Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/22/14 - 9/28/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
New Reply
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 58

Thread: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Atemu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Country
    Norway
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    First i would like to point out that kyuubi is naruto's speciality. I can't see other characters being capable having that beast inside them nor use it wether they can controll it or not. Yamato pointed out that naruto must be special to be able to withstand kyuubi chakra at some degree.

    I think the theory is that if the will of the bijuu is released than the bijuu transformation will occur, but if the will is filtered than no V1 or V2. The host only uses the chakra. Its only sufficient to only release the chakra when compining with sage chakra. Ofcourse if naruto can change the will of the fox, then he may also learn to release it and transform just like bee.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic59545_2.gif

  2. #32
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    It is impossible to troll Yondaime. Get over it.
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,820
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Thats not suppose to happen with the Kyuubi. At least not if Naruto wants any real control over the Kyuubi. So if Naruto does really get complete control over the Kyuubi it will only be control over its power. And there should not be any interaction between the two because the Kyuubi's mind will be blocked away from Naruto. So in theory Naruto should get all of the power and none of the attitude.
    I guess we can see it differently. I see it that when Naruto goes to take the chakra, although he is not taking "kyuubi's mind" along with it if he has proper control, it doesn't mean that Kyuubi cannot express himself before or while the chakra is being taken. Kyuubi would just be mouthing off, it wouldn't be like Kyuubi's "will" is going along for the ride. Nothing in the explanation by the toads makes it seem like Kyuubi will be forever silenced. It just makes it seem like Naruto will learn to take the chakra and not have the mind (will) of the fox travel with the chakra he has taken.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

  3. Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked this post
  4. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    You are just sugar coating this, none of what you said makes naruto any less of a leach who stopped using his own power in any plausible way

    Kyubi is not a thing, it is a living thing -whether it is or isn't a murderous asshole is besides the point-. He has his own inherent power and the manga is heading in a direction where naruto will subdue the kyubi to be able to use its power to his liking. Kyubi is not a KG not should it be compared to one because of many of the obvious differences. Kyubi is a creature completely alien to naruto, it was forced on him. At least sharingan is an ability developed through training and only overly talented and hard working ninja like sasuke and itachi can hope to advance it to the level they did. Even if naruto did fully made the fox into his bitch, using its power won't make it naruto's. The power would still belong to the fox, naruto won't be be using his own power he would merely be taking that of the fox. It is true not anyone is capable of properly leaching power of a biju though, only exceptional people can do it -that does not change the fact that they do not fight with their own power though-.
    As long as Sasuke doesn't get to use the EMS, then. After all, he's just leeching off Itachi's power, right?

  5. #34
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,858
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaX View Post
    As long as Sasuke doesn't get to use the EMS, then. After all, he's just leeching off Itachi's power, right?
    That is off topic lol. Anyways, itachi is not alive, sasuke is literally not sucking power from anyone. All he got from EMS is a MS that won't cost him his eyesight and apparently a new technique. EMS is 100% sasuke's power -even though it took an eye transplant- while kyubi's power will always be 100% kyubi's power, not naruto.

  6. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    That is off topic lol.
    It's a comparison to Naruto, so not its not.

    lol

    Quote Quote:
    Anyways, itachi is not alive, sasuke is literally not sucking power from anyone.
    Ah, so if in subjugating the Kyūbi's will, Naruto kills it, then it's OK?

    Quote Quote:
    All he got from EMS is a MS that won't cost him his eyesight and apparently a new technique. EMS is 100% sasuke's power -even though it took an eye transplant-
    Right. It required Itachi's power.

    Quote Quote:
    while kyubi's power will always be 100% kyubi's power, not naruto.
    Unless Kyūbi dies in the process. Because then all Naruto will have is an immensely greater chakra pool, and possibly a new technique. And if the Kyūbi is dead, then Naruto will not literally be sucking power from anyone.

  7. #36
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,858
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaX View Post
    It's a comparison to Naruto, so not its not.

    lol



    Ah, so if in subjugating the Kyūbi's will, Naruto kills it, then it's OK?



    Right. It required Itachi's power.



    Unless Kyūbi dies in the process. Because then all Naruto will have is an immensely greater chakra pool, and possibly a new technique. And if the Kyūbi is dead, then Naruto will not literally be sucking power from anyone.
    Kyubi is not gonna die lol. Naruto using kyubi is kinda like having a bodyguard. He can use it but it is not his strength. Not even remotely similar to what any KG user does -including sharingan, MS and EMS-. At least in Sasuke's case itachi won't randomly pop out to take out the enemy and have sasuke claim he did it alone. Don't put talented KG users-regardless of how hax- in the same league as leachers.

  8. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  9. #37
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Your mom's bed
    Country
    Portugal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,580
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Kyubi is not gonna die lol. Naruto using kyubi is kinda like having a bodyguard. He can use it but it is not his strength. Not even remotely similar to what any KG user does -including sharingan, MS and EMS-. At least in Sasuke's case itachi won't randomly pop out to take out the enemy and have sasuke claim he did it alone. Don't put talented KG users-regardless of how hax- in the same league as leachers.
    You're not getting it at all.

    If Naruto masters the Kyuubi, he is taking the Kyuubi's power as his own.

    He isn't a leech, he is a conquerer that takes he spoils of defeating and humiliating his oponent.
    It's like disarming someone and then using their sword, is said swordsman a leacher? Of course not.
    If you go by that logic, every shinigami in bleach is a leacher that leaches power from his zanpakuto (except kenpaichi, who is a wannabe leacher).
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
    LMFAO

  10. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  11. #38
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog
    You're not getting it at all.


    If Naruto masters the Kyuubi, he is taking the Kyuubi's power as his own.

    He isn't a leech, he is a conquerer that takes he spoils of defeating and humiliating his oponent.
    It's like disarming someone and then using their sword, is said swordsman a leacher? Of course not.
    If you go by that logic, every shinigami in bleach is a leacher that leaches power from his zanpakuto (except kenpaichi, who is a wannabe leacher).
    Nope, Naruto's a leech, and it's this fact that is the major reason for my dislike of him. See, there's no amount of "blood, sweat, or tears" that Naruto can shed inorder to make the Kyuubi's power his own. We've been told how he can gain his power: by taking the chakra alone, without the mental energy. Not by beating him in a arm wrestling match or through enduring body-destroying training regimens. Not from Mortal Kombat either (he's fighting his own hatred. And in an illusion no less, lmao!).

    Naruto simply needs to learn "a trick" to get all the spoils of the Kyuubi. No hard work needed. Its rediculous. The most hilarious part? His mastery of Sage Mode required no such "blood, sweat, and tears" either. You know what Naruto did to learn to summon natural energy? He sat still.

    That's right. He sat still. Now, he balanced the chakra he had with the natural energy he was absorbing, sure. But the point stands that his hard work came down to how long he can ignore boredom. That's all fine and dandy, I'm used to it. It's just, if he's gonna get a new power that does the same thing as Kyuubi, atleast make it legitimately his power. But Sage Mode comes down to him relying on borrowed power still, just as he had his entire life. Now, instead of Kyuubi giving him a "get out of battle free" card, nature is doing it.

    So, if it comes down to Naruto "borrowing" energy from nature, then "taking" energy from a Kyuubi he didn't subdue/defeat, then mixing it together to become Super Freeloader, who the hell here will be impressed? And most importantly, why?

    EDIT: and Shinigami's zanpakuto is the manifestation of THEIR inner spirit. It's literally their soul manifested. Not the same thing. If you wanted to compare it to Bleach, compare it to Ichigo and the other Vaizards with their inner hollows. For the record, I dislike Ichigo exponentially more than I do Naruto.
    Last edited by ninjabot; May 08, 2010 at 08:37 PM.

  12. #39
    ... 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Norway
    Posts
    23,061
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    This is not a thread to discuss Sasuke and his EMS powers in. Keep this to Kyuubi Sage discussion like the OP instructed. Camparisons of EMS being an outside power source compared to Kyuubi is fine, but not in depth.

  13. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  14. #40
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Your mom's bed
    Country
    Portugal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,580
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Nope, Naruto's a leech, and it's this fact that is the major reason for my dislike of him. See, there's no amount of "blood, sweat, or tears" that Naruto can shed inorder to make the Kyuubi's power his own. We've been told how he can gain his power: by taking the chakra alone, without the mental energy. Not by beating him in a arm wrestling match or through enduring body-destroying training regimens. Not from Mortal Kombat either (he's fighting his own hatred. And in an illusion no less, lmao!).

    Naruto simply needs to learn "a trick" to get all the spoils of the Kyuubi. No hard work needed. Its rediculous. The most hilarious part? His mastery of Sage Mode required no such "blood, sweat, and tears" either. You know what Naruto did to learn to summon natural energy? He sat still.

    That's right. He sat still. Now, he balanced the chakra he had with the natural energy he was absorbing, sure. But the point stands that his hard work came down to how long he can ignore boredom. That's all fine and dandy, I'm used to it. It's just, if he's gonna get a new power that does the same thing as Kyuubi, atleast make it legitimately his power. But Sage Mode comes down to him relying on borrowed power still, just as he had his entire life. Now, instead of Kyuubi giving him a "get out of battle free" card, nature is doing it.

    So, if it comes down to Naruto "borrowing" energy from nature, then "taking" energy from a Kyuubi he didn't subdue/defeat, then mixing it together to become Super Freeloader, who the hell here will be impressed? And most importantly, why?

    EDIT: and Shinigami's zanpakuto is the manifestation of THEIR inner spirit. It's literally their soul manifested. Not the same thing. If you wanted to compare it to Bleach, compare it to Ichigo and the other Vaizards with their inner hollows. For the record, I dislike Ichigo exponentially more than I do Naruto.
    Naruto's learning the Natural energy was not just sitting still.
    Look how bad he was beaten for hours in order to learn how to take Natural energy with the oil.

    Naruto NEEDS to subdue the Kyuubi, not using a trick to take the Kyuubi's will out of the chakra, he has to overpower the Kyuubi's mind with his own, which is by no means an easy thing to do, otherwise Naruto would've done it by now, it is like overpowering an extremely powerful mind control over your body, that has the risk of death or losing lifespan.

    If Jinchuriki control was as easy as you say it was, every Jinchuriki in history would be able to control their bijuus perfectly, but most of them can't.
    So far, only 2 did, and they were hailed as genius.

    If you disregard mental training, then by your logic, someone who cheats and puts all of the subjects in a tiny piece of paper to have a good grade is more deservant of having tha grade other than a student who sits in the classroom listening and studies only by sitting down and reading the book.
    Last edited by hakuthehedgehog; May 09, 2010 at 02:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
    LMFAO

  15. #41
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaX
    Naruto NEEDS to subdue the Kyuubi, not using a trick to take the Kyuubi's will out of the chakra, he has to overpower the Kyuubi's mind with his own, which is by no means an easy thing to do, otherwise Naruto would've done it by now, it is like overpowering an extremely powerful mind control over your body, that has the risk of death or losing lifespan.
    No, he doesn't. The Kyuubi latches on to the hatred in your heart and uses it to force it's will over you. Subduing the Kyuubi comes down to removing the hatred in your heart. Not fighting it tooth and nail. And sure as hell not overpowering it. Just like the Sage training, all Naruto needs to do is sit still and become a blank slate. Such HARD training. Oh sure, he got clubbed in the head every now and then. Hardly as dangerous or lethal as fighting the 8 tails jinchuuriki or a whole room fool of Kage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaX
    If Jinchuriki control was as easy as you say it was, every Jinchuriki in history would be able to control their bijuus perfectly, but most of them can't.
    So far, only 2 did, and they were hailed as genius.
    It's bijuu control, not jinchuuriki control. Jinchuuriki are the ones holding the beasts within them. And they can't control their bijuu perfectly because not all bijuu are the same, not all jinchuuriki are the same, and quite possibly, not all of them have had the time to train that Yondaime Mizukage and Killerbee has. For one, the Kyuubi is pure hatred in physical form. It's been stated that he needs his hosts hatred inorder to grab hold of it and use it as a medium to take control. I'd say it's alot easier to ignore your hatred than it is to fight a beast of chakra the old fashioned way.

    Likewise, there's no where can you show me that it's the same for every bijuu. For all you know Hachibi, Yonbi, Ichibi, Rokubi...all of them had more easily manipulated bijuu.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaX
    If you disregard mental training, then by your logic, someone who cheats and puts all of the subjects in a tiny piece of paper to have a good grade is more deservant of having tha grade other than a student who sits in the classroom listening and studies only by sitting down and reading the book.
    Misenterpretation for the lose. My logic entails that gaining a game winning advantage with the least amount of effort (effort that can't even be CONSIDERED effort) is not respectable and shouldn't be praised. We'll use your flawed analogy:

    If you were about to take a test, and I studied for that test, but you had every answer to said test (gained by just SITTING STILL and waiting for them to be set on your desk), and you end up getting test scores far above mine, despite me studying day and night, losing sleep and drinking Mountain Dew non stop to stay awake...then you get no props, no respect, no honor from your achievements.

    Now, before you bother mentioning Sasuke, killing your brother and sacrificing your sanity is most definitely a price. Far more costly then "sitting still". Going blind is far more of a price than "getting bonked on the head with a stick". Don't ever compare the Kyuubi to the Mangekyou Sharingan if you want to be taken seriously.

  16. #42
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Your mom's bed
    Country
    Portugal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,580
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    Sage training is not just standing still, it is standing perfectly still while gathering a perfect amount of chakra from the nature and molding it, and that is no simple task, otherwise Jiraya, a genius in his own right, would've perfected it.
    Even the elder frogs, who are 900 years old, can't gather sage chakra as quickly as Naruto, which implies that is a very hard a delicate thing to do.

    And Kyuubi control is not just leaving away all the shreds of hatred (which is a hard thing to do by it's own right as we can see with Sasuke), it is also about controlling the Fox's immense chakra.

    While this may sound easy, it is not, as it requires even better chakra control, especially if you try and mix it with Sage mode, because the more chakra you have, the more Sage chakra you have to take from the Nature and the more time it takes to balance the chakra while controlling an obnoxius chakra and stading perfectly still at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
    LMFAO

  17. #43
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,251
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    @MegaX: Oops.

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog
    Sage training is not just standing still, it is standing perfectly still while gathering a perfect amount of chakra from the nature and molding it, and that is no simple task, otherwise Jiraya, a genius in his own right, would've perfected it.
    Even the elder frogs, who are 900 years old, can't gather sage chakra as quickly as Naruto, which implies that is a very hard a delicate thing to do.
    Jiraiya wasn't the main character of the series. And when was Jiraiya ever called a genius? And really, you have to stop blowing out of proportion this whole "Sitting still is seriouz bizniz" stuff. You sit still and the energy goes into YOU. All you do is make sure it's not so much that it overcasts your innate energy. And the majority of ninja out there have much better chakra control than Naruto. He simply was lucky enough to be born with a large chakra supply.

    Tell me, who would've mastered Sage Mode faster: Sakura or Naruto?


    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog
    And Kyuubi control is not just leaving away all the shreds of hatred (which is a hard thing to do by it's own right as we can see with Sasuke), it is also about controlling the Fox's immense chakra.
    Yes it is. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/490/11/

    Take the chakra without taking the will. By having a strong will, free of hatred. So yeah. That IS all it takes, as per the manga scan.

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog
    While this may sound easy, it is not, as it requires even better chakra control, especially if you try and mix it with Sage mode, because the more chakra you have, the more Sage chakra you have to take from the Nature and the more time it takes to balance the chakra while controlling an obnoxius chakra and stading perfectly still at the same time.
    Oh, I know what it takes to mix them together. That doesn't change the fact that neither resource is exclusively his. Be impressed with using someone else's strength as your own. Doesn't matter to me. I for one, know better.

  18. #44
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Xiraiya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cloud Village
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,590
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    There's a good chance that Naruto's Natural chakra pool being so huge and constantly growing over time from Kyuubi that is the main reason he was able to perfect Sage mode, I imagine that the less chakra you have the harder it is eventually to the point of being impossible.

    So someone like Kakashi would either not be able to even attempt it, OR he would have to get it right on the first go or become a frog etc.

  19. #45
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Vatican City State
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    33,137
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The "Kyuubi Sage" Discussion Thread

    I don't think we'll see much of Kyuubi Sage Naruto. Sage Mode is basically the same as Kyuubi mode, but not as powerful or longreaching, and it's safe for allies and the user itself. Kyuubi mode is just more dangerous.
    If anything, Kyuubi may come into play while Naruto's in Sage Mode when genjutsu is being cast or is cast upon Naruto. Kyuubi Sage to me is like, putting an iPhone in a Droid phone. There's some differences, but both are mostly the same. Both can be used together to overcome some weakness to its user, but otherwise both may not be as necessary.

New Reply
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts