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Thread: Singles Tier List

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles Revised (In Progress) show


    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    For the reason that Laser is Yagyuu's technique. Its almost a given that Yagyuu knows how to handle his own technique.

    Examples: Atobe schooling Ryoma when he tried to copy Tannhauser. Sanada schooling Ryoma when Ryoma tried to copy his move.
    Oni schooling Momo with Jack Knife.

    For Momoshiro i'll get back to you on it in a sec.
    Um, Airgrimes, Echizen actually successfully copies Fuu and uses it to stop Sanada's Ka. Sanada realizes that if he continues to use FuRinKaZan, Echizen will just keep copying them with Muga and he'll lose, so Sanada stops using FRKZ.

  3. #482
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    For the reason that Laser is Yagyuu's technique. Its almost a given that Yagyuu knows how to handle his own technique.

    Examples: Atobe schooling Ryoma when he tried to copy Tannhauser. Sanada schooling Ryoma when Ryoma tried to copy his move.
    Oni schooling Momo with Jack Knife.

    For Momoshiro i'll get back to you on it in a sec.
    It's already stated that Kaidoh laser is faster than Yagyuu. And Yagyuu haven't got any upgrade ever since except a snake.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Kaidou hasn't shown any great placement with his shots though, which is a quality Yagyuu possesses. They are really similar and it comes down to whether you value the better placement and probably better mental abilities or higher stamina and possibly physical strength. I personally think the former is more important given their techniques, which results in Yagyuu > Kaidou.

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  6. #484
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Um, Airgrimes, Echizen actually successfully copies Fuu and uses it to stop Sanada's Ka. Sanada realizes that if he continues to use FuRinKaZan, Echizen will just keep copying them with Muga and he'll lose, so Sanada stops using FRKZ.
    Lol, my fail.
    Well, Atobe schooling Ryoma withTannhauser, Oni schooling Momo with the Knives, Fuji handling Higuma Otoshi from Kirihara, I mean, its emphasized in the series when they say ''Its so-and-so's technique, so of course he knows how to return it!''.

    So because the Lasers are Yagyuu's move set, I kinda expect Yagyuu to know what needs to be done.

    Kaidoh is the only player to get schooled by his OWN move set so this goes against him sort of.
    Jackal schooling his Boomerang Snake and Kirihara with the Short Snake.

    And as Kaoz said, as far as we know, Kaidoh has't improved much. The moment we see Kaidoh's improvement things on the tier can change.
    In terms of technique, I believe Yagyuu > Kaidoh also.
    Just remember his proficiency with his non-dominant hand is as good as Niou's. (Niou's is amazing btw).

    ---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

    Current tier:

    Spoiler show


    @Ken, you're wondering why Momoshiro isnt lifted?
    Well, I can accept Momoshiro > Kite as I don't see Kite returning Black Jack Knife.
    Do others believe Momoshiro > Yanagi and Inui?

  7. #485
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Kaidou hasn't shown any great placement with his shots though, which is a quality Yagyuu possesses. They are really similar and it comes down to whether you value the better placement and probably better mental abilities or higher stamina and possibly physical strength. I personally think the former is more important given their techniques, which results in Yagyuu > Kaidou.
    So landing a shot in Kirihara face isn't a great placement? I think at this point, he can hit where he want. Mental strength is not confirm, not at all. If anything, Kaidoh had GREAT mental.

    ---------- Post added at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    So landing a shot in Kirihara face isn't a great placement? I think at this point, he can hit where he want. Mental strength is not confirm, not at all. If anything, Kaidoh had GREAT mental.
    @Airgrimes
    I don't see any of those returning BJK. Unfortionately, BJK currently is a tech that is yet to be return, and is used by no 5 (although he had black tomahawk). BJK is a tech that seem to completely stomp 1st stringer as we seen so far.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    So landing a shot in Kirihara face isn't a great placement? I think at this point, he can hit where he want. Mental strength is not confirm, not at all. If anything, Kaidoh had GREAT mental.
    Kaidoh has some of the worst mental abilities in the whole series. He gets angry about everything, and he can't control his emotions. Where on earth do you get the idea he has great mentality? Yagyuu is shown to be nothing but composed and in control, and also a brilliant tactician on the court being the one behind the whole "partner switch" idea. Not to mention he is extremely observant. Yagyuu is without question better than Kaidoh in this regard.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    So landing a shot in Kirihara face isn't a great placement? I think at this point, he can hit where he want.
    Going off memory here, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't aim for that, but Kirihara tried to jump into the shot's path to return it and guessed wrong.

  10. #488
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    So landing a shot in Kirihara face isn't a great placement? I think at this point, he can hit where he want. Mental strength is not confirm, not at all. If anything, Kaidoh had GREAT mental.
    Kaidoh if anything, has awful Mental. Yagyuu has better Mental by far.
    Just remember, Kaidoh only knows Gyro Laser thanks to Yagyuu.
    It took Yagyuu to say to him, ''without Snake what do you have?'' Just to make great improvement.

    Secondly, Kaidoh is the biggest victim in terms of having your own move kick your own ass.
    Jackal who also knows Boomerang Snake embarassed Kaidoh's low Mental.
    The fact that Kaidoh couldnt move coz somebody hits his move probably better than he does, stopped him from playing in a match lol. WEAK Mental im afraid there.

    But wait... It happened again! Kirihara hit a better Short Snake, Kaidoh couldnt change the game up until he brought out the move that he would not have had it not been for Yagyuu.
    Kaidoh's Mental is weaker than Yagyuu's and Kirihara's. He is only above Kirihara right this moment coz Kirihara is yet to recieve his Singles improvement.

    I personally expect Kirihara > Kaidoh once the U-17 Camp section of the story ends.

    On the subject of Momoshiro, while its true he can now use Black Jack Knife, it could have been that Hara and Taira simply have great technique with appalling power. Just like Ochi does.
    So they couldnt cope with Black Jack Knife. Although in theory, Taira could have just hit to Oshitari Kenya only, and not hit to Momoshiro at all, so there is a small plot hole in Momoshiro/Kenya beating Hara/Taira.

    Also, Shiraishi likely cannot return Black Jack Knife, along with Fuji and Atobe.
    However Atobe just has to use World of Ice on Momo, and Momo cannot handle evolved counters + 5th Counter as far as we know. You need to be amongst the Top players to handle 5th Counter it seems.

    I dont see Shiraishi, Inui, Kite and Yanagi losing to Momoshiro however I dont necessarily see them returning BJK.

    In terms of rallying, Kite was possibly above Tezuka. Kite was all over him. Tezuka had to bring out Doubled Return and TZ to win.

    I also dont think BJK would stomp just any 1st Stringer. I dont think it would stomp Ban or Date. I dont think Momoshiro's BJK will at least.
    I also see Duke, Ryoga and Byoudouin laughing at the shot. Duke we saw tuck Gin away instantly, Byoudouin we saw put Tokugawa flying with a relaxed serve and shatter a brick wall, and Ryoga casually handle the same shot.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Airgrimes, BJK is still the normal shot of Oni, who is 5th, so don't look down on it so much. While we don't know Kaji's exact level, he was still stomped by Oni. Oni stomped Kintarou, and I hope you're not suggesting that Danji and Ban are better than Kintarou. Remember Mifune's words, "If you don't have 10 at Once, you can't stand on the court with someone who has it," so it's not as if Danji and Ban could've done much against it. Even though Daishaarin can counter BJK, Kintarou still got stomped in the end. Don't forget that BJK breaks the strings of rackets for a lot of players.

    You know which Tezuka Kite beat? That's right, base!Tezuka. No Zone, no anything. He used ZSD for one moment, but that's a pretty worthless shot anyway, as it can hardly score a point against most players. You can't just say he was better at rallying than Tezuka, as he was using ODS to return base!Tezuka's shots, and there was no Zone returning the shots. Hyakuren massacred Kite in the end.
    Last edited by FrostyMouse; July 24, 2012 at 10:35 PM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Airgrimes, BJK is still the normal shot of Oni, who is 5th, so don't look down on it so much. While we don't know Kaji's exact level, he was still stomped by Oni. Oni stomped Kintarou, and I hope you're not suggesting that Danji and Ban are better than Kintarou. Remember Mifune's words, "If you don't have 10 at Once, you can't stand on the court with someone who has it," so it's not as if Danji and Ban could've done much against it. Even though Daishaarin can counter BJK, Kintarou still got stomped in the end. Don't forget that BJK breaks the strings of rackets for a lot of players.

    You know which Tezuka Kite beat? That's right, base!Tezuka. No Zone, no anything. He used ZSD for one moment, but that's a pretty worthless shot anyway, as it can hardly score a point against most players. You can't just say he was better at rallying than Tezuka, as he was using ODS to return base!Tezuka's shots, and there was no Zone returning the shots. Hyakuren massacred Kite in the end.
    Well, I was mentioning the old 1st Stringers only. So you have misunderstood. As Ken mentioned 1st Stringers.
    I already know Tooyama can handle BJK as I read the manga.

    However he may not have needed Daisharain Yama--, as he could have just been trying to overwhelm Oni like Ryoma attempted with Tokugawa.
    I am not looking down on BJK, but do you see anything wrong in saying Ryoga, Duke and Byoudouin can handle BJK?

    Maybe not Ban, but why shouldnt Date handle the Black Jack Knife? Its likely not even Oni's best technique.
    Date put two players up high into fences with one shot. Nobody has done that before.

    What does Tooyama have to do with anything? What does 10 at once have to do with Black Jack Knife?

    10ball return only has something to do with handling Oni himself, but not BJK. 10 ball return has nothing to do with the shot at all.

    Its annoying that you have clearly not read my post.
    I acknowledged already that Tezuka was not using TZ and Doubled Return ffs.

    Im using Base!Tezuka as an example. You have misunderstood. Im not saying Base!Kite either.
    But Kite abilities included, outplayed Tezuka without TZ and Doubled Return. That is what I already said.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Well, I was mentioning the old 1st Stringers only. So you have misunderstood. As Ken mentioned 1st Stringers.
    I already know Tooyama can handle BJK as I read the manga.

    However he may not have needed Daisharain Yama--, as he could have just been trying to overwhelm Oni like Ryoma attempted with Tokugawa.
    I am not looking down on BJK, but do you see anything wrong in saying Ryoga, Duke and Byoudouin can handle BJK?
    The problem is that we've seen Oni stomp people with BJK, and Hara/Taira were deathly afraid when they thought that Momo was charging BJK. Of course those three should be able to return it, but in the same vein, Oni should be able to return their techs. What I was arguing against was how you said that it shouldn't just stomp any 1st stringer, and that technically includes the 11-20. However, you appear to only be mentioning the G10 players as immune to BJK stomping, even though you used 1st stringers, which led to my confusion, as you were didn't specify and included players you didn't mean...

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Maybe not Ban, but why shouldnt Date handle the Black Jack Knife? Its likely not even Oni's best technique.
    Date put two players up high into fences with one shot. Nobody has done that before.
    Danji has power, but can you even be sure that Danji no Haru won't just be broken by BJK? Even still, Oni's significantly better overall, and even if Danji can return it, he'll still get stomped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    What does Tooyama have to do with anything? What does 10 at once have to do with Black Jack Knife?
    You were suggesting that Danji and Ban wouldn't just get stomped by BJK, whereas in the end, Kintarou essentially was just stomped by BJK, even though he could return it (the anime-only Black Tomahawk aside).

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    10ball return only has something to do with handling Oni himself, but not BJK. 10 ball return has nothing to do with the shot at all.
    Of course it only has to do with handling Oni himself, but are you suggesting that Danji could put up a good fight against Oni? That's ludicrous, and Danji would just end up bageled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    ts annoying that you have clearly not read my post.
    If I didn't read your post, why were all of my comments about specific issues in your post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I acknowledged already that Tezuka was not using TZ and Doubled Return ffs.

    Im using Base!Tezuka as an example. You have misunderstood. Im not saying Base!Kite either.
    But Kite abilities included, outplayed Tezuka without TZ and Doubled Return. That is what I already said.
    Ah, but your example was flawed. A whole bunch of higher tier players could out-rally base!Tezuka if they're using a tech, so it's not nearly as impressive as you were claiming. Once Tezuka pulled out his techs, Kite didn't win a single point and ODS was for naught. I didn't misunderstand at all. I mentioned that your example included base!Tezuka and ODS!Kite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty
    You can't just say he was better at rallying than Tezuka, as he was using ODS to return base!Tezuka's shots, and there was no Zone returning the shots. Hyakuren massacred Kite in the end.
    Last edited by FrostyMouse; July 24, 2012 at 11:32 PM.

  14. #492
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Kaidoh has some of the worst mental abilities in the whole series. He gets angry about everything, and he can't control his emotions. Where on earth do you get the idea he has great mentality? Yagyuu is shown to be nothing but composed and in control, and also a brilliant tactician on the court being the one behind the whole "partner switch" idea. Not to mention he is extremely observant. Yagyuu is without question better than Kaidoh in this regard.
    Yeah, I'm wrong on that. But I still think he got great control.

    @Kaoz. I think he did. Kaidoh's qoute after that doesn't show he regret his action, at the very least. And neither one of us can know where the character want to actually be aiming. Kirihara could be trying to jump into the shot, sure. But then Kaidoh could decide to shot at his head then. We don't know when the ball is hit. Most likely, Kirihara jump when Kaidoh about to hit his ball, making it still possible for Kaidoh to change his aim. If Kirihara jump after Kaidoh and hit his ball, that either show Kirihara is retard or gyro laser is slow, which it is not.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    The problem is that we've seen Oni stomp people with BJK, and Hara/Taira were deathly afraid when they thought that Momo was charging BJK. Of course those three should be able to return it, but in the same vein, Oni should be able to return their techs. What I was arguing against was how you said that it shouldn't just stomp any 1st stringer, and that technically includes the 11-20.
    you have misunderstood. ''Just any'' is a figure of speech for say ''not just any of them''. It should only stomp a few of them was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    However, you appear to only be mentioning the G10 players as immune to BJK stomping, even though you used 1st stringers, which led to my confusion, as you were didn't specify and included players you didn't mean...
    I mentioned Date. He is in 11-20. You misunderstood. Oni > Date, im basing that statement down to Oni being able to hit 10 at once. NOT because he has Black Jack Knife.
    I dont believe Black Jack Knife will end Date. As I said not just any, I gave the list of players I MEANT. Ryoga, Byoudouin, Duke and Date.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Danji has power, but can you even be sure that Danji no Haru won't just be broken by BJK? Even still, Oni's significantly better overall, and even if Danji can return it, he'll still get stomped.
    Your arguing an argument that never existed. I never said Date wont get stomped by Oni. Im saying I believe he wont get stomped by BJK. He will get stomped since Oni can hit 10 at once. No.s 9-20 didnt appear to be able to do such a feat.

    How on earth can you be so sure Black Jack Knife that only either damages wrists or breaks strings can take out a shot that put Kabaji and Kawamura up high into a fence and left in a bloodied state where it seems they need medical attention. BJK never made anyone bleed lol.

    Im not saying Danji no Haru > BJK, but I think its wrong to confirm BJK is all thats needed to beat Date. You have no proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    You were suggesting that Danji and Ban wouldn't just get stomped by BJK, whereas in the end, Kintarou essentially was just stomped by BJK, even though he could return it (the anime-only Black Tomahawk aside).
    I do believe BJK will not stomp Date. Maybe Ban though. In the end where did we see BJK own Tooyama? We didnt. We never did. Ever.
    Oni likely overwhelmed him with pure technique. Its completely wrong to assume BJK handled Tooyama since we saw The Super Rookie handle BJK first time.

    Why is it more likely that Oni overwhelmed Tooyama with technique? Since Oni could hit 10 at once while Tooyama was stuck on one presumably and also, Tokugawa overwhelmed Ryoma with just technique since Tokugawa is yet to show us a technique in this series.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Of course it only has to do with handling Oni himself, but are you suggesting that Danji could put up a good fight against Oni? That's ludicrous, and Danji would just end up bageled.
    WTF are you reading?
    I said, Date could return BJK. That is all. Oni will obviously defeat him. Oni is more than just BJK OBVIOUSLY. Since when BJK was returned by Tooyama he still kicked Tooyama's ass. I never said Danji could put up a good fight against Oni.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    If I didn't read your post, why were all of my comments about specific issues in your post?
    The thing is... They haven't. Seriously. They have not.

    Some of your comments have completely missed what I typed. To the point I can only presume you have seen the words Date and Oni and began your own argument.
    I honestly don't know where you saw me say Date puts up a good fight against Oni. I said Date can return BJK.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Ah, but your example was flawed. A whole bunch of higher tier players could out-rally base!Tezuka if they're using a tech, so it's not nearly as impressive as you were claiming. Once Tezuka pulled out his techs, Kite didn't win a single point and ODS was for naught. I didn't misunderstand at all. I mentioned that your example included base!Tezuka and ODS!Kite.
    My example is not flawed.

    How many players can out rally Base!Tezuka if they are using a technique? Its different. Shukichiho belongs in the '"Steps'' category.
    Special shots like Laserbeam, Fuu, Snake and Kamikakushi belong in the ''Tennis Shots'' category.

    Kite only hit normal shots and was 4-0 up against Base!Tezuka. Im not putting Tezuka down at all as I mentioned he was without TZ and Doubled Return.

    The point was on judging Kite's technique to see if Momoshiro > Kite is a fair statement.
    We are arguing for Kite's tier and Kite's tier only right now. As I am aware that a whole bunch of players could out-rally Base!Tezuka.

    Going from memory Kite and Tezuka rallied what was apparently an amazing rally for the first point in Round2 of the Nationals Singles 1.
    So it is hinted Kite has great technique.

    Lastly, It IS as impressive as I was claiming. Im not saying it puts you on top of the tier ffs, Im saying it likely puts Kite in a higher place than Momoshiro in terms of technique. That is what Ken and I were discussing btw.

    Which characters without using a special tennis shot can out-rally Base!Tezuka?
    You think Momoshiro could?
    Kite did well to out-rally Tezuka.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; July 25, 2012 at 02:53 PM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    @Kaoz. I think he did. Kaidoh's qoute after that doesn't show he regret his action, at the very least. And neither one of us can know where the character want to actually be aiming. Kirihara could be trying to jump into the shot, sure. But then Kaidoh could decide to shot at his head then. We don't know when the ball is hit. Most likely, Kirihara jump when Kaidoh about to hit his ball, making it still possible for Kaidoh to change his aim. If Kirihara jump after Kaidoh and hit his ball, that either show Kirihara is retard or gyro laser is slow, which it is not.
    Well yeah, maybe it was like that, maybe not. The panels aren't detailed enough to really imply one thing over the other. Although I would argue that if you assume Kaidou already started his swinging motion when Kirihara moved, he wouldn't have changed the shot anymore since he isn't that flexible from what we know.

    As for the quote, Kirihara wasn't really friendly to them throughout the match, trash talking them and destroying Inui's glasses. So either way, Kaidou being pissed and not apologizing, regardless of whether it was an accident or on purpose, is rather in character for him I'd think.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Tooyama > Atobe. I now believe Atobe > Tooyama.

    How can Kintaro overcome World of ICe? let alone AK.

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