us are waiting to see some fights, not only Sasuke vs Naruto, but some other characters. War will also not end in just a short period of time. There are a lot of things to fill up the story.

    So in my opinion there will be Part 3 : The 4th World War.
    Last edited by Sakura Hime; May 03, 2010 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Wrong spelling

  22. #15
    上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Part 2 = 'bigger' part 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura Hime View Post
    Spoiler show
    You are also forgetting (since you relay so much on Kishi's interviews) that Kishi said there will be an interlude training arc before the final events of the manga.
    Quote Quote:
    Naruto's direction is heading in the last direction
    Until then, there will be one more training interlude
    We are now in that final training interlude arc.

    I don't know why people take these interviews so seriously. He never reveals anything major in them. He just says what we already know, with a few hints of what will probably happen. He never hinted on Pain vs Naruto happening, that took 50 chapters or so, and was the best fight in Naruto to date, for example. This is supposed to be Kakashi's year and Shikamaru is supposed to be Naruto's right hand man, Sakura will be more heroine like. We are already getting close to half-year period, all of this is yet to happen in the manga.

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