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View Poll Results: Isshin (Papa Kurosaki) or Shunsui (papa lisa-chan/nanao-chan)

Voters
29. You may not vote on this poll
  • Shunsui wins with Katen Kyokotsu's crazy games!

    3 10.34%
  • Isshin wins with his strength and Getsuga Tenshou!

    15 51.72%
  • It's a tie, too hard to call!

    6 20.69%
  • Neither! They both drink sake and fall asleep!

    5 17.24%
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Thread: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

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    Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Lets be serious here, if these two were to go against eachother (they look a lot alike and seem to act about the same) and were to use their strongest techniques so far, who do you think would come out on top?

    Would it be Isshin with his new Getsuga Tenshou and his ability to seemingly fight way better than Ichigo?

    Or...

    Would it be Shunsui with his games like Irooni (color demon) and his Kageoni (shadow demon)?

    I think they are evenly matched but the color game could pose a problem. I think whoever goes first could end it all. I think since Shunsui is the owner of the game, he would probably go first. But will Isshin be able to catch Shunsui with a Getsuga Tenshou? Or will Shunsui use speed to dodge it like he did with Starrk's ceros? Lots of if's in this battle! Shunsui's games have been shown to do a lot of damage, but only two of them really seemed to work, what would the others do? Isshin seemed to have great strength also, in him standing up to Aizen and using that kido move to send him flying through buildings.

    Do we think that these two have had a connection before? Maybe rivals? Maybe related? Lets speculate and talk about what would happen if they were to fight!

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member WhatWhatinthebutt's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Neither of these bastards have even shown their bankai so I don't know... and their plenty strong without it sooo I would need to see more of their current shikai to assess who is stronger...


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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Yeah, it seems people (from the voting so far) think Isshin will win. I voted for Shunsui because I think his games are super dangerous. And weve only seen one fight from him beating Starrk in Shikai. Still I don't think it says anything that Isshin isn't strong. I just think the color game, the shadow game; things like that are hard to counter.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Given how well ishin fared against aizen, I'd think he'd be able to take shunsui at his own game.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner manmadegod's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Well I think, since Shunsui + toshiro + soi fon couldn´t do any damage to aizen, and when Isshin appears in front of ichigo, he kicks aizen's ass to the point he even asks him if thats all he got. If I consider those facts its obvius that Isshin will win.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by manmadegod View Post
    Well I think, since Shunsui + toshiro + soi fon couldn´t do any damage to aizen, and when Isshin appears in front of ichigo, he kicks aizen's ass to the point he even asks him if thats all he got. If I consider those facts its obvius that Isshin will win.
    People are just going to argue that Shunsui lost because Aizen used KS against him, and not Isshin, Urahara, and co. Yeah... the people here on MH can find an excuse for everything.

    One thing I will say though is that there was at least a couple instances where Aizen was not using KS against Shunsui and the others. Why else would Aizen have blocked Shunsui's attack with a force-field if he was simply an illusion.

    Shunsui fights by getting cheap shots on his opponents while they're distracted, but even that didn't work on Aizen. If this is a fair 1 on 1 fight against Isshin, I think Shunsui would be out of luck. Then again, Shunsui could always throw his haori or hat at Isshin's face and defeat Isshin with a cheap shot, the way he did against Starrk.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; June 01, 2010 at 11:43 PM.

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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    So the color game was a cheap shot right? By telling Starrk the rules that was a cheap shot? You state Shunsui uses cheap shots when his opponent is distracted, what did Aizen do when he cut the captains down? Used a shot while they were distraced... How about when he switched places with Hinamori? Used a cheap shot to get Hitsugaya distracted. Stark was caught in the game. Shunsui could have called black after throwing off his coat in the beginning. Instead he called grey and struck his arm to do the least damage, because Shunsui had NO grey. Instead of ending it in one strike, he gave Starrk a turn because he plays fair. He could call grey again against Isshin and strike him on his left shoulder. But it'd do minimal damage, but then he can wait for isshin to call a color. Say he calls white and tries to hit Shunsui the same way Starrk did, but Shunsui throws off his white robe before he calls it. What white does he have to hit? None. That's Isshin's turn. Then Shunsui calls black since he's wearing all black and strikes Isshin, who is wearing mostly black. What happens then? Does Isshin get him back or does he get struck down?

    All I hear is 'Isshin faced Aizen' -Aizen didn't ever use KS against Isshin.
    I hear 'Isshin hit Aizen with a GT' -Aizen isn't even trying to block attacks.
    I hear 'Isshin hit him with a kido move' -So did Urahara and it did nothing.

    I don't hear 'Shunsui cracked Aizen's barrier with one hand'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui stabbed Aizen through the back hiding in a shadow'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui dodged machine gun ceros before Juushiro stepped in'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui took out Starrk with 2 hits'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui was said to be above his peers by the Captain Commander'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui took a cero directly to the back and it didn't harm him'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui got hit with an attack from Starrk in the color game but still shrugged it off'

    How come all I hear is about Isshin's feats? Which were are against one person that didn't use his greatest asset- Illusions.
    Last edited by freshseth83; June 02, 2010 at 12:04 AM.

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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    So the color game was a cheap shot right? By telling Starrk the rules that was a cheap shot? You state Shunsui uses cheap shots when his opponent is distracted, what did Aizen do when he cut the captains down? Used a shot while they were distraced... How about when he switched places with Hinamori? Used a cheap shot to get Hitsugaya distracted. Stark was caught in the game. Shunsui could have called black after throwing off his coat in the beginning. Instead he called grey and struck his arm to do the least damage, because Shunsui had NO grey. Instead of ending it in one strike, he gave Starrk a turn because he plays fair. He could call grey again against Isshin and strike him on his left shoulder. But it'd do minimal damage, but then he can wait for isshin to call a color. Say he calls white and tries to hit Shunsui the same way Starrk did, but Shunsui throws off his white robe before he calls it. What white does he have to hit? None. That's Isshin's turn. Then Shunsui calls black since he's wearing all black and strikes Isshin, who is wearing mostly black. What happens then? Does Isshin get him back or does he get struck down?

    All I hear is 'Isshin faced Aizen' -Aizen didn't ever use KS against Isshin.
    I hear 'Isshin hit Aizen with a GT' -Aizen isn't even trying to block attacks.
    I hear 'Isshin hit him with a kido move' -So did Urahara and it did nothing.

    I don't hear 'Shunsui cracked Aizen's barrier with one hand'
    1 I don't hear 'Shunsui stabbed Aizen through the back hiding in a shadow'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui dodged machine gun ceros before Juushiro stepped in'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui took out Starrk with 2 hits'
    I don't hear 'Shunsui was said to be above his peers by the Captain Commander'
    2 I don't hear 'Shunsui took a cero directly to the back and it didn't harm him'
    3 I don't hear 'Shunsui got hit with an attack from Starrk in the color game but still shrugged it off'

    How come all I hear is about Isshin's feats? Which were are against one person that didn't use his greatest asset- Illusions.
    1 no he didn't. that was illusion.
    2 first of all, it did harm him. not fatally, but it sent him falling to the ground where he continued to lay for a few minutes while he recovered. second of all, plenty of characters have taken ceros and been alright.
    3 many, many characters in Bleach have taken more serious wounds that that slice on Shunsui's back and still kept going. it's not that great of a feat when it comes to Bleach.

    nothing against Shunsui. just setting some things straight.
    Last edited by ryanzokuken; June 02, 2010 at 12:59 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DEATHBOTT's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    colour game is a dangerous move for shunsui himself as well. its all well and good to say when its shunsui's turn he'll just call out black and ohko isshin but remember isshin doesnt need to stand still and take the hit. this comes down to 2 things whether isshin's kenjutsu is better and whether isshin can figure out the rules. the first im inclined to think he is. the second i dont know.

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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    1. Fake Aizen or real Aizen it was a move that was successful
    2. He wasn't hurt there was no marks on him or even on his captains robe, even Lisa said to stop playing dead
    3. So Starrk being the #1 Espada wearing all white calling white isn't a strong attack?

    You say his swordsmanship is better than Shunsui's? Yet Shunsui can use both of his hands and has two swords, twin swords are harder to yield than a single blade. The fact he can switch hands and alter the speed and strength in those hands says a lot as well. You say Isshin can dodge it, but can Shunsui not do the same? He's the owner of the swords and has probably mastered the games. But Isshin who would be in the game for the first time would better it's master? That's like saying you pick up Chess and beat the guy who invented it. Maybe not so much Chess, but you get the point.


    1. Fake Aizen or real Aizen it was a move that was successful
    2. He wasn't hurt there was no marks on him or even on his captains robe, even Lisa said to stop playing dead
    3. So Starrk being the #1 Espada wearing all white calling white isn't a strong attack?

    You say his swordsmanship is better than Shunsui's? Yet Shunsui can use both of his hands and has two swords, twin swords are harder to yield than a single blade. The fact he can switch hands and alter the speed and strength in those hands says a lot as well. You say Isshin can dodge it, but can Shunsui not do the same? He's the owner of the swords and has probably mastered the games. But Isshin who would be in the game for the first time would better it's master? That's like saying you pick up Chess and beat the guy who invented it. Maybe not so much Chess, but you get the point.
    Last edited by freshseth83; June 02, 2010 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DEATHBOTT's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    1. Fake Aizen or real Aizen it was a move that was successful
    2. He wasn't hurt there was no marks on him or even on his captains robe, even Lisa said to stop playing dead
    3. So Starrk being the #1 Espada wearing all white calling white isn't a strong attack?

    You say his swordsmanship is better than Shunsui's? Yet Shunsui can use both of his hands and has two swords, twin swords are harder to yield than a single blade. The fact he can switch hands and alter the speed and strength in those hands says a lot as well. You say Isshin can dodge it, but can Shunsui not do the same? He's the owner of the swords and has probably mastered the games. But Isshin who would be in the game for the first time would better it's master? That's like saying you pick up Chess and beat the guy who invented it. Maybe not so much Chess, but you get the point.


    1. Fake Aizen or real Aizen it was a move that was successful
    2. He wasn't hurt there was no marks on him or even on his captains robe, even Lisa said to stop playing dead
    3. So Starrk being the #1 Espada wearing all white calling white isn't a strong attack?

    You say his swordsmanship is better than Shunsui's? Yet Shunsui can use both of his hands and has two swords, twin swords are harder to yield than a single blade. The fact he can switch hands and alter the speed and strength in those hands says a lot as well. You say Isshin can dodge it, but can Shunsui not do the same? He's the owner of the swords and has probably mastered the games. But Isshin who would be in the game for the first time would better it's master? That's like saying you pick up Chess and beat the guy who invented it. Maybe not so much Chess, but you get the point.
    i dont get the point. irooni doenst boost shunsuis swordsmanship. it only weakens or strengthens each of their attacks, obviously unless under pis shunsui could make all his attacks as strong as possible but he still has to hit isshin who can also strike back with as much power as the person whos turn it is. shunsui's only advantage is knowledge, knowlegde that he has to give out or the game wont continue or by just saying a certain colour and then attacking. that means if isshin is more skilled with the sword(whiich i think he is) then he can win. isshin has shown skill in pure kenjutsu against aizan. you always point out shunsui skill with the sword by pointing to his skirmish with starrk. well aizan>starrk in a pure sword fight.

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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBOTT View Post
    i dont get the point. irooni doenst boost shunsuis swordsmanship. it only weakens or strengthens each of their attacks, obviously unless under pis shunsui could make all his attacks as strong as possible but he still has to hit isshin who can also strike back with as much power as the person whos turn it is. shunsui's only advantage is knowledge, knowlegde that he has to give out or the game wont continue or by just saying a certain colour and then attacking. that means if isshin is more skilled with the sword(whiich i think he is) then he can win. isshin has shown skill in pure kenjutsu against aizan. you always point out shunsui skill with the sword by pointing to his skirmish with starrk. well aizan>starrk in a pure sword fight.

    dont bother with this it just an excuse for random shunsui facts just to be thrown out to make it look like manga fact is wrong. we gone thru all of this in the SS vs outcasts thread the whole shunsui just goes in circles as fandom takes over.

    plus the title of thread
    1. we dont know how powerfull isshins GT is so you cant claim it is too strong
    2. saying demon irooni game would catch him is not fact isshin could dodge we dont know yet.

    the title is just making people decide who to vote for already.

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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by hyst-gundam View Post
    dont bother with this it just an excuse for random shunsui facts just to be thrown out to make it look like manga fact is wrong. we gone thru all of this in the SS vs outcasts thread the whole shunsui just goes in circles as fandom takes over.

    plus the title of thread
    1. we dont know how powerfull isshins GT is so you cant claim it is too strong
    2. saying demon irooni game would catch him is not fact isshin could dodge we dont know yet.

    the title is just making people decide who to vote for already.
    What manga facts are being disputed by me that aren't real?

    The FACT that Shunsui said, the strength of the attack is relative to the amount of the said color the attacker is wearing, or how dangerous it is to yourself? So white was the attack that would do the most damage for Starrk because he had more white than anything, but it didn't kill Shunsui, it cut him on the back. Shunsui used black, the color most dangerous to him and killed Starrk.

    So tell me what was non-factual about that? Maybe you can come up with a better thread title? You could tell me what would be a better title. This thread was made by me, because I think it'd be an interesting battle.


    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBOTT View Post
    i dont get the point. irooni doenst boost shunsuis swordsmanship. it only weakens or strengthens each of their attacks, obviously unless under pis shunsui could make all his attacks as strong as possible but he still has to hit isshin who can also strike back with as much power as the person whos turn it is. shunsui's only advantage is knowledge, knowlegde that he has to give out or the game wont continue or by just saying a certain colour and then attacking. that means if isshin is more skilled with the sword(whiich i think he is) then he can win. isshin has shown skill in pure kenjutsu against aizan. you always point out shunsui skill with the sword by pointing to his skirmish with starrk. well aizan>starrk in a pure sword fight.
    where has Aizen showed his superior swordsmanship? All I've seen from him is hide in illusions, hit guys when they're distracted. Then with Hoguyoku, tank the hits cause a big explosion, defeat everyone off screen.
    Last edited by freshseth83; June 02, 2010 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHBOTT View Post
    well he was toying with shunsui and hitsu before he used ks and then owned three captains and vc visard with his sword. and then he took out 4 captains including shunsui in one step after he broke of ks.
    Clashing swords and dodging attacks don't mean you're toying with your opponents. See Ukitake vs Lilynette to see what "toying with" means.

    Aizen used KS to create an OPENING to take out four captains. The manga never mentioned what would happen if Hitsugaya didn't go berserk and other captains weren't distracted. For all we know, the OPENING is the reason why these captains got defeated and we don't know what would happen if the captains kept their cool. And since KS is the reason of this OPENING, we can say Aizen used KS to great effect. I'm pretty sure that if Aizen didn't use KS against these captains, he would have lost.

    On topic,

    I believe Isshin is the strongest of the trio who fought Aizen and new chapter gave us even more evidence to support this claim. It seems to me that he is even stronger than Shunsui. Aizen couldn't defeat Isshin without using KS which is an impressive feat. Of course it also speaks volumes about the importance of KS. Suppose that Isshin were under hypnosis and he realized that his GT hit Ichigo instead of Aizen, Isshin might have been an easy prey for Aizen under these circumstances. So I don't blame Shunsui or other captains for giving an OPENING to Aizen which caused their defeat and I wouldn't use it as an argument to claim their inferiority to other characters who were never in their shoes. I believe Isshin is stronger than Shunsui for other reasons which are more hunch than evidence.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DEATHBOTT's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin (his new Getsuga Tenshou is too strong) VS. Shunsui (color demon-Irooni game would catch him)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Clashing swords and dodging attacks don't mean you're toying with your opponents. See Ukitake vs Lilynette to see what "toying with" means.

    Aizen used KS to create an OPENING to take out four captains. The manga never mentioned what would happen if Hitsugaya didn't go berserk and other captains weren't distracted. For all we know, the OPENING is the reason why these captains got defeated and we don't know what would happen if the captains kept their cool. And since KS is the reason of this OPENING, we can say Aizen used KS to great effect. I'm pretty sure that if Aizen didn't use KS against these captains, he would have lost.

    On topic,

    I believe Isshin is the strongest of the trio who fought Aizen and new chapter gave us even more evidence to support this claim. It seems to me that he is even stronger than Shunsui. Aizen couldn't defeat Isshin without using KS which is an impressive feat. Of course it also speaks volumes about the importance of KS. Suppose that Isshin were under hypnosis and he realized that his GT hit Ichigo instead of Aizen, Isshin might have been an easy prey for Aizen under these circumstances. So I don't blame Shunsui or other captains for giving an OPENING to Aizen which caused their defeat and I wouldn't use it as an argument to claim their inferiority to other characters who were never in their shoes. I believe Isshin is stronger than Shunsui for other reasons which are more hunch than evidence.
    you have taken my quote out of context. that wasnt an example of isshin being better than shunsui (ive never used the isshin, yoruichi and uhara> shunsui because they lasted longer against aizan argument.), it was an example of aizan useing kenjutsu. you have to be pretty good to pull that off even if your opponents are open.

    and blocking hitsugaya attacks with one hand and effortlessly dodgeing shunsui's attacks is toying in my books.
    Last edited by DEATHBOTT; June 03, 2010 at 04:03 AM.

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