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two possible new discoveries or at least two new things to speculate/discuss/debate/theorize about:
1. chapter 80 page 2-3
in the south-east (lower right) corner is a soldier holding a shield and wearing a football-like barred helmet.
well, his face is darkened (and it's probably just from the shadowing), but also, his face doesn't quite look like it's human to me... in fact...
does his face almost look like a normal yoma's face?
also, the soldier to the right of the shield (against the edge of the page), also has his face to us.... and...
does it too look like a normal yoma's face?
basically, I'm now wondering if the Organization used armored normal yoma's as their "grunt" soldiers against the "grunt" kinsmen soldiers. (and the Awakened male Claymores against the Dragons).
so, does anyone also think that these two faces look like normal yomas and agree with this speculation, or no?
2. chapter 91 page 4
"It's an otherworldly youki, as if originating from some unknown corner of the globe."
otherworldly = continent? Dragon?
originating from some unknown corner of the globe = continent? Dragon?
chapter 92 page 29
"It is a youki I have most certainly never sensed before. Different certainly from that of Riful or Isley, but so large."
youki I have most certainly never sensed before = yoki of a Dragon?
Different certainly from that of Riful or Isley, but so large = yoki of a Dragon?
chapter 92 page 30
"We have detected a new large youki in the vicinity of the Abyssal One Riful."
detected a new large youki = (this by itself doesn't suggest in any way being the yoki of a Dragon, however due to all the other comments, this is part of this suspicion) = yoki of a Dragon?
chapter 92 page 31
"Something new and vast has just been born. An unknown entity awakens."
Something new and vast has just been born = (this by itself doesn't suggest in any way being the yoki of a Dragon, however due to all the other comments + the following sentence seen below, this is part of this suspicion) = Dragon?
An unknown entity awakens = Dragon?
alright, this really sounds like the Destroyer is actually a (just created) Dragon, which have been only on the continent, until now....
anyone agree or not?
1: I may agree, they don't look human like, but that can be just the art style used. Look this:
He is Human, yet he looks more like yoma than man here. See? it could be just the art style. But nice theory (^_^) it could be true.
2: No, the destroyer is something new, something:"Something new and vast has just been born. An unknown entity awakens." as you quoted. It has nothing to do with the "Dragon Kin". Dragon Kin is , for now, completely irrelevant for the story. In the future, they may or not be more important but that's it.
wow... in looking at your links about Rig.... you made me just think of something else....
(i don't know if you're watching/watched full metal alchemist or FMA: Brotherhood, but the humunculi Envy pretended to be a human to start the Isbalan war/massacre with amtemis whatever it called/spelled)
is Rig actually a (normal) yoma (whom has been using the yoki suppression pills? well, we don't know if the pills existed prior to Clare's "Era", but whatever) and the Organization sent him to pretend to be a human bandit, in order to get Teresa to kill human bandits, so that the Org then had an excuse to execute Teresa?
your point about my second possbility of the Dragon = the Destroyer (Awakening of a fusion of two Claymores/Awakeneds), doesn't in any way disprove/counter the manga links and their content that I provided.
you simply said that you don't agree. very hollow. try to support your disagreement with content and substance.
to make your disagreement more substantive, why don't you try to discount/counter/explain how all the links and their content isn't refering to the continent and dragons.....
explain how the Destroyer is not a dragon (which were only found on the continent), instead of simply saying you disagree. what makes you disagree. why do you think that the Destroyer is not a (created) Dragon? etc etc
i mean, I can't even respond as you gave no reasons for me to try to debate against...
heck... just thought of more stuff.. lol
in fact... could all of the (normal) yoma attacks on human families, been intentionally "orchestrated/commanded/ordered" by the Organization, in order to make that desired human girl (or originally boy) an orphan, which they can then get to make into a Claymore ?
the Organization SENT (normal) yomas to kill the families of prospective daughters with the potential of being powerful Claymores......
I'm really starting to like this chain of ideas... about the Organization... using the (normal) yomas.....
0. the Org actually created the (normal) yomas in the first place.
1. the Org used (normal) yomas as their armored soldiers against the Dragons' kinsmen soldiers as the Awakeneds and Dragons battled each other, on the continent.
2. the Org used the (normal) yomas to make the island's humans dependant on the Org and their Claymores.
3. the Org used the (normal) yomas' flesh to make Claymores
4. the Org used the (normal) yomas to train their trainee Claymores.
5. the Org used the (normal) yomas to make orphaned promising (originally boys) girls/daughters that would be sent to them, which they then made them into Claymores.
6. the Org used the (normal) yomas to pretend to be the human bandit Rig to get Teresa to kill humans, so that the Org then had an excuse to execute Teresa.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 25, 2010 at 02:47 PM.
Rig is a human. Why I think this? Look:
Those are yoma pretending to be humans. Now this:
When killed, they revert to yoma (they corpses do)
Now, here is Rig corpse
and a lot more corpses
All humans. Also, the yoki suppression pills probably did exist. And organization ,as far as we know, didn't want Teresa dead.
Now for the destroyer; You didn't show ANY evidence that prove that Destroyer is a Dragon Kin. In fact, all the pages that you provide:
show that destroyer is just something new, something unknown, NOT in any way a Dragon Kin
and this link you provided:
Check the page before that, a.k.a.
Clare says: "Wait...I can sense it. Something far weaker than an ordinary soldier. (page 3) It's an otherworldly youki, as if originating from some unknown corner of the globe. This must be Rafaela's (page 4) "
and the sentence It's an otherworldly youki, as if originating from some unknown corner of the globe. means that is to weak, like it's coming from afar.
An answer to your edit:
1: could be.
2, 3, 4, 5: Very possible. in fact 98% possible.
6: As stated above, as far as we know, organization didn't have any reason to get rid of Teresa.
Last edited by Yancha; April 25, 2010 at 02:59 PM.
a counter point about Rig:
when the 24 Claymores took the (only halved) yoki suppression pills in Pieta, when they (well only 7) went unconscious, the (halved) pills' effect remained, so the ABs and Isley and Priscilla thought that they were dead.
so my thinking is that, if Rig is on the yoki suppression pills, they may prevent him from reverting into his normal yoma body/form upon his death.
(i do agree that Rig being a normal yoma is still a bit "out there" despite how I have been giving some support and having some belief that he might be a normal yoma)
i have to disagree with you about the Org not wanting Teresa dead...
1. the Org doesn't give a #$%#$ about humans... do you really think the Org cares if their Claymores kill humans? when they themselves have so #%#$ up the poor humans and their lives on the island...
so why did Teresa's killing of BAD/CRIMINAL (rape, pillage, murder) humans (the bandits) in order to protect (actually mainly/solely Clare) the human villagers of Rokut town? Shouldn't Teresa have been a hero and awarded a medal?
no... instead they decree she is to be executed....
2. they realized Teresa was a threat to them. I also have a theory that they realized Priscilla was a threat as well to them (too powerful/dangerous and unstable). So, my theory is that now that they had the excuse to execute teresa they used the opportunity to get possibly "kill two birds with one stone". By having Teresa and Priscilla fight each other. Whatever the outcome it was a "win win" for the Org. If Teresa kills Priscilla, then they no longer have the threat of Priscilla. If Priscilla kills Teresa, then they no longer have the threat of Teresa. If they kill each other, then both threats are elimated.
Except... Priscilla's awakening... wasn't a "win" for the Organization... they didn't plan on this ever occuring... oops... (though Teresa was killed at least for them)
3. they wanted to kill Teresa so bad... that they were willing to sacrifice Priscilla, Irene, Sophia, and Noel !!!
they were willing to sacrifice their ranks 1-4 to kill Teresa !!!
Priscilla = rank 1
Irene = rank 2
Sophia = rank 3
Noel = rank 4
(for some reason traitor Teresa still had her rank 1 status, so instead they gave priscilla rank 2, which demoted Irene to rank 3, sophia to rank 4, and noel to rank 5, and elda to rank 6)
ya but what is "new" to the island? the Dragons! what is "otherworldly" to the island? the continent. so the Destroyer could be a (created) Dragon. (Dragons may actually simply be the Awakening of the fusion of two Claymores/Awakeneds, which is what the Destroyer is)
Clare says: "Wait...I can sense it. Something far weaker than an ordinary soldier"
in my (as best as I can) understanding...
this is refering to the Destroyer's mind/soul entity that was (somehow) created deep within Rafaela's head and the recesses of her mind from her failed "life transfer link" * with her sister Luciela which resulted in an incomplete half-merging of their bodies.
*i have a theory that Rafaela wanted to save (revert) Luciela back into a Claymore/HA, but the yoma half inside Luciela was too powerful (Luciela begins to rant and beg for Rafaela to help her take over the island... sadly the yoma half still had control over Luciela), so Rafaela came up with an ingenious idea... KILL Luciela (Rafaela does indeed kill Luciela by crushing her in her arms). This would kill the yoma half inside Luciela, undoing her Awakening. Then, Rafaela, WOW, tries to do her "life transfer link". Rafaela tries to sacrifice her own life, by transfering her life into Luciela, to revive Luciela back to life from the dead. But, as we know.. this went horribly wrong....
Luciela was not brought back to life. she is DEAD. inside rafaela+Luciela 's half merged heads is Rafaela's mind and this newly (somehow) created Destroyer's mind. There is NO Luciela's mind. Luciela is still and now permantly dead.
however, the "hellcats" (and maybe Beth's infected awakening too) are clearly from Luciela's Awakened fox-cat body.
The Destroyer is clearly (as the manga states it) Rafaela's (desired) Awakened body, the Twin Goddesses of Love, Clare's not the only one whom feels a connection to them. Though, I'd argue it is an incomplete or flawed form... which we call the Destroyer instead... hehe.
Rafaela's mind/soul/life was NOT consumed/devoured/destroyed by the Destroyer, as she had transfered herself into Clare's head. However, Rafaela's body was obviously destroyed, as it became the Destroyer. Fortunately, Rafaela's mind had been able to reach Clare's mind, and encourage her to break her mental link, so that Clare's mind and body weren't consumed/destroyed by the Destroyer's mind and awakening body. Rafaela then just in time transfered her mind/soul/life into Clare's head, "escaping" with Clare (inside Clare's head, lol. poor Clare!).
It's an otherworldly youki, as if originating from some unknown corner of the globe.
I'm still maintaining that this refers to being a Dragon's. however it came to be that this entity of the Destroyer's mind/soul was created inside Rafaela's head, I believe it is the same entity of a Dragon's mind/soul. that the Destroyer and its mind is that of a Dragon's
.....except that, due to Rafaela's desire/"interest" in the Twin Goddesses of Love, it produced such a body/form, instead of that of the Dragon's form/body....
my theory on why Teresa+Priscilla were a threat to the Organization:
1. Both Teresa and Priscilla were/are uber powerful, dangerous, risky, and thus threats, should they decide to turn on the Organization.
(however, the Organization probably didn't realize or think, at this time, that either of them were actually more powerful then the Abyssal Ones... oops.. both Teresa and Priscilla are far more powerful then the Abyssal Ones, lol)
2. Teresa was NOT obedient or loyal to the Organization. Teresa was free-willed, doing as she pleased, like running away multiple times as a trainee from the Organization, or giving her famous speech of her "FREEDOM of choice" to Rig about the Ironclad Rule.
Yes, upon becoming a ranked (active-official) Claymore, Teresa followed orders and did her missions.
However, I am going to speculate that Teresa merely CHOSE to do the missions of killing yomas that they gave to her (maybe for the humans' sake or just to keep herself busy/distracted from her miserable life-before she had met Clare). She wasn't actually doing so to obey them.
So, the Organization wanted to get rid of this "nightmare" called Teresa. Teresa could turn on them at any time.
Also, Teresa knew their dark secrets/affairs... like how she told the humans that if they didn't pay, that the Org would send yomas to wipe out their town. Then, she boldly, without fear, spoke this same theory of hers to Orsay, whom could be argued reacted/behaved/responded as if Teresa was actually correct about it...
Also as well, Teresa was ready to die to the ring of unknown Claymores, but in asking Orsay what he would do with Clare and how he answered, Teresa knew that Orsay was going to kill Clare. This prompted Teresa to keep living, because she knew she had to in order to keep Clare safe and alive, protecting her from the Organization, as Clare knew the truth about the Rokut-bandits incident...
3. Priscilla, I theorize/speculate, was also a threat to the Organization.
Priscilla WAS VERY LOYAL/OBEDIENT to the Org (unlike teresa). Also, Priscilla was also uber powerful (like Teresa). So, what makes/made Priscilla a threat to the Org?
However, Priscilla was VERY UN-STABLE! This is what made her a threat to the Organization.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 25, 2010 at 04:26 PM.