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Thread: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member howbigis1gb's Avatar
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    Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Alright; a lot of people claim that Segunda Etapa makes Ulq. the strongest, but I disagree. This is my contention

    "Resurrección (帰刃 (レスレクシオン), resurekushion; Spanish for "Resurrection", Japanese for "Returning Blade") is a Zanpakutō release technique exclusive to the Arrancar, similar to that of a Shinigami. Unlike a Shinigami's Zanpakutō however, an Arrancar's Zanpakutō is simply the Arrancar's Hollow powers sealed into the shape of a weapon. "

    Assuming another arrancar was as powerful as Ulq. and had only one release, it would be equivalent to R2 Ulq. Also; Ulq. admitted that he wasn't the strongest. And Aizen just hadn't "seen" R2, doesn't mean he didn't know about it.

    All I'm saying that you can believe Ulq. was stronger than 1-3, but not because he had R2
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    If Ulquiorra is the strongest arrancar, then Byakuya is the strongest captain because his bankai has more than one form. Yammy's resurreccion has two stages too, maybe more but it seems to be a big deal when it comes to Ulquiorra because he is the most popular arrancar. By that logic, I guess Yumichika has bankai too because his shikai has two forms and his second form must be bankai.

    howbigis1gb, by definition, you are right, "An Arrancar's Zanpakutō is simply the Arrancar's Hollow powers sealed into the shape of a weapon." The number of stages don't matter much because all the arrancar has will still be his hollow powers. Tousen was a captain-level shinigami, he had bankai but his resurreccion only had one stage, if second stage did mean bankai, Tousen's resurreccion would have had two stages too. Ulquiorra's second stage is a random power-up, it is indeed no big deal.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xerneas's Avatar
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    It won't be a big deal unless Kubo makes it one by revealing Ulquiorra was a hidden VL or some nonsense. That would be garbage cause the guy died like a year ago. The VL intro should be way better than that. They deserve it after what Kubo put the lower Hollow/Arrancar through. People think its a big deal for 2 reasons - 1) pure fanboyism and 2) supposedly R2 is Arrancar Ban Kai. Which makes no sense cause resurreccion doesn't work that way.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Funny I had been thinking about making a thread to discuss whether segunda etapa was something within ulquiorra´s ordinary resurreccion or an entirely new level of release. I would change the name of the thread to something less biassed for discussions sake though.

    Now, resurreccion does mean what you mentioned but you neglected to mention "resurreccion segunda etapa" has a different meaning from the ordinary "resurreccion". Resurreccion does mean "returning blade" but "resurreccion segunda etapa" means "Sword release Second level". Basically, resurreccion segunda etapa was refered to in the manga with basically the same terminology bankai was refered to (second level of release, second stage of release...)

    Now, under the assumption segunda etapa was a second stage stage of release in roughly the same context as bankai then logically we should expect roughly the same things. Resurreccion usually provides an increase in physical capacities, an increase in reiatsu and a number of special abilities depending on the arrancar. In that sense, what we should expect from a second stage of release for an arrancar is a further increase of physical capacities, a significant increase in reiatsu and more powerful special techniques. Physical capacities are hard to measure since all we saw was ulquiorra but rapping ichigo but a significant increase in reiatsu and a more powerful special ability was something we did see considering ishida even noted a change not only in quantity of reiatsu but also in nature and ulquiorra´s lightsaber went from a nameless non explosive technique to a very named and unreasonably destructive technique.

    IMHO what ulquiorra went through was literally an equivalent to bankai. The name in any language has basically the same terminology as bankai and a change in reiatsu would make no sense if ulquiorra remained in his resurreccion through the whole thing.

    Arrancar do seal their powers within a sword but we should not forget arrancar do in fact posses shinigami powers. In that sense, arrancar do gain power from removing their masks. A zampakuto is something arrancar gain from their very real shinigami half so it´d would not be strange this zampakuto would have the same or even more power than a shinigami zampakuto.
    Last edited by kkck; June 03, 2010 at 01:29 PM.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    I agree with the above posts so much I wish I'd written them myself.

    People keep comparing resurrection to shikai/bankai as if they exactly alike, but they are not.

    Ulquiorra isn't a Vastlord because it doesn't make any sense to introduce ridiculously strong characters and then kill them off without some sort of hint as to whether or not they are a Vastlord.

    Ulquiorra's Segunda Etapa is somewhat of a big deal.
    But only because it's one of the coolest looking resurrections. I remember people talking about the size of the explosion his LDR made in the Hueco Mundo desert, and I was like "um...lolwut?"

    Anyway....this topic is win.


    The way I see Seguda Etapa is more like the second half of a full resurrection. If an arrancar's powers are sealed into a sword, then when he resurrects, he gains those powers. In Ulquiorra's case, when he resurrects (the first time), he doesn't resurrect completely. When he activates Segunda Etapa, then his resurrection is complete. I know Ulquiorra didn't really say anything like that, but that's how I see it. It's my way of putting it in hollow terms rather than comparing it to shikai/bankai.
    Last edited by Exodi; June 03, 2010 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    If Ulquiorra is the strongest arrancar, then Byakuya is the strongest captain because his bankai has more than one form. Yammy's resurreccion has two stages too, maybe more but it seems to be a big deal when it comes to Ulquiorra because he is the most popular arrancar. By that logic, I guess Yumichika has bankai too because his shikai has two forms and his second form must be bankai.

    howbigis1gb, by definition, you are right, "An Arrancar's Zanpakutō is simply the Arrancar's Hollow powers sealed into the shape of a weapon." The number of stages don't matter much because all the arrancar has will still be his hollow powers. Tousen was a captain-level shinigami, he had bankai but his resurreccion only had one stage, if second stage did mean bankai, Tousen's resurreccion would have had two stages too. Ulquiorra's second stage is a random power-up, it is indeed no big deal.
    While they work differently, seemingly, Yammy is able to continuously power up during resurreccion, a strong enough power to make him the top Espada once released. My problem with claims that Ulq R2 surpasses the top 3 and Yammy is that rank is given on "destructive power" and I can't really say Ulq R2 is more destructive than 0 - 3. Even Hallibels power was insane, she just happened to fight Hitsu, the least balanced match up. So her power needs to be discussed in the abstract. Personally I think the argument should be about Barragon not Ulquiorra. How could anything Starrk shown defeat the ability to decompose everything.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    I agree, not a big deal.

    The only point of contention about Ulquiorra is the part where he says that even Aizen hasn't seen him while he's in R2.

    So according to Ulquiorra, Aizen has only seen him in his R1 resureccion, that could lead to some discrepancy in the true rankings of the espada, no?

    I'm not saying that Ulquiorra is uber strong since Aizen only saw his primera etapa, it just leaves a possibility.
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten.Sama View Post
    While they work differently, seemingly, Yammy is able to continuously power up during resurreccion, a strong enough power to make him the top Espada once released. My problem with claims that Ulq R2 surpasses the top 3 and Yammy is that rank is given on "destructive power" and I can't really say Ulq R2 is more destructive than 0 - 3. Even Hallibels power was insane, she just happened to fight Hitsu, the least balanced match up. So her power needs to be discussed in the abstract. Personally I think the argument should be about Barragon not Ulquiorra. How could anything Starrk shown defeat the ability to decompose everything.
    I think Starrk was the primera because he was the whole package. He's fast, perceptive, and has plenty of strong attacks. Barragan was extremely arrogant and only had Respira. Starrk's 1000 cero's probably could kill Barragan before he could age them.

    That's all I could kill up with. To be honest, I'm trying to convince myself too . Barragan's power seemed way tooo haxx to deal with. The only two reliable ways I can think of to deal with it is to use extremely destructive attacks or having enough reiastu not to be effected by it.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    this whole ulquorria has hyped now after these perfect hollow vs ulq episodes.

    he is not the strongest espada it is not a bankai.

    post above have explained why

    the only thing il add is that AIZEN MUST KNOW about R2 heck ulq was pretty his espada right hand man and this is Aizen he knows everything according to kubo so saying that he doesnt know about R2 is strange. And if that chapter about Aizen manupilating Ichigos fights he would have known that Ulq had R2 and ichigo would go perfect hollow to win.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by hyst-gundam View Post
    the only thing il add is that AIZEN MUST KNOW about R2 heck ulq was pretty his espada right hand man and this is Aizen he knows everything according to kubo so saying that he doesnt know about R2 is strange. And if that chapter about Aizen manupilating Ichigos fights he would have known that Ulq had R2 and ichigo would go perfect hollow to win.
    Just because ulquiorra seems like the closest espada to Aizen doesn't change the validity of Ulquiorra's statement.

    When did kubo (kubo, not a character in bleach, kubo himself) say that Aizen knows everything?

    Ulquiorra didn't need R2 to spank Ichigo's ass, in R1 he was already far more than Ichigo could handle. He could have put an R1 cero through Ichigo's chest and most likely the same events would have occurred.



    Again, not saying that R2 is uber powerful, just that we can't really say until it's clarified (that is, if it ever is clarified).
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Yammy has a '2nd stage' even though it seems like he doesn't call it that. Maybe that's why these two were always together. He even said as far as he was concerned, all of the espada were crap. Before he even released again, Yamma blew away 3 guys at least on VC level and Renji who is on Captain level in terms of Reiatsu. He threw Rukia so hard she couldn't even recover. That's before he released AGAIN. If anything we should be talking about Yammy, and hoping he doesn't get off-screened by two captains who didn't finish the job in his 1st stage of release.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy01741 View Post
    Just because ulquiorra seems like the closest espada to Aizen doesn't change the validity of Ulquiorra's statement.

    When did kubo (kubo, not a character in bleach, kubo himself) say that Aizen knows everything?

    Ulquiorra didn't need R2 to spank Ichigo's ass, in R1 he was already far more than Ichigo could handle. He could have put an R1 cero through Ichigo's chest and most likely the same events would have occurred.



    Again, not saying that R2 is uber powerful, just that we can't really say until it's clarified (that is, if it ever is clarified).
    look at what aizen says in nearly every fight and plan.

    he claims every fight he controlled that ichigo been in and knew the outcome

    he claimed he knew urahara would arrive (was obivous tho)

    he planned out the whole SS story

    he used tousen for fun

    so the 2nd greatest mind ( he admited urahara was better) would know the ablitlys he ranked. n the fact he joined with the houg would prob give him knowledge on the powers other people have gained from the houg...that is a big assumption tho but seems right.

    there must been a reason he kept his eye on ulq and used him in most of his plans the rest of espada prob never knew about R2 but Aizen should have known of it given of how smart he is.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Even though I accept the rankings as they are, I also think that Barragan ranking speculation is more reasonable than the Ulquiorra speculation, which stems mostly from fan-love. Not just because of his ridiculous power (remember he defeated himself technically, similar to Yama), but because of the hateful relationship he had with Aizen and how the latter plays with his underlings. But in the end....does it really matter?

    I mean lets say Kubo came out and said Ulq was a hidden VL and the strongest Espada. His fans wouldn't have much to celebrate. He's long dead and being the first VL introduced, he'd logically be the weakest also. The manga is clearly going to a totally different level of power so he would still be trash.

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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by hyst-gundam View Post
    look at what aizen says in nearly every fight and plan.

    he claims every fight he controlled that ichigo been in and knew the outcome

    he claimed he knew urahara would arrive (was obivous tho)

    he planned out the whole SS story

    he used tousen for fun

    so the 2nd greatest mind ( he admited urahara was better) would know the ablitlys he ranked. n the fact he joined with the houg would prob give him knowledge on the powers other people have gained from the houg...that is a big assumption tho but seems right.

    there must been a reason he kept his eye on ulq and used him in most of his plans the rest of espada prob never knew about R2 but Aizen should have known of it given of how smart he is.
    Your proof is useless.

    That's like saying just because I know the meaning of life, the theory of relativity, the answer to the riemann hypothesis, and the truth of quantum theory, i must therefore know that my little brother secretly has a girlfriend.


    Basically, just because Aizen knows a lot, doesn't mean he knows everything, and thus, does not mean that he knows of R2.

    It is an assumption, it may seem right to you, but it is an assumption. And in a factual discussion, it is best to leave assumptions behind.
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Quote:
    The way I see Seguda Etapa is more like the second half of a full resurrection. If an arrancar's powers are sealed into a sword, then when he resurrects, he gains those powers. In Ulquiorra's case, when he resurrects (the first time), he doesn't resurrect completely. When he activates Segunda Etapa, then his resurrection is complete. I know Ulquiorra didn't really say anything like that, but that's how I see it. It's my way of putting it in hollow terms rather than comparing it to shikai/bankai.
    Well, the idea of an incomplete release could work for shinigami too considering they do release their "full" power only when using bankai. The idea could apply to hollows in a similar fashion but I'd disagree on that it'd be something only for ulquiorra -there is no evidence at all as you mentioned-. Seeing grimmjow and his minions, it seems fairly evident the form gained thorugh resurreccion is basically the same they had when they were hollows so we even have a precedent where resurreccion seems to be a complete release of the previous hollow form.

    Bankai has been called second stage or second level of release and the same terminology has been used to calll segunda etapa. Not only that but ulquiorra said he is the only espada who has reached that form implying it was not something characteristic to him but rather it was possible for other arrancar to attain. Seriously, how dumb it'd be for ulquiorra to claim he was the only one among the espada to acquire a second level of release if what he did was something which was a part of his normal resurreccion -meaning it was his own personal power and could not plausibly be acquired by others-. It'd be like byakuya taking credit for being the only captain who can use shukkei hakuteiken when acquiring such a thing is something that belongs to byakuya's personal power -it'd be a different story if he was the only one to acquire another level of release-.

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