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View Poll Results: Who is the true kido master?

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26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Tessai (he was the Kidou corps captain, after all. Hachi was his VC)

    23 88.46%
  • Hachi (his hollow mask has allowed him to eclipse his former capt.)

    3 11.54%
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Thread: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    So here we have a face off between the two big kidou experts. Which one of the two would win, and why?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DEATHBOTT's Avatar
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    i just have a feeling that tessai is gonna be revealed to be able to do some amazing shit.

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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Well, so far we've seen Tessai just do hadou 88, and the two forbidden techniques (teleportation of a scene, and freezing time), as well as a weaksauce version of bakudou 99 to hold Ichigo down during his hollowification/shinigamification. Hachi has done tons of Bakudou, and tons of barriers too, so we've definitely seen more of Hachi. He also has healing powers. So from what we've seen, Hachi is probably more impressive.

    That said, I do think that if Tessai was head of kidou corps. he would be one of the strongest kidou users out there, so my gut tells me that he would win.
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    tessai hands down ex leader of kido corp and was hachi superior and i assume that maybe the mask increase power but not sure if it increases kido strength could be wrong.

  5. #5
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Dunno about this one.... Tessai has shown to be perhaps more combat oriented that hachi IMHO. He has shown a reasonably powered hado and took the explosion from ichigo's hollowification with virtually no damage. On the other hand, hachi has been specifically refered to as NOT being fit for combat. His kido consists of barriers and defensive techniques along with healing. His orihime-ish powers also have virtually no offensive capacities even though apparently the barriers made by it cannot be broken by shinigami kido. He also has a hollow mask which should give him quite a powerboost -even though he has virtually no firepower. Worth noting, tessai has performed consecutive chantless 99 bakudo's while in the TBPA hachi performed 1 99 bakudo and showed signs of it wearing him down.

    I would think tessai has vastly superior combat capacities in comparison to hachi but in turn if hachi's barriers are immune to shinigami kido then perhaps he has a chance of sealing tessai away.

    On another vaguely related note, hachi strikes me as the type to pack a mean cero.

  6. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Dunno about this one.... Tessai has shown to be perhaps more combat oriented that hachi IMHO. He has shown a reasonably powered hado and took the explosion from ichigo's hollowification with virtually no damage. On the other hand, hachi has been specifically refered to as NOT being fit for combat. His kido consists of barriers and defensive techniques along with healing. His orihime-ish powers also have virtually no offensive capacities even though apparently the barriers made by it cannot be broken by shinigami kido. He also has a hollow mask which should give him quite a powerboost -even though he has virtually no firepower. Worth noting, tessai has performed consecutive chantless 99 bakudo's while in the TBPA hachi performed 1 99 bakudo and showed signs of it wearing him down.

    I would think tessai has vastly superior combat capacities in comparison to hachi but in turn if hachi's barriers are immune to shinigami kido then perhaps he has a chance of sealing tessai away.

    On another vaguely related note, hachi strikes me as the type to pack a mean cero.
    I'm not sure about this one either. For starters, even though Hachi was Tessai's subordinate 100 years earlier, I don't think there was such a great difference in abilities between the two, the way there is between gotei 13 captains and their VCs. Normally I would say that Hachi would now be stronger because of the hollow mask, but it's still sort of unclear if a hollow mask will boost the strength of kido spells. If the hollow mask does indeed boost Hachi's kidou and barriers, then I would give this match to him. If it turns out the the mask only affects physical strength and speed, then I would say that Tessai wins because Hachi's not going to benefit a whole lot from additional speed or strength.

  7. #7
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Tessai wins. The difference between a captain and a VC is clear. Even with mask they are still trash compared to a captain. Tessai seems to focus on destructive spells while hacchi uses barriers.

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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Tessai wins. The difference between a captain and a VC is clear. Even with mask they are still trash compared to a captain. Tessai seems to focus on destructive spells while hacchi uses barriers.
    i agree but the deciding factor in this is
    1. does the mask increase kido strength
    2. can hachi use that sword of his

    but i agree tessai does seem more towards offence kido while hachi is defensive

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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    1. I think the mask is overrated. The vizard's mask seems to me to focus more on defense. But about speed and strength, it is not really a big factor
    2. Can u see hachi holding a sword and attacking? lol

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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    if hachi can put a barrier to defend than quickly attack with his sword be dangerous really..but cant imagine the lil marshmallow using a sword.

    the mask does increase some aspects alot than people assume but as tessai was his boss i cant see the gap in power been closed coz of it

  11. #11
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    1. LOL look at the pink barney charge with a sword haha. i don't think hacchi is very fast. Tessai seems more agile. As i have said b4, the difference between a VC and a captain is HUGE!!

    2. The reason i think the mask is overrated b/c i have heard people say things from the mask is better than bankai or that it increases your strength by 5x and all this other bull. I think the boost from the mask is quite small

  12. #12
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    1. LOL look at the pink barney charge with a sword haha. i don't think hacchi is very fast. Tessai seems more agile. As i have said b4, the difference between a VC and a captain is HUGE!!

    2. The reason i think the mask is overrated b/c i have heard people say things from the mask is better than bankai or that it increases your strength by 5x and all this other bull. I think the boost from the mask is quite small
    I think the main issue here is to what statement this applies. IF shinigami kido is really useless against hachi's barriers then tessai would not have a chance of breaking them with his own kido. He'd have to rely either of sheer brute strength or some other raw power and even that'd be doubtful in this case. Hachi's barrier being orihime-ish in many ways give me the impression of having a certain, say, depth to them which shinigami kido altogether lacks and most likely altogether cannot achieve. Other than that, given tessai's physical built and what little we have seen of his offensive capacities and resilience, it is pretty clear tessai is altogether built to be a much better fighter than hachi. As for how the mask would affect hachi and his kido, I would think it does help. Putting on a mask provides a boost in reiatsu as we have seen a few times. That means hachi would get more reiatsu to put into his barriers which makes them more powerful.

    As for the vizard's mask, I don't consider it to be as powerful as the hollowification the espada went through but I also doubt the boost is small or negligible. For one thing, hiyori and liza who were former VCs were able to keep up with harribel. I doubt such a thing would be possible without a considerable boost. Mashiro went from kicking WW to get severely beaten up just because the mask was removed.

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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    ^^ That is hacchi's own assessment which i will take with a grain of salt. Being able to block out all shinigami kido doesn't seem believable to me. if that is true, is hacchi going to put a barrier around himself and just stay there? He has to attack to win. Mask or not, a VC is not close to their captain counterpart

    As for the mask, the mask don't impress me much. The most it has done is provided some resistance. The boost in speed and power is only seen most prevalent w/ ichigo. And hiyori didn't do anything against halibel if i can remember. And lisa had a short skirmish, and after a battle w/ hitsu, i am sure she must be worn out pretty much. As for mashiro, her hits didn't even hurt WW. It was her speed that gave her the edge

  14. #14
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Galbert-Kun's Avatar
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Was hachigeneral the only one that voted for Hachi?

    In all seriousness, Tessai would win. Hachi has grown strong, with his mask and hax 4 prong bakudo techniques, but as everyone has said, Tessai was a former captain. The captain will always be superior to the subordinate. Always
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    Re: Ushouda Hachigen vs. Tsukabishi Tessai

    Quote Originally Posted by glaura19 View Post
    Was hachigeneral the only one that voted for Hachi?

    In all seriousness, Tessai would win. Hachi has grown strong, with his mask and hax 4 prong bakudo techniques, but as everyone has said, Tessai was a former captain. The captain will always be superior to the subordinate. Always
    That is what i have been saying!! People assume that with mask, a VC can be stronger than their captain. Nothing even stated so. LOL at people thinking any of teh VC vizards have any chance against a captain.

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