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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Singles Tier List
Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.
Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.
I don't really remember where we stopped, but apparently the list in the OP is what we had previously agreed on? I'd like to see the following changes:
-Byoudouin up to SSS.
-Oni up to SSS if we assume TnK for him (which we apparently did for Kintarou because he wouldn't be in S without it).
-Tokugawa new to SS.
-Shiraishi and Tachibana up to B.
The HSers should be obvious, for Shraishi and Tachibana the reason is mostly that they have a 4 in stamina and as a result have the capacity to play 3 set matches on a good level. They also both have a guaranteed stat boost through removing the gauntlet and Moujuu respectively which widens the gap between them and the other MSers.
In general, regarding the number of sets played we assume for this list I think we should go with 3 set matches for the upper tiers and 1 set matches for the middle and lower tiers. There's no point in discussing those lower characters on a 3 set basis because they probably aren't able to play anything near full strength for the majority of the match. And at the same time having that much stamina should be mandatory for being in the higher tiers in my opinion.
Last edited by Kaoz; February 15, 2014 at 08:43 AM.
So... this needs an update.
Ryoma (well, he's apparently prepared to face Byoudouin...)
SS Tier (Tanegashima Zone)
And I think we have enough data to add some more High Schoolers, right?
---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------
Also, I don't agree with your stamina theory, Kaoz. I don't think that Tachibana nor Shiraishi would have an edge on the other players of the C tier just because of 1 point in that stat.
1 point in stamina seems fairly significant though. Like for the G10 the difference between a 4 and a 5 represents whether they'll run into stamina issues during a third set or not. Why shouldn't the difference between 3 and 4 be significant as well then?
Can you clarify for who you're assuming TnK in that list? All of them?
I could only argue that its because neither players could really last 3 sets comfortably in Singles anyway maybe? And that both players would be in trouble in 3 set matches?
Also, matches between players of the C Tier... Would they be 3 set matches?
I think a 3 set match would only happen when a player is Mouri level or above for instance. It's really just a G10 level thing it seems.
If so, players with a 3 in Stamina rarely got caught in stamina-trapped situations when they're against players within their tier capability imo.
Like, its really unlikely Chitose is gonna be stamina-caught when against Shiraishi. The same thing for Fuji VS Tachibana.
In a one-set match, its much more advantageous for the guy with a 3 in Stamina than the guy with 4 since the Stamina is unlikely to be tested within that sort of tier level.
Or even that much of a contributive factor lol. I think the difference in stamina by 1 point has now only become an issue in PoT when 3 set matches are concerned.
Like, Kaidoh's stamina at 4.5 is barely even a big deal in Singles now at his Tier level imho.
I think Fuji will be able to scrape through one however, since he has no moves that really seem physically demanding unlike Chitose's Muga or Niou's "Tezuka-esque stuff".
And yes, I believe Irie has a poor stamina, but he simply outplays everyone and is capable of balancing his own stamina issues thanks to his high mental.
I'll never be ok with the idea of players using TnK at will... except maybe Tezuka, so I dunno. But Kintarou was already that high in the list and Ryoma apparently improved enough to challenge the no.1 .
I was talking about the difference between 3 and 4 stamina in a 3 set match.
3 and 4 will make a huge difference in a 3 set match for sure. However, in 1 set match, it wouldn't do much. It does shows what characters have more chance when they are playing higher level tennis, though.
I can see Tezuka in the same tier as Tanegashima. I also think Kintarou should be there. I think 10 balls is impressive enough to beat National Tezuka. And PoP Tezuka is just that with PoP. And Kintarou doesn't have move that would hurt him over 3 set match.
I do agree that Echizen shouldn't be view on the same level as Byoudonin yet. Look at Sanada. He's challenge Tanegashima but is totally pathetic and got make into complete joke as of this time (I call 6-0 a complete joke, yes).
I don't think Kintarou should be a tier above Watanabe. If anything I'd probably put Watanabe in the Tanegashima tier before Kintarou, and actually I'm not entirely sure why Kintarou is a tier above Atobe/Yukimura/Sanada to begin with?
After further consideration, I'd also probably put Tezuka in the highest tier, because TnK!Kintarou was at least even with Oni, and I'd expect TnK!Tezuka to be at least as strong as TnK!Kintarou.
Because after Sanada getting his butt hand to him 6-0 by Tanegashima it shows that he's really no where near that level at all. Kintarou can go 1-1 game with PoP Oni, which I consider extremely high tier.
I do not even know why Tezuka would be put into higher tier than Kintarou. I'll probably put them around the same tier.
I was under the impression that we were talking about Kintarou without TnK. With it, he should probably be in the same tier as Oni.
If Tezuka's arm is alright, Tezuka wouldn't have much problem beating Kin-Chan, I think.
And all those techs are not good enough to guarantee a win against National Sanada in a 1 set match. And we know National Sanada is nothing compare to #6. He got whoop hard. Yes, I'm aware that Sanada doesn't use Rai, but the # of time he use it wouldn't be enough to win 3 set match even if he manage to score with them all (which aren't even confirm that he can score with Rai on #6). Kintarou with 10 ball can at least fight with Oni before he use Kishin aura, which is #5.
# of tech you have =/= how strong you are. 10 ball strike is just an extremely high tier tech. Mouri have next to no tech and he can probably defeat a lot of the old high tier from PoT without much trouble, considering the like of Renji can't even beat #17.
Last edited by -Ken-; April 11, 2014 at 09:46 PM.
I'm not sure if Tezuka is gonna use ZSS and Phantom again. Also Hyakuren and Saiki are both Muga doors - even though Tezuka did something unprecedented before by combining them both, I don't really see him using them in combination with TnK. That leaves Zone and ZSD, both of which are still good moves, but Tezuka also has higher base stats than Kintarou, so I'd think he'll have an edge when both are using TnK as well.
That said, it'd still be extremely close and either side could win. For Tezuka to pull ahead he'd need another match and an actually useable technique that's on par with what we've seen recently.
Also, since I want to avoid derailing future discussions by trying to figure whether or not Ryoma, Kintarou and Oni can use TnK (hasn't happened here, but has definitely been a thing in the past), I'd like to just place both versions of them on the list, unless we agree that they'd end up in the same tier anyway. If you don't want to discuss one of the versions, that's fine, but please pay attention to which one the discussion is about.
In this sense, I'd place all the TnK users in the highest tier, normal Ryoma on Tanegashima level and normal Kintarou on Sanada/Yukimura/Atobe level. Thoughts on either of those placements? Also, does anyone think non-TnK!Oni is not top tier?