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Thread: Need help reading a name

  1. #1
    Translator 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Krelian's Avatar
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    Need help reading a name

    As the title suggests, I'm in need of some help reading a name. It's "花柳院" from Loose Relation between Wizard & Apprentice chapter 6 page 31. It's on the top left panel.

    Link: http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/61654/31

    I've checked various sites and the best I've come up with so far is Hanayagiin and Karyuuin but I'd like to get second opinions on it.

    Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Krelian; April 23, 2010 at 03:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cmertb's Avatar
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    Try googling. All hits I found give "Karyuuin" as the pronunciation of this name, but I didn't look far and wide.

  3. #3
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member mote's Avatar
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    The dictionary says "花柳" is a surname and "院" is a first name so I'm guessing it's her full name: "Hanayagi In."

  4. #4
    Translator 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Krelian's Avatar
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    Hm... Thanks for the replies, I guess I'll go with Hanyagi In, but since the author didn't specify its pronunciation with furigana, that's the best guess.

  5. #5
    Translator/Moderator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    I would go with かりゅういん (Karyuin or Karyuuin) like Cmertb. 花柳 is Hanayagi or Karyu(u). 院(いん)is not a common ending of a surname, but in this case, it is. When 院 is used, preceding kanji letters are Onyomi reading style, not Kunyomi. For that reason, かりゅういん is more likely to be the correct one.

    Examples: 三千院(さんぜんいん), 龍光院(りょうこういん) 玉林院(ぎょくりんいん) ... These are names of the temples

    Mote, did any dictionaries say that 院 was the first name? Do you use an online dictionary? (Having In as a first name is far less common than having In at the end of a last name.) Just curious.
    Last edited by mikkih; April 24, 2010 at 06:36 PM.

  6. #6
    Translator 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Krelian's Avatar
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    Thanks for the reply. Going to change it now.

  7. #7
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member mote's Avatar
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    Quote Originally Posted by mikkih View Post
    Mote, did any dictionaries say that 院 was the first name? Do you use an online dictionary? (Having In as a first name is far less common than having In at the end of a last name.) Just curious.
    Yeah, that's what it says here:
    http://jisho.org/words?jap=%E9%99%A2&eng=&dict=enamdic

    I have seen 院 at the end of last names, but I figured I'd just go by what the dictionary said.

  8. #8
    Translator/Moderator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    Thanks for the link, mote. That is very interesting to see "In" is listed for both last and first name. (It did not indicate that In was to be used as a single character.)

    Just like しのみやさんon page 29, they often call someone by Last name+san, not full name+san in Japan. "In" sounds just so off for a girl's first name alone because the kanji in Onyomi, Chinese reading style. To a Japanese native, Karyuuin/Karyuin as a last name sounds more natural. I must say though that I could not find 花柳院 as a last name online, either. My best guess was that 院 was used in contrast to 西園寺Saionji <both 院 and 寺 have similar meaning> +  花柳 was used as the character was sexy <花柳 is associated with Geisha>. Other Japanese natives probably can add more insight to this.

    I was looking for a good logical explanation to the question for non-Japanese natives, but it was difficult to find a good source. Names in manga can be anything, so I will not investigate further.
    Last edited by mikkih; April 26, 2010 at 11:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    You are looking for [Hanayagiin]
    One word, last name.

    There is no first or last name with the single character 「院」.
    There are compound last names with 「院」 (清条院、四十九院)But I have never seen it in a first name.
    usually when 「院」 is seen in a last name, it indicates they are of a "higher class". Living in a huge Japanese old style house, etc... Well thats the stereotype we Japanese have...

    院Are Monasteries、寺Are Temples

    花柳 is associated with <b>kabuki (Japanese style play)</b> not Geisha. It is a style of play.

  10. #10
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    Re: Need help reading a name

    Quote Originally Posted by Asian Cait Sith View Post
    花柳 is associated with <b>kabuki (Japanese style play)</b> not Geisha. It is a style of play.
    Meaning of Karyu(u) ... When you use online Japanese (Kokugo) dictionaries, you will see the meaning of Karyu(u) that I mentioned. You can also see the origin of the word at http://gogen-allguide.com/ka/karyuukai.html. (It used to be more of a prostitute rather than a Geisha.) The word 花柳界 Karyu(u) kai (the world of Geisha) is still used. When people hear KARYU(U), then they (Japanese) might think of Geisha, but think of Japanese dancing when they hear HANAYAGI.

    As see in your examples, words before IN are generally in Onyomi/Chinese style: 清条院 (Seijouin せいじょういん);四十九院 (Shijyuukuin しじゅうくいん). By the way, there is a manga called Bakumatsu renka Karyuu kenshiden 幕末恋華 花柳剣士伝. (Geisha is nothing to do with it though.) 

    Wondered if the same girl (花柳院) shows up in the story with furigana/rubi next time.
    Last edited by mikkih; May 06, 2010 at 09:28 AM.

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