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Thread: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

  1. #1216
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    Is there enough interest for a pyramid system? Hell you two are football fans and are not about to watch the red bulls play galaxy, thats not going to change if they swap the crap around at the bottom of the table. There is a better chance they will get even more viewers if its played to a system that is familiar rather than something totally alien. Once it has a stable and large enough fanbase then they can maybe look into making a pyramid system. I read its now the third most attended sport overtaking the NHL, so it's growing bigger every year.
    Well, no, there's not enough interest for a pyramid system, but American sports don't use a pyramid system anyway, so it would be even more alien for American viewers. You turn on an MLS match and the commentators will be talking about how a game that ended up 5-4 with absolutely woeful defending was awesome. Americans love offense, so the commentators act as if high scoring affairs are actually good. Don't get me wrong, high scoring affairs can be quite entertaining, but that's when the attacking play is great, not because the defending is so awful that it's not funny.

    I don't really know how many people go to NHL games anyway, and with all the lockouts that it's had the last 15 years, it's been losing more and more viewership. Plus, unlike how you can watch NFL, MLB, and NBA games for free, all NHL games must be paid for with a special package, like how Sky charges an arm and a leg for English viewers to watch the Premier League. There are sports packages that the tv corporations sell to show you all of the games per week (for actually very decent prices, usually), but we get a certain number of games per week free, usually dictated by the area you live in. For example, every week, unless it's a special game like the Patriots vs Rams in London this year, I get to watch the Patriots play free of charge. I think the fact that NHL isn't free at all also hurts the viewership.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    Well to be honest, your average joe who already watches the NFL, the NBA maybe a little baseball in the summer (or any combination thereof) is not about to give a bit more space to some sport being played across the world that is at odd times and does not really cater to him. There needs to be a connection for a casual viewer, and the battleground are those guys. Football leagues in Europe are not remotely interested in doing that which is why it really has to happen with the MLS or it wont happen at all.
    Yeah, I'm not going to deny that. Another problem is that there's no incentive to go and play football in the US when you're a kid. Sure, we've been expanding youth leagues and all of that and we have more children involved, but we don't have any large national development programs or anything, and there aren't club-run academies or anything. If you're an athletically gifted child, there's much more incentive to go play basketball, American football, or baseball than to try your hand at football. It's just how it is in the US with the finances involved. I'm sure that we have the people who could go on to be football stars, but just not enough people play football at a young age and therefore don't get into it.

    Gary, imagine if LeBron were a CF. A nice big, strong target man who has great movement.

    The US has probably five decent players in the world, Tim Howard, Brad Friedel, Oguchi Onyewu, Dempsey, and Landon Donovan (even though he's horribly overrated by American commentators). Without any great offensive or defensive players, we can't do anything on the world stage, so there's no way to really bring national attention to football.

    ---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

    Perhaps Gary's right and I am too jaded. :P

    I do know that in the last six years (basically since the 2006 World Cup), football coverage in the US has really expanded. We've gotten to see more football than every before, and as Gary said, the idea of watching a Premier League match on a Saturday morning would've been unbelievable 10 or so years ago.

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  2. #1217
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    It's a topic for another thread, but the NHL is free. They have a game of the week every weekend and are broadcast on local channels. That's how the Capitals are treated here anyways

    You can't watch every game for free in any sport. They have packages for all four of them.

    ---------- Post added at 12:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

    We do have a pyramid system here for purposes of organizing teams into different tiers by the USSF, the issue is there isn't promotion or delegation between said tiers.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    It's a topic for another thread, but the NHL is free. They have a game of the week every weekend and are broadcast on local channels. That's how the Capitals are treated here anyways

    You can't watch every game for free in any sport. They have packages for all four of them.
    Really? I've never seen a Rangers or Islanders game on tv. Yeah, it is for a different thread though.

    Yeah, I know, I mentioned that, but free games do help viewership and once you've watched it, you'd be more inclined to buy packages.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    We do have a pyramid system here for purposes of organizing teams into different tiers by the USSF, the issue is there isn't promotion or delegation between said tiers.
    Yeah, but as you said, it's not worth mentioning.

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  4. #1219
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Yeah, I'm not going to deny that. Another problem is that there's no incentive to go and play football in the US when you're a kid. Sure, we've been expanding youth leagues and all of that and we have more children involved, but we don't have any large national development programs or anything, and there aren't club-run academies or anything. If you're an athletically gifted child, there's much more incentive to go play basketball, American football, or baseball than to try your hand at football. It's just how it is in the US with the finances involved. I'm sure that we have the people who could go on to be football stars, but just not enough people play football at a young age and therefore don't get into it.

    Gary, imagine if LeBron were a CF. A nice big, strong target man who has great movement.

    The US has probably five decent players in the world, Tim Howard, Brad Friedel, Oguchi Onyewu, Dempsey, and Landon Donovan (even though he's horribly overrated by American commentators). Without any great offensive or defensive players, we can't do anything on the world stage, so there's no way to really bring national attention to football.
    The incentive is that it's cheap compared to other sports. Just look at equipment costs.

    A 6'8" target man? Assuming he could stay healthy and would have the coordination then yes...that would be frightening.

    We have many decent players, that's sort of an exaggeration. You don't play professionally unless you're decent. I think you meant a "world-class" player, to that I would agree. Thought Gooch hasn't been much for the national team...but whatever. I'd also include Michael Bradley in that list, though he doesn't have the resume the rest have.

    ---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Really? I've never seen a Rangers or Islanders game on tv. Yeah, it is for a different thread though.

    Yeah, I know, I mentioned that, but free games do help viewership and once you've watched it, you'd be more inclined to buy packages.



    Yeah, but as you said, it's not worth mentioning.
    Yeah, but you don't live in their markets right? I would say you'd be closer to the Bruins or Sabers right? I don't know, Caps games are on basic cable here.

    Yeah, that's why I said it's key for it to get on Broadcast TV. It has happened before, but it is not on a regular basis. I think the PL premiers have been on FOX the last two years and occasionally you'll see a PL match on FOX on Saturday or Sunday. NBC now has some national MLS rights I think for NBC Sports, so maybe they'll end up on NBC as well.

    I'm not sure if on what end it would be on the cause and effect flowchart, but the national team getting better and maintaining a good international ranking would do a lot for the popularity here. I think it would be easier for the sport to gain more attention if this happens. I don't see the league getting better on it's own merit.

  5. #1220
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    The incentive is that it's cheap compared to other sports. Just look at equipment costs.

    A 6'8" target man? Assuming he could stay healthy and would have the coordination then yes...that would be frightening.

    We have many decent players, that's sort of an exaggeration. You don't play professionally unless you're decent. I think you meant a "world-class" player, to that I would agree. Thought Gooch hasn't been much for the national team...but whatever. I'd also include Michael Bradley in that list, though he doesn't have the resume the rest have.
    It's not as if baseball or basketball aren't cheap though. Of course you do need to spend more over time, but...

    I think LeBron would be able to stay healthy.

    I don't consider any American player truly "world-class," although Dempsey would be the closest to that moniker of any of our players.

    Onyewu has had some success on the club level, especially this season where he's been a big part of why Malaga won their CL group. Michael Bradley plays for Roma, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Yeah, but you don't live in their markets right? I would say you'd be closer to the Bruins or Sabers right? I don't know, Caps games are on basic cable here.

    Yeah, that's why I said it's key for it to get on Broadcast TV. It has happened before, but it is not on a regular basis. I think the PL premiers have been on FOX the last two years and occasionally you'll see a PL match on FOX on Saturday or Sunday. NBC now has some national MLS rights I think for NBC Sports, so maybe they'll end up on NBC as well.

    I'm not sure if on what end it would be on the cause and effect flowchart, but the national team getting better and maintaining a good international ranking would do a lot for the popularity here. I think it would be easier for the sport to gain more attention if this happens. I don't see the league getting better on it's own merit.
    I don't technically live in any market, per se. I'm 200-250 miles from all four NHL teams (Sabres, Bruins, Rangers, and Islanders), so while that should logically put me in the market of some NHL team, as I'm a New York State resident, I should get at least one of them, but I don't somehow.

    Yeah, it is. FOX has been starting to get more games and they do have Fox Soccer as well. I think that they showed a Liverpool match or two (hours after the original broadcast) on FOX this year. There's also Bein Sports which shows a lot of English and Spanish football, as well as some Ligue 1 stuff. Right now, they're showing a Championship match from last weekend, I believe.

    The national team has been getting worse, so it hasn't been helping anything. :P

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  6. #1221
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Imperium's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    There's really no reason why an American Soccer league couldn't be the among the best, most competitive leagues in the world. Right now, what is it? Is it even in the top 10 in that regard? Maybe just barely...
    It's definitely not top ten in quality, maybe top twenty. It's an interesting thought as there are some strong leagues in Africa, and you can maybe throw in Japan to the mix for Asia. Not to mention Mexico and the South American nations. A coefficient would be intriguing.


    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    The foreign leagues may not be catering to us, but the networks looking for the next big moneymakers are. We already have two soccer-specific cable networks, Fox Soccer and GOL TV, the latter being simulcasted in Spanish and English. ESPN and FOX have fought over broadcast rights a lot, airing PL and CL matches. ESPN/ABC have had the rights to the last two World Cups, will have 2014 and then it will change hands over to FOX for the next two. If people are fighting over it, it's a good sign. Ten years ago soccer had next to no media presence here. With the expansion of digital cable, satellite tv, and of course the Internet, the sport has boomed here. The idea that I could wake up and watch Sunderland play Chelsea tomorrow morning on basic cable was nonsense 10 years ago.
    The onus is not only on the network to attract the fans its also has to be on the sport. Saturday kickoffs here are at three times, 12:45, 3pm, 5:30. The premier league has been focusing an incredibly amount of time and attention on Asia (and starting to be followed by the other leagues) and Asia is the main reason why the 12:45 kick offs are becoming more and more common. This trend is not reversing, the more football in Europe orientates towards the orient, the more American fans will miss out. I wouldnt be surprised if there are even earlier kick off dates introduced in the coming decade (and more proposals like the 38th game). Now how is getting up at an ungodly hour on a weekend morning suppose to attract people? It's not and there is only so much a network can do, which was my point. That's why the MLS is so important, it needs to succeed otherwise once the networks get tired it will be lights out again.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Yeah, I'm not going to deny that. Another problem is that there's no incentive to go and play football in the US when you're a kid. Sure, we've been expanding youth leagues and all of that and we have more children involved, but we don't have any large national development programs or anything, and there aren't club-run academies or anything. If you're an athletically gifted child, there's much more incentive to go play basketball, American football, or baseball than to try your hand at football. It's just how it is in the US with the finances involved. I'm sure that we have the people who could go on to be football stars, but just not enough people play football at a young age and therefore don't get into it.
    I think the structural challenges are difficult to navigate. Your athletes go through school programs into college programs which then turn them professional (something that I actually admire a lot), trying to promote football within that current setup will probably yield little result. It's a tough nut to crack because the best thing that can happen for American football is having a having a genuinely good American football star which is unlikely to happen as long as most of your talent is funnelled elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    We do have a pyramid system here for purposes of organizing teams into different tiers by the USSF, the issue is there isn't promotion or delegation between said tiers.
    I get the feeling if the structure is already in place, they are just waiting for the appropriate time to introduce it. It probably wont be soon, but it will eventually happen I guess.

  7. #1222
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    The onus is not only on the network to attract the fans its also has to be on the sport. Saturday kickoffs here are at three times, 12:45, 3pm, 5:30. The premier league has been focusing an incredibly amount of time and attention on Asia (and starting to be followed by the other leagues) and Asia is the main reason why the 12:45 kick offs are becoming more and more common. This trend is not reversing, the more football in Europe orientates towards the orient, the more American fans will miss out. I wouldnt be surprised if there are even earlier kick off dates introduced in the coming decade (and more proposals like the 38th game). Now how is getting up at an ungodly hour on a weekend morning suppose to attract people? It's not and there is only so much a network can do, which was my point. That's why the MLS is so important, it needs to succeed otherwise once the networks get tired it will be lights out again.
    The 12:45 kickoff is usually the only match we ever get on ESPN. This week, we get the 15:00 kickoff, as it's the Sunderland vs Chelsea match, plus the top four or five teams get an equal amount of coverage on ESPN. Anything later that breakfast time on a Saturday interferes with college football and the people couldn't have their precious college sports interrupted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    I think the structural challenges are difficult to navigate. Your athletes go through school programs into college programs which then turn them professional (something that I actually admire a lot), trying to promote football within that current setup will probably yield little result. It's a tough nut to crack because the best thing that can happen for American football is having a having a genuinely good American football star which is unlikely to happen as long as most of your talent is funnelled elsewhere.

    I get the feeling if the structure is already in place, they are just waiting for the appropriate time to introduce it. It probably wont be soon, but it will eventually happen I guess.
    It means that we don't have academies or anything though. We have athletes who could be godly at football, but they play other sports. LeBron could be a huge football superstar, probably better than Ibra.

    I don't know if we'd ever have a true pyramid system though. Even if the structure's already in place, a pyramid system isn't used in other American sports, so...

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  8. #1223
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    It's not as if baseball or basketball aren't cheap though. Of course you do need to spend more over time, but...

    I think LeBron would be able to stay healthy.

    I don't consider any American player truly "world-class," although Dempsey would be the closest to that moniker of any of our players.

    Onyewu has had some success on the club level, especially this season where he's been a big part of why Malaga won their CL group. Michael Bradley plays for Roma, right?
    Basketball is the only sport that can rival Soccer in that regard. Baseball is a lot more expensive than those two, and Football and Ice Hockey being the most expensive team sport. Golf probably trumps all though.

    I mean world-class as in able to play in the best leagues and have success. They've all done that. And yeah, Bradley plays for Roma. He used to play for Mönchengladbach, was on load to Aston, played for Chievo and then signed with Roma this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    I don't technically live in any market, per se. I'm 200-250 miles from all four NHL teams (Sabres, Bruins, Rangers, and Islanders), so while that should logically put me in the market of some NHL team, as I'm a New York State resident, I should get at least one of them, but I don't somehow.

    Yeah, it is. FOX has been starting to get more games and they do have Fox Soccer as well. I think that they showed a Liverpool match or two (hours after the original broadcast) on FOX this year. There's also Bein Sports which shows a lot of English and Spanish football, as well as some Ligue 1 stuff. Right now, they're showing a Championship match from last weekend, I believe.

    The national team has been getting worse, so it hasn't been helping anything. :P
    I wasn't aware of beIN until just now. Stupid thing is you have to change the audio to English for the channel. With GOL TV they just have two separate channels, one in Spanish and one in English. Good to know. So that makes three Soccer channels, plus ESPN Deportes, if you want to count it.

    That's not entirely true. When Klinsmann first came on as manager they had some growing pains while he was figuring out the talent and scheme. But they've had some historic success with beating Italy and Mexico away...friendlies, I know. But it's still something. There not at the same level they were during last WC Qualifying though.

    ---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    The 12:45 kickoff is usually the only match we ever get on ESPN. This week, we get the 15:00 kickoff, as it's the Sunderland vs Chelsea match, plus the top four or five teams get an equal amount of coverage on ESPN. Anything later that breakfast time on a Saturday interferes with college football and the people couldn't have their precious college sports interrupted.
    Yes, but the college football regular season has ended, so there's no real excuse. People only care about the FCS Tournament on a local basis, so it's not competing much with that. Otherwise, college is done until Bowl season starts in January.

    I would watch the Premier League over College Football every time. I just don't care about it at all. When it's two juggernauts playing each other, it might be a different story. But I don't care to watch Alabama play Louisiana-Monroe. College Football is the biggest joke going IMO.

    ---------- Post added at 01:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    I think the structural challenges are difficult to navigate. Your athletes go through school programs into college programs which then turn them professional (something that I actually admire a lot), trying to promote football within that current setup will probably yield little result. It's a tough nut to crack because the best thing that can happen for American football is having a having a genuinely good American football star which is unlikely to happen as long as most of your talent is funnelled elsewhere.
    It is admirable in a way, but the issue is if it isn't Football or Basketball, college sports have a hard time being profitable. So playing college soccer is counter-intuitive to developing talent.

  9. #1224
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    T
    It means that we don't have academies or anything though. We have athletes who could be godly at football, but they play other sports. LeBron could be a huge football superstar, probably better than Ibra.

    I don't know if we'd ever have a true pyramid system though. Even if the structure's already in place, a pyramid system isn't used in other American sports, so...
    Academies have to either have to run parallel with a school system, or have its own school system. The former is more likely because no one besides the most devout would jeopardise their children's education to go sign them up to a football academy. In the UK we have the former, kids go to academies after school and if they show promise they sign permanently into the latter. That's something that can be explored I think, its much more likely to work than trying to set up some high school football league to compete with basketball etc

    There are a lot of varied theories on football development. But what is generally agreed on is that the technical aspects of a footballer have to be developed early on. Between childhood until the early onset of puberty. The theory goes that if a child doesnt have the technical aspects for professional football by the ages of 13-14 they will not become professional footballers. There are very few exceptions to this rule (and none that I know of). That is why Academies take these kids in at 6+. The best academies have their talents from really early on and begin developing that. So you have the situation in which if someone can be a footballer, its practically decided before the reach highschool which is when the American system really starts to kick in. Football has to try and reach these kids really early on. Here is Wenger speaking on the what I just described (by way if analogy). He explains it in more general detail.

    ---------- Post added at 07:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    It is admirable in a way, but the issue is if it isn't Football or Basketball, college sports have a hard time being profitable. So playing college soccer is counter-intuitive to developing talent.
    Yep, its incredibly counter-intuitive. Also unlike major Football and Basketball stars, footballers dont have the crazy physical difference to make up for. They have earlier career spans, imagine a premier league without its under 24 stars? Arsenal would be relegated within a year. College football (soccer) is not only not profitable but a silly idea as well.

  10. #1225
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    Academies have to either have to run parallel with a school system, or have its own school system. The former is more likely because no one besides the most devout would jeopardise their children's education to go sign them up to a football academy. In the UK we have the former, kids go to academies after school and if they show promise they sign permanently into the latter. That's something that can be explored I think, its much more likely to work than trying to set up some high school football league to compete with basketball etc
    Soccer is a varsity sport in every high school in the country for the most part. So that has been done, and while it isn't unpopular, it isn't enough. Everyone plays soccer if you're into athletics, it reaches the height of it's popularity around high school, maintains it a bit in college, depending on the program, but after that it falls off the cliff unless you're in an avid market, like Seattle.

    ---------- Post added at 02:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    Yep, its incredibly counter-intuitive. Also unlike major Football and Basketball stars, footballers dont have the crazy physical difference to make up for. They have earlier career spans, imagine a premier league without its under 24 stars? Arsenal would be relegated within a year. College football (soccer) is not only not profitable but a silly idea as well.
    For the most part yes, but with Title 9 passing it has a become a popular college sport for girls as well. It depends on the program, like I said. Some schools are talent factories. It's the same way with Lacrosse here.

    I don't think there's any age requirements, no. Just look at Freddy Adu. They made a big deal out of that because it wouldn't happen in any other sport, even without rules excluding minors.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Basketball is the only sport that can rival Soccer in that regard. Baseball is a lot more expensive than those two, and Football and Ice Hockey being the most expensive team sport. Golf probably trumps all though.

    I mean world-class as in able to play in the best leagues and have success. They've all done that. And yeah, Bradley plays for Roma. He used to play for Mönchengladbach, was on load to Aston, played for Chievo and then signed with Roma this year.
    Well, you can play touch/flag football really cheaply. :P

    Well, that's not how I view world-class. If you're counting that, then we have a good number, but none of them are truly top players.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    I wasn't aware of beIN until just now. Stupid thing is you have to change the audio to English for the channel. With GOL TV they just have two separate channels, one in Spanish and one in English. Good to know. So that makes three Soccer channels, plus ESPN Deportes, if you want to count it.
    Actually, you don't. Well, I think that some of the Spanish matches are in Spanish and you might need to go for English audio, but when you watch the Premier League there, it's in English, iirc. I don't get GOL TV, actually. ESPN Deportes doesn't count.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    That's not entirely true. When Klinsmann first came on as manager they had some growing pains while he was figuring out the talent and scheme. But they've had some historic success with beating Italy and Mexico away...friendlies, I know. But it's still something. There not at the same level they were during last WC Qualifying though.
    It's true enough though. Friendlies mean nothing though. France schooled Germany in a friendly in February, but when it came to the Euros, France was pretty iffy.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Yes, but the college football regular season has ended, so there's no real excuse. People only care about the FCS Tournament on a local basis, so it's not competing much with that. Otherwise, college is done until Bowl season starts in January.

    I would watch the Premier League over College Football every time. I just don't care about it at all. When it's two juggernauts playing each other, it might be a different story. But I don't care to watch Alabama play Louisiana-Monroe. College Football is the biggest joke going IMO.
    Yeah, but they'll watch people talk about bowls instead of watching football. I'd rather watch a Premier League match over college football any day. I'll watch the BCS Championship game, but that's the national championship, but otherwise, I couldn't care less.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    It is admirable in a way, but the issue is if it isn't Football or Basketball, college sports have a hard time being profitable. So playing college soccer is counter-intuitive to developing talent.
    There's no doubt about that.

    ---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 AM ----------

    What do you think? Do you think not sending off Sunderland's player in the first minute was the right decision? It meant that there was still everything to play for instead of instantly handing the match to Chelsea.

    In today's match, in the first minute, Hazard was clean through, but was yanked back off the ball (and then Mignolet slide tackled him), but Bardsley wasn't called for any foul. It would've been a professional foul and a penalty, so the match would've been ended immediately and then Chelsea would've racked up a rugby score. It was pretty clearly a professional foul, but the referee Halsey made the decision not to award anything. It really seemed as if he didn't want to just end a match in the first minute. Perhaps there's a new mandate not to bring matches down to 11v10, which a lot of the matches this season have ended up as, I'm not sure, but it was a very odd decision by Halsey.

    Moreover, there were a bunch of very cynical stamps and kicks from the Sunderland players on our AMs which went largely unpunished. Mata had his ankle stood on and then was kicked in the leg, but not even a foul was given either time. I think there was a kick on Oscar which was called for a yellow, but there were just some shockingly awful decisions by Halsey. Gardner picked up a yellow and committed a foul deserving of a second yellow, but Halsey did not want to send anyone off. I think that there's a problem when a ref doesn't want to make match-changing decisions, even if they are warranted. Halsey did rightly award a penalty when Ramires was tackled from behind and completely upended, so he wasn't all wrong.

    My feelings on questionable refereeing weren't helped when Howard Webb bought into Cazorla's dive and awarded Arsenal a penalty, which Arteta converted.

    What are all of your thoughts on this matter?

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  13. #1227
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    I'm gonna throw this out of no where, but I actually like NY red Bulls (because Angel played there and later Henry).

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Messi breaks the record even with the bruise, as he gets goals 85 and 86 today.

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  15. #1229
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Messi breaks the record even with the bruise, as he gets goals 85 and 86 today.
    It's hilarious that every other report I've seen about it mentions that he still hasn't won a World Cup. I wonder if that will always hang over his head.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Not every great player has won a WC. It's true that quite a lot of them have, but plenty haven't. Even if you can score goals, if the players behind you can't defend and leak goals like a sieve, it's not your fault if you can't bring a victory home for your country.

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