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Thread: Singles Tier List

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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; December 16, 2013 at 03:25 PM.

    Spoiler show

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    If you think Kirihara > Inui, would you also say Kaidou > Yanagi? I'm thinking that Yanagi beats Kirihara and Inui beats Kaidou due to having their data, and they might lose against the other one. You could probably order those four in any way and it wouldn't be incorrect.
    At that time, Yanagi>Inui>Kirihara>Kaidoh IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why does Gin beat Kaidou?



    The last Hados also seem to take a lot of energy to be used, I doubt that Gin can keep those up over 6 games. On the other hand, Gin's serves weren't even on the same level as Lv 1 Hadokyuus, so Krauser should be able to hit those back without problems. Then Krauser has probably better speed and technique and Gin doesn't have the agility to dodge a HB nor the endurance to survive against them. Gin can win here if he takes a risk with high level Hadokyuus and Krauser doesn't get out of the way, but overall Krauser has the advantage imo.
    Cause Kaidoh won't return shots that almost killed Kawamura...

    Kauser vs Gin is very debatable... But yeah probably Krauser has the upper hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Yuushi also got his hand numbed in like one point. Had Momoshiro played with full power from the beginning (or from the point Yuushi started sealing his heart), things are likely to have gone different. He also won't injure himself every time.

    Kai was S2.
    If he had played full power from the beginning he could have got injured, we don't know what really could happen. Thing is, Yuushi won.

    And Big Bang is still way better than Viking Horn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I'm pretty sure the doubles list in the OP is the up-to-date one. Will answer the rest later.
    Uhm, I made one, if it's ok...

    It only has Pairs that we've seen more than once or that we know that have been playing together for a while.

    S

    Platinum Pair - Yagyuu/Niou

    Kimijima/Tohno

    Ochi/Muuri

    A

    Mutsu Bros

    Golden Pair - Kikumaru/Oishi

    Data Pair - Inui/Yanagi

    B

    Kirihara/Shiraishi

    Taira/Hara

    Washio/Suzuki

    Two Wings of Kyūshū - Tachibana/Chitose

    Miyako/Matsudaira

    C

    Champion Pair - Marui/Jackal

    Yanagi/Kirihara

    Emerald Pair - Kaidou/Inui

    Dream Pair - Kikumaru/Fuji

    Silver Pair - Shishido/Ootori

    Kikumaru/Momoshiro

    Momoshiro/Kaidou

    Idiot Pair - Konjiki/Hitouji

    Fuji/Kawamura

    D

    Momoshiro/Kawamura

    Kamio/Ibu

    Bronze Pair - Kurobane/Amane

    Jimmies - Minami/Higashikata

    Gakuto/Yuushi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    He had no problems with Krauser, he was going easy on him during the second half. If he had just continued with targeting the corners, Krauser wouldn't have come close to winning.
    So you say that cornered shots are enough to beat Kirihara?
    Last edited by Hardy; December 30, 2012 at 04:42 PM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    In the Inui/Yanagi tag team match it's clear neither of them actually have the data of their opponent so whoever went first was going to get pummeled.

    Given Data Tennis pretty much has a model of 'more data trumps anything', you'd pretty much always want the better player go to first because then the other guy will be able to get more meaningful data and this trumps whatever inherent skill differences between the Data Tennis type guys. For example we know Inui has difficulty getting Fuji's data mostly because everyone Fuji matches up is too weak for him to collect any meaningful data.

    So Yanagi should still be slightly better than Inui at this point.

    For Kirihara, since Devil Form is retconned to have a significant endurance penalty, Nakagauchi will pretty much eat Devil Form alive with his endurance style. Kirihara will probably score a bunch of points in bursts and get him totally bloddied but he'll just stand up and continue playing the same way he did against Krauser and Kirihara will collapse due to running out of energy. The power of the Angel Form is mostly unknown at this point (seems like a generic buff but unclear what extent it buffs) so it'd be hard to discuss how that works.

  4. #573
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    At that time, Yanagi>Inui>Kirihara>Kaidoh IMO
    Why though? Why does Kirihara beat Kaidou? Like, I can see an argument being made for it, but you do have to make it first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Cause Kaidoh won't return shots that almost killed Kawamura...
    Does he need to though? Sure he'll lose in a head on battle (and so does almost everybody else really), but can Gin deal with Tornado Snake and Gyro Laser? With Boomerang Snake, Short Snake etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    If he had played full power from the beginning he could have got injured, we don't know what really could happen. Thing is, Yuushi won.
    So you're saying Momoshiro is likely to get injured every time he plays against a guy whose playstyle isn't even developed around causing injuries? Also it's important to look at how a match developed, not only who was the winner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    And Big Bang is still way better than Viking Horn.
    Why is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Uhm, I made one, if it's ok...

    It only has Pairs that we've seen more than once or that we know that have been playing together for a while.
    No need for this imo. As for the list, Yagyuu/Niou isn't S Tier in my eyes, let alone at the top of the list. Niou is good, but he already had trouble against Ochi/Mouri (pre-Synchro) with a partner who is far stronger than Yagyuu.

    Also I have trouble seeing GP and DP that far above WoK. From what we know about Synchro, WoK should be stronger than GP (unless you want to argue that Oishi and Kikumaru have better stats than Tachibana and Chitose), assuming Moujuu no Synchro for them at least.

    Miyako/Matsudaira are too high. Yanagi and Inui would be able to gather their data probably, which should trivialize Flower. The only threat to Yanagi/Kirihara and Inui/Kaidou is Miyako and he's slow, so he can probably be avoided during rallies for the most part.

    There are other things I don't agree with, but those should be enough for starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    So you say that cornered shots are enough to beat Kirihara?
    More or less agreeing with what Phantron said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    So Yanagi should still be slightly better than Inui at this point.
    I wouldn't necessarily put it that way. It's advantageous for them to have Yanagi play first in that match regardless of who is stronger due to the differences in their data tennis styles I think. Yanagi doesn't analyze the opponent as much before the match according to the Pair Puri, so it makes more sense for Inui to stand back and get the data he needs when possible.

    ---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Again Kaoz, there are characters who haven't played Singles but could easily fit on the list based on the abilities we saw of them.
    I don't think the tier list should be so strict as to people who have only been in On Screen Singles matches.
    I'm pretty sure I asked for a list of who else you'd like to include before and didn't get anything in response.

  5. #574
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    In the Inui/Yanagi tag team match it's clear neither of them actually have the data of their opponent so whoever went first was going to get pummeled.

    Given Data Tennis pretty much has a model of 'more data trumps anything', you'd pretty much always want the better player go to first because then the other guy will be able to get more meaningful data and this trumps whatever inherent skill differences between the Data Tennis type guys. For example we know Inui has difficulty getting Fuji's data mostly because everyone Fuji matches up is too weak for him to collect any meaningful data.

    So Yanagi should still be slightly better than Inui at this point.
    I wouldn't be so sure.
    I'm sorry but it's not like Mitsuya had data on Yanagi, yet he kicked his ass completely. Completely.
    Yanagi died on the court.

    Given that Yanagi gave up on data and played tennis like a regular dude kinda showed that he wasn't even trying to necessarily give Inui data.
    Yanagi even retired from the match since he felt he had no chance.
    I think you've given nothing to prove Yanagi > Inui.
    I would say they're equal but no way is Yanagi the stronger one right now.

    Quote Quote:
    For Kirihara, since Devil Form is retconned to have a significant endurance penalty, Nakagauchi will pretty much eat Devil Form alive with his endurance style. Kirihara will probably score a bunch of points in bursts and get him totally bloddied but he'll just stand up and continue playing the same way he did against Krauser and Kirihara will collapse due to running out of energy. The power of the Angel Form is mostly unknown at this point (seems like a generic buff but unclear what extent it buffs) so it'd be hard to discuss how that works.
    Except DM!Kirihara completely trashed Krauser in the blink of an eye.
    DM!Kirihara poses a completely different threat than Krauser. He is clearly far more dangerous than the Southern Cross considering he survived it and massacred Krauser.

    I don't see why people are underestimating Kirihara.
    I don't necessarily see Nakagauchi > Kirihara from that and I think Kirihara can edge it. He's not even trying to score points or KO his opponent like Nakagauchi, he just wants to dye them red.
    I agree with Hardy, his Speed rockets when he goes DM. Cornered shots aren't gonna really stop Kirihara.

    And as much as it sucks, Angle Mode is exclusive to pairing with Shiraishi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    At that time, Yanagi>Inui>Kirihara>Kaidoh IMO
    Well at Nationals, Kaidoh had Devil Mode in addition to Gyro Laser and the Snakes. So Kaidoh > Kirihara no matter what the situation in Nationals.

    In U-17 Camp, Kaidoh will still edge out Kirihara since despite his insanity, he cannot handle the snakes and Gyro Laser from the same stance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Does he need to though? Sure he'll lose in a head on battle (and so does almost everybody else really), but can Gin deal with Tornado Snake and Gyro Laser? With Boomerang Snake, Short Snake etc.?.
    In theory, as both Kirihara and Kaidoh can hit some Snakes, the sharp curve elminates the chance to hit high level power shots.
    Kaidoh and Kirihara should bt Gin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    So you're saying Momoshiro is likely to get injured every time he plays against a guy whose playstyle isn't even developed around causing injuries? Also it's important to look at how a match developed, not only who was the winner.
    Had Momo gone all power earlier, I think Yushi would have survived by staying at the back of the court with two hands on the racket.
    I mean, Marui can return Momo's power from the back of the court with one hand.
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27098...apter-201.html
    With power wrists on.

    I don't think Yushi would be helpless if he could prepare for the shot.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm pretty sure I asked for a list of who else you'd like to include before and didn't get anything in response.
    Hirakoba - Habu, Shukuchiho
    Marui - Wonder Castle, Tightrope, Pole Shot, Temporal Hell Difference
    Shishido - Dash, Rising Counter
    Tohno - Execution Methods individually has to be above Ochi,
    Kimijima - Didn't even do a lot of the match at 60% as he thought it was too much, effortlessy defated Nationals!Marui in net play
    Chinen - bt Nationals!Tanishi, has Shukuchiho so must be in Kai's tier.
    Hakamada - Must be stronger than Mitsuya, so he's above Inui/Yanagi lvl. Vanishi cannot be predicted,
    Fuwa - Prediction does not work due to Closed Eyes, He must be the strongest player out of the No.11-20 group
    Minami - Must be individually stronger than Mizuki since Minami reached 7th Court whilst Mizuki could only reach 9th Court. When only 5th Court and 6th Court was filled up.

    I'll continue this list soon. But I do think there are others we can add to this list, I think we have more info than we realize.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; December 31, 2012 at 10:51 AM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post

    Well at Nationals, Kaidoh had Devil Mode in addition to Gyro Laser and the Snakes. So Kaidoh > Kirihara no matter what the situation in Nationals.
    I would debate this. Konomi did not know he was going to continue PoT at the time. Kaidoh did not get devil mode. That was just fanservice to lighten the loss. Kaidoh will never use that again. Kirihara is still better than Kaidoh during the Nationals.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    I would debate this. Konomi did not know he was going to continue PoT at the time. Kaidoh did not get devil mode. That was just fanservice to lighten the loss. Kaidoh will never use that again. Kirihara is still better than Kaidoh during the Nationals.
    You think I don't know that?
    However, in that Nationals match, when there was no sequel planned, Konomi handed Kaidoh DM for fanservice sure, but fanservice or not, he had DM at the Nationals.
    Regardless of the DM, Kirihara was helpless against Gyro laser and the snakes from the same stance.
    He was completely defeated by it.

    If you look at it from a neutral view, how could Kaidoh lose?
    Kaidoh > Kirihara.

    I just want somebody to state why Kirihara is better like Kaoz has already asked.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    You think I don't know that?
    However, in that Nationals match, when there was no sequel planned, Konomi handed Kaidoh DM for fanservice sure, but fanservice or not, he had DM at the Nationals.
    Regardless of the DM, Kirihara was helpless against Gyro laser and the snakes from the same stance.
    He was completely defeated by it.

    If you look at it from a neutral view, how could Kaidoh lose?
    Kaidoh > Kirihara.

    I just want somebody to state why Kirihara is better like Kaoz has already asked.
    Here, I'll try.

    Kirihara is better than Kaidoh because he's not afraid to just hit another person to win the match. Thus, Kirihara's team manage to win that match.

    Direct confrontation, based on what we've seen? I don't see anything.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  11. #578
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    It's difficult to judge based on a direct confrontation, simply because it never happened. Kaidou's laser-snake combination destroyed red eyes Kirihara, but Devil Akaya never had to face it in the first place. It depends on whether you think the increased speed and mental strength is enough to return it and finish the job before he runs out of stamina.

    ---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Hirakoba - Habu, Shukuchiho
    Marui - Wonder Castle, Tightrope, Pole Shot, Temporal Hell Difference
    Shishido - Dash, Rising Counter
    Tohno - Execution Methods individually has to be above Ochi,
    Kimijima - Didn't even do a lot of the match at 60% as he thought it was too much, effortlessy defated Nationals!Marui in net play
    Chinen - bt Nationals!Tanishi, has Shukuchiho so must be in Kai's tier.
    Hakamada - Must be stronger than Mitsuya, so he's above Inui/Yanagi lvl. Vanishi cannot be predicted,
    Fuwa - Prediction does not work due to Closed Eyes, He must be the strongest player out of the No.11-20 group
    Minami - Must be individually stronger than Mizuki since Minami reached 7th Court whilst Mizuki could only reach 9th Court. When only 5th Court and 6th Court was filled up.
    Chinen and Mizuki are already on the list. Hirakoba is too I think actually. Yagyuu, Marui and Shishido should be alright. Tohno and Hakamada are very borderline, we've only seen their special moves and very little to nothing from their stats. Kimijima, Fuwa and Minami are all a big no.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    It's difficult to judge based on a direct confrontation, simply because it never happened. Kaidou's laser-snake combination destroyed red eyes Kirihara, but Devil Akaya never had to face it in the first place. It depends on whether you think the increased speed and mental strength is enough to return it and finish the job before he runs out of stamina.
    Coincidentally that it's debatable even without Kaidoh devil mode, Devil Ayaka never actually have a chance to fight with Devil Kaidoh either.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Laser-snake combo at worst can put up a decent fight against devil mode, because if it's anything less than that Kirihara would've just attacke Kaidoh instead. The fact that didn't happen implies Kaidoh can at least defend himself against devil mode. Given devil mode is retconned to have a significant penalty this means even if all you do is defend against it you'd win over time rather easily due to devil mode's drawbacks.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    No, not necessarily. If Kirihara wants to torture Kaidou mentally, he'll attack Inui regardless of whether he could take on Kaidou head on or not.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why though? Why does Kirihara beat Kaidou? Like, I can see an argument being made for it, but you do have to make it first.
    There isn't a page that says that Kirihara in DM can't hit back Kaidoh's shots, in fact, we saw in that match how Akaya almost killed Inui. You can say too that "kaidoh could just play defensively and wait till Kirihara runs out of energy" cause we all know that DM tires the hell out of him... but how many times have we seen that? Kirihara losing a match because he was tired? Yeah, never, cause it'll never happen.

    BTW, Kaidoh never hit a tennis ball in DM, so he doesn't have it and never will.

    Also, offtopic but who cares, Kirihara is probably the only player that got a downgrade in PoT history (come on, DM over Muga? who the hell wants that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Does he need to though? Sure he'll lose in a head on battle (and so does almost everybody else really), but can Gin deal with Tornado Snake and Gyro Laser? With Boomerang Snake, Short Snake etc.?

    So you're saying Momoshiro is likely to get injured every time he plays against a guy whose playstyle isn't even developed around causing injuries? Also it's important to look at how a match developed, not only who was the winner.
    In PoT the only character that has the "dodge" ability is Marui, everyone else is a dumbass that tries to hit every single ball, even if it would kill you. Considering that kaidoh is one of the most stubborn characters in the series, I'm pretty sure he would try to hit back some hadous and die in the act. I'm aware that he has his snakes and all that crap, but he'd end up injured by one of Gin's serves or returns.

    About the Momo thing... I was just talking crap, cause you never know what would have happened, but you know WHAT happened, Yuushi won. And I think the result is more improtant actually, we're debating who would win, not who would peform better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why is that?
    Maybe cause Big Bang is a serve that gave Ryoma troubles, and VH is just a delayed shot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    No need for this imo. As for the list, Yagyuu/Niou isn't S Tier in my eyes, let alone at the top of the list. Niou is good, but he already had trouble against Ochi/Mouri (pre-Synchro) with a partner who is far stronger than Yagyuu.

    Also I have trouble seeing GP and DP that far above WoK. From what we know about Synchro, WoK should be stronger than GP (unless you want to argue that Oishi and Kikumaru have better stats than Tachibana and Chitose), assuming Moujuu no Synchro for them at least.

    Miyako/Matsudaira are too high. Yanagi and Inui would be able to gather their data probably, which should trivialize Flower. The only threat to Yanagi/Kirihara and Inui/Kaidou is Miyako and he's slow, so he can probably be avoided during rallies for the most part.

    There are other things I don't agree with, but those should be enough for starters.
    I just wanted to help -.-

    How do you know that Atobe is better at doubles than Yagyuu? In fact, I think Yagyuu is the best partner for Niou (who is the best doubles player in the series), that's why I have them up there.

    I won't assume Moujuu no Synchro until we see it winning some points. Everthing we know about it it's that it wasn't enough to beat a pair that only had synchro. So, GP> WoK in my eyes. DP well, I think they are at the same level as GP.

    Miyako/Matsudaira too high... I can agree with that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    More or less agreeing with what Phantron said.
    More or less agreeing with what Aigrimes said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    S

    Platinum Pair - Yagyuu/Niou

    Kimijima/Tohno

    Ochi/Muuri

    A

    Mutsu Bros

    Golden Pair - Kikumaru/Oishi

    Data Pair - Inui/Yanagi

    B

    Kirihara/Shiraishi

    Taira/Hara

    Washio/Suzuki

    Two Wings of Kyūshū - Tachibana/Chitose

    C

    Yanagi/Kirihara

    Emerald Pair - Kaidou/Inui

    Miyako/Matsudaira

    Champion Pair - Marui/Jackal

    Dream Pair - Kikumaru/Fuji

    Silver Pair - Shishido/Ootori

    Kikumaru/Momoshiro

    Momoshiro/Kaidou

    Idiot Pair - Konjiki/Hitouji

    Fuji/Kawamura

    D

    Momoshiro/Kawamura

    Kamio/Ibu

    Bronze Pair - Kurobane/Amane

    Jimmies - Minami/Higashikata

    Gakuto/Yuushi
    Fixed.
    Last edited by Hardy; January 03, 2013 at 02:51 PM.

  16. #583
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    There isn't a page that says that Kirihara in DM can't hit back Kaidoh's shots, in fact, we saw in that match how Akaya almost killed Inui.
    We haven't actually seen him return Kaidou's shots either though, and it's a fact that he wasn't able to do it in REM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    You can say too that "kaidoh could just play defensively and wait till Kirihara runs out of energy" cause we all know that DM tires the hell out of him... but how many times have we seen that? Kirihara losing a match because he was tired? Yeah, never, cause it'll never happen.
    So no character that ran out of stamina before will ever run out of stamina? Guess the counter punchers are pretty screwed then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Also, offtopic but who cares, Kirihara is probably the only player that got a downgrade in PoT history (come on, DM over Muga? who the hell wants that).
    It depends on how you look at it. We technically haven't seen Kaidou use Tornado Snake and Gyro Laser in his match against Tezuka, and Momoshiro seems to magically have lost his great instinct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    In PoT the only character that has the "dodge" ability is Marui, everyone else is a dumbass that tries to hit every single ball, even if it would kill you. Considering that kaidoh is one of the most stubborn characters in the series, I'm pretty sure he would try to hit back some hadous and die in the act. I'm aware that he has his snakes and all that crap, but he'd end up injured by one of Gin's serves or returns.
    I don't really agree with this. If you apply this logic, Gin should surely be above Kirihara, Inui and Yanagi as well, at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Maybe cause Big Bang is a serve that gave Ryoma troubles, and VH is just a delayed shot...
    Ryoma also pretended for like the whole match, who knows when he could have actually started returning it. In Viking Horn's defense, it worked against Sealed Step which is one of the best coverage moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    I just wanted to help -.-
    I don't mind, but you're criticizing my list too, aren't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    How do you know that Atobe is better at doubles than Yagyuu? In fact, I think Yagyuu is the best partner for Niou (who is the best doubles player in the series), that's why I have them up there.
    I don't know whether Atobe is a better doubles player than Yagyuu in general, but if synchro gives you perfect coordination, it comes back down to who's stronger individually, and there I think Atobe is beating Yagyuu easily. Add to that that Atobe/Niou have access to Insight and Atobe Kingdom, and Yagyuu/Niou do not, and I think Atobe being the better partner here is clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    I won't assume Moujuu no Synchro until we see it winning some points. Everthing we know about it it's that it wasn't enough to beat a pair that only had synchro. So, GP> WoK in my eyes. DP well, I think they are at the same level as GP.
    If you don't want to assume MnS, that's alright then I guess.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    We haven't actually seen him return Kaidou's shots either though, and it's a fact that he wasn't able to do it in REM. So no character that ran out of stamina before will ever run out of stamina? Guess the counter punchers are pretty screwed then.
    Counter punchers that play like real life CP are screwed then* Yes. Realistic PoT is gone, the only player that will keep losing matches because of his stamina is Gakuto.

    Kirihara's everything (except stamina) raise in DM, so I'm pretty sure that he'll be able to hit back Kaidou's shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I don't really agree with this. If you apply this logic, Gin should surely be above Kirihara, Inui and Yanagi as well, at the very least.
    No.

    Yanagi and Inui would figure out how to return it without getting killed in the act. And Kirihara beat the crap out of Krauser (and we said that he was better than Gin... right?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Ryoma also pretended for like the whole match, who knows when he could have actually started returning it. In Viking Horn's defense, it worked against Sealed Step which is one of the best coverage moves.
    Yeah, Sealed Step. Kikumaru has that, the best reflexes in PoT, the best Vision in PoT, yet he had trouble with VH and Chotarou's serve. Konomi loves making Kikumaru look like a handicap player sometimes, he should have won that match 6-0. It just doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I don't mind, but you're criticizing my list too, aren't you?

    I don't know whether Atobe is a better doubles player than Yagyuu in general, but if synchro gives you perfect coordination, it comes back down to who's stronger individually, and there I think Atobe is beating Yagyuu easily. Add to that that Atobe/Niou have access to Insight and Atobe Kingdom, and Yagyuu/Niou do not, and I think Atobe being the better partner here is clear.
    You made that list in June, it's outdated and has some WTF pairs like Tezuka/Inui u.u

    What you said about Atobe and Yagyuu made sense though... where would you put Platinum Pair in the list? I think it should be above the Mutsus.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Kirihara's everything (except stamina) raise in DM, so I'm pretty sure that he'll be able to hit back Kaidou's shots.
    Well, other opinions on this please. Can Devil Akaya deal with Tornado Snake and Gyro Laser based on the stat increase from Red Eyes Kirihara or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Yanagi and Inui would figure out how to return it without getting killed in the act. And Kirihara beat the crap out of Krauser (and we said that he was better than Gin... right?)
    I'd like to hear some more detail about how they'd do that. Making the argument over Krauser doesn't work, after all, Akutagawa beat Kabaji, yet he'll never get even close to beating Tezuka.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Yeah, Sealed Step. Kikumaru has that, the best reflexes in PoT, the best Vision in PoT, yet he had trouble with VH and Chotarou's serve. Konomi loves making Kikumaru look like a handicap player sometimes, he should have won that match 6-0. It just doesn't make sense.
    Alternatively you're underrating Viking Horn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    You made that list in June, it's outdated and has some WTF pairs like Tezuka/Inui u.u
    I was talking about the singles list actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    What you said about Atobe and Yagyuu made sense though... where would you put Platinum Pair in the list? I think it should be above the Mutsus.
    It's a bit difficult to say. They should beat any synchro pair because of Niou's abilities, I'm not sure how they'd do against strong non-synchro MSer pairs though, i.e. Inui/Yanagi, Tachibana/Chitose and Shiraishi/Kirihara. If they beat those guys, they can probably go just above the twins.

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