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Thread: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

  1. #1321
    Horrible Person 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Well, pessimism aside, there's no point in not trying. Who knows what the Sports landscape will be 50 years from now?

    Yes, I'm an Orioles fan. We were good last year for the first time in a long time, so yes...some have come back.

    I feel like rooting for Chelsea or United is like an international rooting for the Yankees or Lakers - it's convenient.

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    The True Ninja MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted jorped's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Messi, Messi, Messi ... an amazing player but that never in the world deserved to achieve 4 golden balls in a row ... i am not even mad about this year's because all 3 had arguments to win this, but at 2010's it was so stupid.

    And anyone took a lot to Messi's suit?

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    Horrible Person 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by jorped View Post
    Messi, Messi, Messi ... an amazing player but that never in the world deserved to achieve 4 golden balls in a row ... i am not even mad about this year's because all 3 had arguments to win this, but at 2010's it was so stupid.

    And anyone took a lot to Messi's suit?
    Dude, who would win instead of him? I'm sorry, but as a Portuguese, you seem biased in this

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Dude, who would win instead of him? I'm sorry, but as a Portuguese, you seem biased in this
    While I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, Gary, people could argue that the player who meant the most for their team in the CL should win, although that wouldn't be Ronaldo either, perhaps Drogba.

    While it is a popularity contest, Messi does deserve the Ballon D'Or.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    While I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, Gary, people could argue that the player who meant the most for their team in the CL should win, although that wouldn't be Ronaldo either, perhaps Drogba.

    While it is a popularity contest, Messi does deserve the Ballon D'Or.
    It's an award for the player that performed the best in the previous season. It also takes into account a players performance in international competitions, so a player can get a boost for their performance in the World Cup, etc (maybe I'm wrong about that, wtv). Some could argue that? ...okay? But it isn't just about CL performance. Give an award for the best player in the CL then, oh wait, they do. And if we're going to base it on CL performance, Messi would have still won 2 out of 4 awards and was the top goal scorer in all four seasons.

    These types of awards are always popularity contests, in all sports. But could an actual argument be made that someone deserved it more than him the last four years? I don't see it at all. You're going to give it to Xavi or Iniesta over Messi? Both are stellar players, but please. Maybe you could argue Ronaldo, but I still don't think he was BETTER than Messi in any of those years.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Nope Ronaldo wasn't lol. The only people who thinks Iniesta/Xavi deserve it is the people who thinks Messi NEEDS them to be any good. As much as I dislike Ronaldo, he is the only close competition Messi has right now. However, if Michu or Falcao continues their form, then Messi will have some serious competition. Yes...I said it....MICHU!!! Giovincco is saying something too

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by kakashi919 View Post
    Nope Ronaldo wasn't lol. The only people who thinks Iniesta/Xavi deserve it is the people who thinks Messi NEEDS them to be any good. As much as I dislike Ronaldo, he is the only close competition Messi has right now. However, if Michu or Falcao continues their form, then Messi will have some serious competition. Yes...I said it....MICHU!!! Giovincco is saying something too
    I know, I know. The only reason I mentioned his teammates are because they're the only other players that were runner-up or second runner-up aside from Ronaldo for those years

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    It's an award for the player that performed the best in the previous season. It also takes into account a players performance in international competitions, so a player can get a boost for their performance in the World Cup, etc (maybe I'm wrong about that, wtv). Some could argue that? ...okay? But it isn't just about CL performance. Give an award for the best player in the CL then, oh wait, they do. And if we're going to base it on CL performance, Messi would have still won 2 out of 4 awards and was the top goal scorer in all four seasons.
    While I fully believe Messi deserved to win, the problem with what you're saying, Gary, is all Messi has is his club form. Argentina didn't have any international competitions (I don't count those small South American tournaments that the big players don't even always play in) to play in, and their friendlies were pretty much worthless, so Messi doesn't have any international form to count on. He was amazing in La Liga, a league that about everyone admits ships goals like a sieve and a place where the refs call fouls for anything(I'm not taking anything away there), and scored a fair amount in the CL, but didn't bring his club home the CL, missed a VITAL penalty off the crossbow, benefited from questionable refereeing against Milan, and well, that was that.

    Look, Messi is the best player in the world, and I believe that his 91 goals will never be surpassed, unless he himself surpasses his own record, but I've thought that he's been better overall in the past at certain points.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    These types of awards are always popularity contests, in all sports. But could an actual argument be made that someone deserved it more than him the last four years? I don't see it at all. You're going to give it to Xavi or Iniesta over Messi? Both are stellar players, but please. Maybe you could argue Ronaldo, but I still don't think he was BETTER than Messi in any of those years.
    I've always thought that Xavi's horribly overrated (a quality player, but not a true superstar like everyone claims he is), but neither he nor Iniesta are close to Messi's level. Ronaldo's been edged out in every category than Messi each year, and that's what counts. I actually think that Ronaldo may have been, in a way, better than Messi last season, as he singlehandedly took his team to penalties against Spain the SFs of the Euros, broke the club point record in La Liga with 100 while winning the La Liga title with Madrid, and actually performed in his CL SF (while both Messi and Ronaldo lost their CL SFs, Ronaldo performed in his, whereas Messi didn't). Of the four years, this is probably the only year that a good argument could be made in Ronaldo's favor, but Messi got the 91 goals and 91 goals trumps everything.

    Messi deserves the Ballon D'Or, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't have had a problem with Ronaldo winning this year.

    ---------- Post added January 11, 2013 at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was January 10, 2013 at 11:55 PM ----------

    Hmm...I didn't realize that Di Matteo got screwed out of coach of the year by only 0.7 percent. I figured that people would give it to Pep by an even larger margin, even with him not winning anything important last season.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Frosty, can you really bring up what Messi didn't accomplish with his team the past year as an argument against him and then boost Ronaldo for performing for his team when it wasn't decisive? Saying Messi didn't "perform" in a SF is like saying Babe Ruth struck out. This might have mattered if they were closer, but yeah...key number is 91 so....

    I mean, I don't know. I don't watch every minute of every match they've played, but 91 freaking goals

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Frosty, can you really bring up what Messi didn't accomplish with his team the past year as an argument against him and then boost Ronaldo for performing for his team when it wasn't decisive? Saying Messi didn't "perform" in a SF is like saying Babe Ruth struck out. This might have mattered if they were closer, but yeah...key number is 91 so....

    I mean, I don't know. I don't watch every minute of every match they've played, but 91 freaking goals
    Yeah, you can. The FIFA voters who made the Fifa Pro XI voted for all of the defenders because of their teams, not their individual accomplishments.

    Ronaldo beat Messi head to head last season and won the La Liga title, plus got Portugal to the Euro SFs, which is more than Messi did.

    In the 10/11 season, when Ronaldo scored more goals than Messi and broke the La Liga scoring record, the Ballon d'Or went to Messi because Barcelona won the La Liga title and the CL, so it seemingly works both ways for Messi, but not for Ronaldo. I'm not saying that Ronaldo necessarily was better than Messi, but I do think that perhaps Ronaldo has gotten a raw deal at times.

    In terms of the voting, what do you think of these numbers?

    141 voters didn't put Ronaldo in their top three (you vote for three players, numbered 1-3, with 5, 3, and 1 points being awarded respectively). These include 58 international captains, which means that more than a third (35 percent) of captains omitted Ronaldo from their top three; 47 international coaches, and 36 media representatives.

    On the the other hand, 44 voters did not mention Messi in their top three at all; 18 international captains, 13 international coaches, and 13 media representatives. Those included such people as Bruno Alves (the replacement Portugal captain for a day so that Ronaldo could get extra points as you can't vote for yourself), Iker Casillas, and Vincente Del Bosque, all people with an axe to grind against Messi for one reason or another. It really seemed that people felt more pressured to vote for Messi than Ronaldo.

    I'm not taking anything away from 91 goals, but when Ronaldo outscored Messi and broke the La Liga scoring record, all we heard was Barca won La Liga and the CL, end of story. Now, Madrid wins La Liga with a record point total of 100 and they do quite well against Bayern in the CL SF (still losing, admittedly), and on an individual level, Ronaldo nearly carried Portugal to the Euro Finals all on his own. Barca only won the Copa del Rey, Messi did nothing of note on the international level, although he did boost his total with a good number of goals against poor national teams, but Argentina not having a competition on the level of the Euros to play in isn't his fault. I'm just saying that Ronaldo and Messi haven't been treated equally.

    Was Messi the better individual performer? Yes, but in the past, when Ronaldo was the better individual performer, all we heard about was the team performance.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Like we said, a lot of these awards are popularity contests. Ronaldo is at a disadvantage because he isn't well-liked. Taking that out of it though, he still didn't have a better year than Messi in my opinion. I don't know, I think we're watching someone play who's deserving of winning it four years in a row and I don't see someone outperforming him so obviously that it doesn't pass the smell test. I don't know.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Like we said, a lot of these awards are popularity contests. Ronaldo is at a disadvantage because he isn't well-liked. Taking that out of it though, he still didn't have a better year than Messi in my opinion. I don't know, I think we're watching someone play who's deserving of winning it four years in a row and I don't see someone outperforming him so obviously that it doesn't pass the smell test. I don't know.
    I think that Ronaldo deserved to win in the 10/11 season, but the other three times, I have no problem with Messi winning.

    That's sort of saying that you have to blow the incumbent out of the water in order to nab the Ballon d'Or, which shouldn't be how it is.

    I think Ronaldo's a jerk, which is a big reason why people don't vote for him, but everyone acts like it's a reason to downgrade all of his performances.

    What would you say if Ronaldo outscored Messi this season and Madrid won the CL (Barca's already won the league barring some historic collapse, so I'm not counting that), but still lost the next edition of the Ballon d'Or?

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    What would you say if Ronaldo outscored Messi this season and Madrid won the CL (Barca's already won the league barring some historic collapse, so I'm not counting that), but still lost the next edition of the Ballon d'Or?
    Well, it would depend on how the rest of this year pans out. Madrid could do all that and Barcelona could win the league, the league cup, and the SuperCopa.

    What if Messi beats Ronaldo's point total for a season and wins everything but the CL? It becomes less about numbers and more about what you see with your eyes eventually.

    Though, this season has a bit of a wrench thrown into it by the name of Falcao. Depending on how the latter half of this season pans out, it's conceivable Ronaldo might not even be a runner-up with he and other Barcelona players clogging it up. Who knows?

    In all likelihood, I think if Real Madrid won the CL and Ronaldo had a year that was better or at least matches Messi, he should probably win. But if Messi even comes close to replicating last years numbers, aside from Barcelona tanking and winning nothing, I don't know if I can say Ronaldo deserves it more.

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Of the four years, this is probably the only year that a good argument could be made in Ronaldo's favor, but Messi got the 91 goals and 91 goals trumps everything.
    This. Madrid has won the La liga 30+ times, it would have taken more for Ronaldo to compete with the legacy that Messi has left this season. What Messi did was break a record that no one thought could be broken again, a record that stood for decades. Pele to Puskas, from Muller to Maradona, Messi has left a legacy this season that is similar and he will leave this game more deified than ever before. 40 goals was considered ballon d'or winner worthy just half a decade ago. Ronaldo would have either had to get really close to his tally or win the Euros as well. Messi deserved it. To be honest the only people who are complaining are Portugal and certain parts of the Spanish capital and there arguments dont stack up when someone just went and scored 91 goals at the top of the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    ...i could pimp in bulgaria...my game tight like that

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    Re: The Football/Soccer Thread v2

    Don't worry Frost...Falcao or Suarez will win it next time

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