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Thread: Singles Tier List

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles Revised (In Progress) show


    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    To be fair, if the fence is not there, you don't really know how far they will fly to Danji no Haru.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  3. #452
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Actually, Echizen use Akutsu sliding during his match with Atobe and it got counter using World of Ice.

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27198...apter-301.html

    Atobe explain why that is on the next page, here.

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27198...apter-301.html

    The point of blind spot is that it's a spot you CANNOT react to no matter what. That's its very definition. I still think Irie "erasing" blind spot is pretty stupid in itself. Akutsu most likely can't react to Atobe Kingdom. The shot that's confirm it'd been used and return, the arm get dislocated. If Akutsu truly doesn't have any blind spot, it means absolutely no shot will get pass him, so it will means that he WILL 6-0 any players he play with. If that is what you want to try to debate with, I don't think it's a good one.

    Akutsu hitting 5 and Atobe cannot isn't really argument I want to use. If that's the case, put Echizen, Sanada, Akutsu, and Kintarou above any other in the entire series who have not shown to hit 5 at a time. Yukimura also only been confirmed 2 at a time at best. I don't think it should give that much to an argument.

    I want to say to make it clear because my point normally isn't: I do think it's possible for Akutsu to beat Atobe. However, his track score right now is..

    Lose against Echizen who have not unlock the good move yet.
    Beat National Kawamura

    His track score just isn't impressive, yet. I'm SURE he'll be awesome. But I think you are giving him too much benefits of doubt right now. I'm going to wait until Akutsu match to see more on the matter.
    Like Ken said, and I said in others threads, nothing matters if player can't react to hit the ball. Akutsu can hit a shot from any physical position, Sanada can hit a shot from any position with Rai, but if they can't react in time, how will they hit the ball?

    So Airgrimes, I agree with you in parts. Sanada and Akutsu can break KS for sure, but Atobe Kingdom I have not so sure.

  4. #453
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    Post Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Like Ken said, and I said in others threads, nothing matters if player can't react to hit the ball. Akutsu can hit a shot from any physical position, Sanada can hit a shot from any position with Rai, but if they can't react in time, how will they hit the ball?

    So Airgrimes, I agree with you in parts. Sanada and Akutsu can break KS for sure, but Atobe Kingdom I have not so sure.
    If Sanada can teleport, if the ball passes him, which it definetely WILL what stops him from teleporting to the ball that passes?

    If Atobe hits an AK shot next to Akutsu, considering he has no physical movement limits on a shot he can hit, why cant he hit it if it is next to him?
    It means there is a limit to AK and that Atobe will have to hit his AK shots away from Akutsu, meaning AK is not as effective as it usually is.

    ---------- Post added at 07:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Actually, Echizen use Akutsu sliding during his match with Atobe and it got counter using World of Ice.

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27198...apter-301.html

    Atobe explain why that is on the next page, here.

    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27198...apter-301.html

    The point of blind spot is that it's a spot you CANNOT react to no matter what. That's its very definition. I still think Irie "erasing" blind spot is pretty stupid in itself. Akutsu most likely can't react to Atobe Kingdom. The shot that's confirm it'd been used and return, the arm get dislocated. If Akutsu truly doesn't have any blind spot, it means absolutely no shot will get pass him, so it will means that he WILL 6-0 any players he play with. If that is what you want to try to debate with, I don't think it's a good one.

    Akutsu hitting 5 and Atobe cannot isn't really argument I want to use. If that's the case, put Echizen, Sanada, Akutsu, and Kintarou above any other in the entire series who have not shown to hit 5 at a time. Yukimura also only been confirmed 2 at a time at best. I don't think it should give that much to an argument.

    I want to say to make it clear because my point normally isn't: I do think it's possible for Akutsu to beat Atobe. However, his track score right now is..

    Lose against Echizen who have not unlock the good move yet.
    Beat National Kawamura

    His track score just isn't impressive, yet. I'm SURE he'll be awesome. But I think you are giving him too much benefits of doubt right now. I'm going to wait until Akutsu match to see more on the matter.
    Thanks a lot for this Ken.
    Your right, Atobe is slightly above Akutsu at this very moment as far as we know then.
    But I think the gap is relatively small.

    Also, @Ken, your right about the 5ball thing not being that much, however despite other top guys like Yukimura, Tezuka, Atobe, Fuji, Shiraishi not being able to hit 5 at a time, the Mountain Coach did say that you cant compete with Tokugawa and Oni without hitting 10.

    Only Echizen can hit 10 so I dont know what this means, but it is still an argument.

    ---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 AM ----------

    So we now have:

    Spoiler show


    Atobe is above Akutsu due to lack of evidence for Akutsu being above Atobe.
    Atobe has failed to stamp his place at the very top despite getting the most screentime im afraid.

  5. #454
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Well, I'll try again... I see 3 ways Atobe winning against Sanada.

    Like I said before, Rai will not work at all, if the ball was thrown too far away of him, he can't react at time and, as we have seen recently, Mouri dislocated his shoulder to try to hit a shot at his absolute blind spot (Zettai Shikaku), so I don't have any reason to see happen in different way with Sanada.

    Second reason is, in a long match, Atobe has more stamina than Sanada and, as we have seen before, he can't use Rai much time, and if he really improved your stamina while using Rai, Atobe improved too, so in some moment, he will fall down. Tezuka has stamina 3 in Shin Pot and as we seen before, he kept standing up againt Sanada, even him having abandoned the battle and saving stamina, he still fell down.

    Last Reason is even Sanada using IN, it will work with Koori no Sekai but not with Atobe Kingdom, because second sees at skeleton level.

    So, with Rai and IN sealed, it comes Black Aura. We haven't seen much more, I can't say for sure, but I think the body covered with a black aura, can seal Atobe Kingdom.

    Given all this evidence, I still do not believe that Atobe can't be in the same category as Sanada. Depending on the direction of match, I'm sure he can win but can also lose.

  6. #455
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    Green Grin Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Well, I'll try again... I see 3 ways Atobe winning against Sanada.

    Like I said before, Rai will not work at all, if the ball was thrown too far away of him, he can't react at time and, as we have seen recently, Mouri dislocated his shoulder to try to hit a shot at his absolute blind spot (Zettai Shikaku), so I don't have any reason to see happen in different way with Sanada.
    We know that time isnt a problem with Rai. Rai is when the shot has gone long past Sanada, and against a normal opponent, the point would be out.
    However due to Rai, he teleports to the ball.

    But now that you have put this way
    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Second reason is, in a long match, Atobe has more stamina than Sanada and, as we have seen before, he can't use Rai much time, and if he really improved your stamina while using Rai, Atobe improved too, so in some moment, he will fall down. Tezuka has stamina 3 in Shin Pot and as we seen before, he kept standing up againt Sanada, even him having abandoned the battle and saving stamina, he still fell down.
    But Atobe cannot use Atobe Kingdom consecutively very long as he has showed us.

    For most of Atobe/Niou VS Ochi/Mouri, he has not used Atobe Kingdom.
    Against Irie, it drained him so much within a game or two that he freaking fainted lol.
    Atobe Kingdom is not a technique that can take Atobe through a whole set.

    So Atobe using Atobe Kingdom doesnt confirm it will win him more than one set. Let's face it. His stamina is amazing but he will just be a moving around like a helpless sealion as he as been doing at times against Ochi/Mouri.
    Remember Atobe got destroyed 6-0 love here.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Last Reason is even Sanada using IN, it will work with Koori no Sekai but not with Atobe Kingdom, because second sees at skeleton level.

    So, with Rai and IN sealed, it comes Black Aura. We haven't seen much more, I can't say for sure, but I think the body covered with a black aura, can seal Atobe Kingdom.

    Given all this evidence, I still do not believe that Atobe can't be in the same category as Sanada. Depending on the direction of match, I'm sure he can win but can also lose.
    To be fair, Atobe Kingom cannot constantly be used for the straight 3 set match as far as we know. Atobe looks like he is about to die after using it for a few games.
    What's to stop Sanada from using FuuRinKaZan and then going full blast later in the game?

    Atobe hasnt shown that he can use Atobe Kingdom for a whole set consecutively like Sanada almost can do with Rai.

    Atobe Kingdom is THE ONLY way Atobe could score against Sanada.

    ---------- Post added at 07:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 AM ----------

    @mystictapion
    I'll consider putting Atobe in a higher tier, but putting Atobe against Niou, he is dead.
    Atobe cant do a thing againts Zero Shiki Serve or Tezuka Zone lol. Let alone Phantom.
    Atobe is Niou level.

    Tell me what he can do to NOT lose to Niou lol. Since Niou only has to hit ZSS for 3 games and then Tezuka Phantom for the other 3 and that's a set done haha.
    Atobe kingdom is ineffective if it cant land in the Court lol.

    While Sanada can stop Tezuka Phantom.
    Yukimura is stated in the manga to see through all special shots, explaining why he returned Samurai Drive so ZSS will be returned just like Mouri returned it.
    Even Fuji seals it off with Closed Eye combined with Cord Ball.

    ---------- Post added at 07:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 AM ----------

    But your right, I now see Atobe beating Sanada being possible now.
    Depends on the feedback of others on here. Not enough people comment on this thread for a change. If others come supporting the theory it will be changed for sure

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  8. #456
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    We know that time isnt a problem with Rai. Rai is when the shot has gone long past Sanada, and against a normal opponent, the point would be out.
    However due to Rai, he teleports to the ball.
    It's seems fair enough to me. So, some considerations.

    Rai, like Shukuchi, isn't a teleport. Yanagi said 'speed of light', so it's a violent speed that appears him is teleporting.
    Complementing, Atobe doesn't need to use AK all the time in this case, he can seal Rai in a long match, forcing Sanada to stop with Rai to save stamina.
    Another case to seal Rai it'd be in the moment the ball kicks the ground, even Sanada being capable to reach the ball, he'll not go, due AK, or he'll go, but can to force too much your legs and break, dislocate or something. Rai will work while the ball doesn't arrive on absolute blind spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    But now that you have put this way

    But Atobe cannot use Atobe Kingdom consecutively very long as he has showed us.

    For most of Atobe/Niou VS Ochi/Mouri, he has not used Atobe Kingdom.
    Against Irie, it drained him so much within a game or two that he freaking fainted lol.
    Atobe Kingdom is not a technique that can take Atobe through a whole set.

    So Atobe using Atobe Kingdom doesnt confirm it will win him more than one set. Let's face it. His stamina is amazing but he will just be a moving around like a helpless sealion as he as been doing at times against Ochi/Mouri.
    Remember Atobe got destroyed 6-0 love here.
    Agree with you. He lost 6 games consecutively, maybe the things would be different now (or not, Irie hasn't showed your real power to anyone), but like I said above, using AK in some moments, it appears to me a good strategy against Sanada to save stamina and to carry for a long match with the objective to seal Rai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    To be fair, Atobe Kingom cannot constantly be used for the straight 3 set match as far as we know. Atobe looks like he is about to die after using it for a few games.
    What's to stop Sanada from using FuuRinKaZan and then going full blast later in the game?

    Atobe hasnt shown that he can use Atobe Kingdom for a whole set consecutively like Sanada almost can do with Rai.

    Atobe Kingdom is THE ONLY way Atobe could score against Sanada.
    Agreed. If it was a battle AK vs Rai, Atobe would lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    @mystictapion
    I'll consider putting Atobe in a higher tier, but putting Atobe against Niou, he is dead.
    Atobe cant do a thing againts Zero Shiki Serve or Tezuka Zone lol. Let alone Phantom.
    Atobe is Niou level.

    Tell me what he can do to NOT lose to Niou lol. Since Niou only has to hit ZSS for 3 games and then Tezuka Phantom for the other 3 and that's a set done haha.
    Atobe kingdom is ineffective if it cant land in the Court lol.

    While Sanada can stop Tezuka Phantom.
    Yukimura is stated in the manga to see through all special shots, explaining why he returned Samurai Drive so ZSS will be returned just like Mouri returned it.
    Even Fuji seals it off with Closed Eye combined with Cord Ball.
    Really, I don't see how rofl. But how can Sanada stop phantom? If it is like i'm thinking, Atobe would stop too.
    Even yet, Niou is above Atobe, so maybe you consider to put Niou in a higher tier too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    But your right, I now see Atobe beating Sanada being possible now.
    Depends on the feedback of others on here. Not enough people comment on this thread for a change. If others come supporting the theory it will be changed for sure
    Ok. Since BA wasn't totally explained, we can't say for sure. But if it was like i'm thinking, definetely BA breaks AK.

  9. #457
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    But Atobe cannot use Atobe Kingdom consecutively very long as he has showed us.

    For most of Atobe/Niou VS Ochi/Mouri, he has not used Atobe Kingdom.
    Against Irie, it drained him so much within a game or two that he freaking fainted lol.
    Atobe Kingdom is not a technique that can take Atobe through a whole set.
    This isn't really accurate. Atobe Kingdom doesn't require a lot of stamina from what we've seen, Atobe needs time to focus his Insight on the opponent's blind spots. That's why it's easier for him to do it in Synchro, because he can see through his partner's eyes while still being able to concentrate on the ball with his own.

    This is very nicely shown when he returns Mach. He has to focus his Insight only on the ball in order to being able to react to the shot, so he doesn't have the time needed to find the opponent's blind spots in time for the return. And while Ochi/Mouri don't hit the most powerful shots in the world, they are pretty accurate, so that's probably why he again didn't have enough time during the rallies.

    And against Irie, the reason why he hurt his ankle was that he slipped because of the snow, nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    So Atobe using Atobe Kingdom doesnt confirm it will win him more than one set. Let's face it. His stamina is amazing but he will just be a moving around like a helpless sealion as he as been doing at times against Ochi/Mouri.
    Remember Atobe got destroyed 6-0 love here.
    You mean in the set where he had to cover a whole doubles court by himself?




    I'm not saying that Atobe would beat Sanada. As I see it, the combination of BA and Rai should make it almost impossible for Atobe to hit AK since they are either very fast or have random movement added to them. The former should be comparable to Mach in that it cuts the time Atobe has to react to the shot by quite a bit, the latter's movement should require Insight as well.

  10. #458
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    Post Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Rai, like Shukuchi, isn't a teleport. Yanagi said 'speed of light', so it's a violent speed that appears him is teleporting.
    Complementing, Atobe doesn't need to use AK all the time in this case, he can seal Rai in a long match, forcing Sanada to stop with Rai to save stamina.
    Another case to seal Rai it'd be in the moment the ball kicks the ground, even Sanada being capable to reach the ball, he'll not go, due AK, or he'll go, but can to force too much your legs and break, dislocate or something. Rai will work while the ball doesn't arrive on absolute blind spot.
    I never actually considered this. Even if Sanada teleports away, his bones could end up facing more danger if Atobe combines World of Ice + Atobe Kingdom like he showed. Making Rai last less longer.
    I do wish somebody explained this to us in the massive shitstorm of an argument we had on Atobe VS Sanada a few months ago in another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Agree with you. He lost 6 games consecutively, maybe the things would be different now (or not, Irie hasn't showed your real power to anyone), but like I said above, using AK in some moments, it appears to me a good strategy against Sanada to save stamina and to carry for a long match with the objective to seal Rai.
    Hmm. Sealing Rai for some games and using World of Ice when not may work.
    Do you think Rai can counter World of Ice btw? I am in the belief that Rai counters World of Ice.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Agreed. If it was a battle AK vs Rai, Atobe would lose.
    Simply what Im thinking. What is to stop Atobe from collapsing constantly?
    I hope fans realize that Sanada isnt Irie. He is from Rikkai Dai. They all hit hard whenever they can.
    Sanada wont do anything ''for fun'' lol. Sanada wont be saying ''Just Kidding'' or pretending to want to end the match like Irie. He will end it lol.

    Had Atobe showed us he can use AK for a long time for consecutive games, then I would gladly accept him in Yuki/Sanada level.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Really, I don't see how rofl. But how can Sanada stop phantom? If it is like i'm thinking, Atobe would stop too.
    Even yet, Niou is above Atobe, so maybe you consider to put Niou in a higher tier too.
    According to Fayte on here, Sanada used Rin to lessen Tezuka Phantom. I dont remember it. The anime likely skipped the mentioning of it since the anime from Nationals onwards are all fantastic matches scrammed into anything from 17-13 mins.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Ok. Since BA wasn't totally explained, we can't say for sure. But if it was like i'm thinking, definetely BA breaks AK.
    Im not even sure if BA even breaks AK. I just think it amplifies the already powerful Sanada beyond what Atobe could handle.
    I think it prevents Atobe from being able to really rally with Sanada.

    Im in the belief that the only guys who will be able to rally with BA!Sanada will be Yuki, Tezuka(God), Ryoma, and the non-fodder HSers after Atobe's disappointing showing here against Ochi/Mouri.
    He is someone who I have high hopes for but with all the screentime he gets he is always used by Konomi for awesome dramatic moments and never to show off his strength.

    Niou isnt Yuki or Sanada level.
    Unless... We break the tier that Atobe is in again. And have just Niou and Atobe for now in their own tier.

  11. #459
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Someone could explain me the difference between Atobe Kingdom, World of Ice and the Insight that he already had in Kanto Tournament (against Tezuka)?
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Someone could explain me the difference between Atobe Kingdom, World of Ice and the Insight that he already had in Kanto Tournament (against Tezuka)?
    Insight: This isn't really a technique as much as it is a 'talent.' Atobe has a knack for being able to read the opponent's current weaknesses. For example, if Atobe was present during the Momoshiro-Sengoku match, he would've been the first person to realize that Momoshiro had cramped his legs despite his efforts to hide it.

    World of Ice: Because human eyes are not able to perceive 360-degree vision at any given time, everyone has a 'blind spot' on the tennis court. This is a spot that they cannot react to. Atobe hits the ball in one of these spots. The only known way to avoid these blind spots are as follows:

    1. Use a technique to 'suck' the ball towards yourself, ie. Tezuka Zone, as the ball will veer away from the blind spot;
    2. (And this is complete theory) 'Fake your blind spots.' This is presumingly what Yukimura and Irie (more the latter than the former) did to defeat the technique;

    Atobe Kingdom: The most superior version of Atobe's insight. It's usually portrayed as Atobe having X-ray vision, but this is not how the technique works. No, he cannot actually see the opponent's bones. Via Atobe Kingdom, Atobe can identify the blind spots within the human body rather than on the court, and these are known as Zettai Shikaku, the "Certain Blind Spots."

    Taking the nature of these skills into account, it's easy to see how Nioh can mimic them, given Nioh's own knack for observation.

    And for sake of discussion, Momoshiro's insight is completely different. His insight is actually foresight.
    Last edited by Brandnewkid; June 17, 2012 at 02:10 AM.

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  14. #461
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji Kikumaru View Post
    Someone could explain me the difference between Atobe Kingdom, World of Ice and the Insight that he already had in Kanto Tournament (against Tezuka)?
    Like Brandnewkid said.
    World of Ice is places on the court that will be impossible for the opponent to return. Relying on the opponents blind spots.

    Atobe Kingdom is places that the opponent is physically unable to get to. Almost X-Ray vision is used here. Blind spot or not, the opponent physically wont be able to get to it.

    Combined, it is an amazing combination. The focus required however would be immense and wont really be able to be sustained for more than a few games.

    Insight is Atobe's exclusive ability. Its what separates him from the rest and places him near the top. He knows when to attack and massacre his opponent, when to hold back and how to see through play styles.
    Just like Yukimura's exclusice ability was to see through special shots,
    Irie's exclusive ability to understand his opponents completely and understanding the play styles, technique extremely quickly.
    And there are many others who have exclusive abilities in this illogical sports series.

    ---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

    Shiraishi VS Fuji.
    Currently as the story is now, who would win?

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Shiraishi. He's Yukimura Lite. Fuji can evolve all the way until he's blue in the face, his shots are still too fancy.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    Shiraishi. He's Yukimura Lite. Fuji can evolve all the way until he's blue in the face, his shots are still too fancy.
    It's not certain. Taking off the Golden Gauntlet may give Shiraishi enough power to completely break Heca, but we can't be sure. If the power up doesn't fully break Heca, Hoshi Hanabi beats Shiraishi. It's an uncertain situation; it could go either way.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    It's not certain. Taking off the Golden Gauntlet may give Shiraishi enough power to completely break Heca, but we can't be sure. If the power up doesn't fully break Heca, Hoshi Hanabi beats Shiraishi. It's an uncertain situation; it could go either way.
    Change your avatar.

    Shiraishi didn't even need to take off the GG to break Heca. Hoshi Hanabi is an easier Counter to return, since Fuji's just hitting the ball super-duper high.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    Shiraishi didn't even need to take off the GG to break Heca. Hoshi Hanabi is an easier Counter to return, since Fuji's just hitting the ball super-duper high.
    Which is why Niou returned Heca with little to no problems, but didn't stand a chance against Hoshi Hanabi, right?

    Also, he was referring to breaking as in, returning it without a cord ball, something that Shiraishi couldn't do back then.

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