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Translations: Gintama 506 (2)
Singles Tier List
Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.
Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.
Fuji with Closed Eye, 5th Counter, 4th Counter would have comfortably defeated Kirihara.
Just remember, that Nationals!Tezuka without ZSS would lose to Fuji.
You really think DM!Kirihara will comfortably handle 5th Counter? Even if it only takes a game or two from DM!Kirihara, Closed Eye + Cord Ball is going to be too much and then when he returns 5th Counter he is greeted by 6th Counter which I can tell you Kirihara won't be returning no matter what.
I think its clear that violent play style won't work on Fuji a second time
Fuji would wipe the floor with him.
And sure, Kaidoh moved up to Kirihara's tier.
Either way, Kirihara is far from Fuji tier. Fuji would kick his ass.
At what stage in the story?
I'm assuming Nationals Singles would have to have had Niou out of the Singles position and he wouldn't have been given Illusion.
Rikkai would have 9 regulars that were all good at Singles lol.
Kintaro, along with Tezuka, are the only two middle schoolers of any significant ability to have never lost to Ryoma in a match (Fuji quitting halfway in practice counts as a loss, you know there's no way Ryoma would lose that match if it finished) so I think he's doing pretty good for the backup main character.
Not counting the main character(s), there's always this tier of characters who are out of reach for mere mortals, like Tezuka, Atobe, and Sanada, and a few others depending on what just recently happened in the story. After that you got the next tier of characters who at least could challenge this 'god tier'. Fuji is obviously one of them, and originally Kirihara was supposed to be one of them. This tier is actually pretty potent. You wouldn't expect Kaidoh to have a chance against any of those 3 guys even if he has a Super Saiyan Devil Form because guys like Tezuka simply don't lose to Kaidoh. Even someone like WoK isn't in this tier, because again Tezuka-tier characters simply don't lose to WoK level characters. Until Kirihara became totally irrelevent in NPOT, he was someone who had a shot at beating someone in this tier, so by extension Krauser defeating him easily prior to Devil Form says a lot about his power too.
Of course by NPOT it's not clear why Kirihara ever thought he had a remote chance of beating someone in that tier when he gets smoked by Yanagi (who is definitely not in that tier). Right now I think even a bottom tier Seigaku player have a good chance of beating him especially given all the bottom tier Seigaku players become Black Jackets.
No, I've said before that they can go either way. I don't care who is above the other at the moment.
I think it was 4 games. Kawamura won't target the corners over and over though, so not really relevant. He survived 12 games against Kirihara.
If 108th was beyond what Ban could handle, and Kirihara ravaged Krauser, then Krauser isn't going to be able to handle the shot that took out a floodlight imo.
And he survived 7 games and was sent crashing to the ground at the end.
5 of those games was against what I think was BM!Kirihara. DM!Kirihara is a different player, against DM!Kirihara it was a straight onslaught.
Kawamura's rallying skills are no longer dull, or rather they shouldn't be by your theory you suggested eariler when you said you think all the BJB guys have 4ball.
Krauser's rallying isn't necessarily great but sure it's solid.
After his training, Kawamura will bt Krauser. It's not to say Krauser particularly improved since Nationals. Same reliance on SC since then.
BJB on average improved at a much better rate, Kawamura himself can now hit a range of the degrees of Hadoukyuu from what we've seen.
Akutagawa is in the tier that can shit on Yuuta. He must have shat on Twist Spin Shot so we can eliminate Kick Serve.
The cord balls? Not gonna really be too much of a problem since Akutagawa is almost always at the net.
After seeing how he caught Kabaji's copy of MV so neatly, Jirou has this in the bag.
It really is against Ibu since he hasn't improved notably since Districts. Ibu is one of the worst treated characters.
Konomi definitely didn't know he was going to make Yanagi lose later on in the manner he did. At this point in PoT2, it was still PoT1 tiers. Yanagi was still one of the best at this point. Being defeated by him is not an insult.Originally Posted by Phantron
Fayte, Akaya isn't as good technically as Shiraishi, and even if Akaya does manage to half-return Heca (something that's not clear), Hoshi Hanabi will just beat Akaya over the head.
In terms of the CE thing, I don't care whether or not you think CE's a joke. The fact is that Konomi put it in there, so you have to accept it and stop trying to ignore it just because you don't like it.
I concede Kawamura > Krauser, if nobody argues against it within the next ~48 hours, I'll switch them.
More input on the following please:
-Nakagauchi vs Kirihara
Fact is though that a gimped Fuji had a lead against Echizen when they stopped; not saying he would have won for sure, but counting it as a loss is kind of ridiculous.
Last edited by Kaoz; January 11, 2013 at 06:05 AM.
So now we're here, Kirihara will take Houou Gaeshi, but Kirin Otoshi? It's beyond Kirihara simply because the two-handed one won't be overpowered by his smash.
To say Kirihara is equal to Shiraishi and Tachibana is a bit of a stretch.
and 5th Counter Kirhara will not be returning anytime soon. It took Shiraishi 3 straight games to just knock it over the net.
and everybody on here will agree Shiraishi > Kirihara definetely so it will probably have taken Kirihara 4 games at the minimum at Nationals.
So we're already at 4-0 Fuji.
Whether you like it or not Fayte, Fuji's skill gets sharper in Closed Eyes State. [url]
Its stated at Regionals Fuji surpassed Tezuka through Closed Eyes and he did the same against Niou.
If you can't accept what Konomi has stated no matter how bad it is and are going against whats in the manga it doesn't make any sense and you can't be involved in discussions.
Bottom line, Closed Eyes out-played Tezuka!Niou, and Niou > Kirihara obviously since becoming Tezuka would destroy Kirihara.
There really isn't any argument. Kirihara was extremely awesome at Regionals and at Fuji's level.
At Nationals, Fuji would tear him apart. 5th Counter for a few games and since even Shiraishi could only achieve a cord ball against it, Kirihara isn't going to do any better so 6th Counter which is something that I can only see the Top tier touching.
Closed Eyes to handle his violent playing like it did before.
Kirihara shouldn't even take a game off of Fuji.
LOL I just noticed you said Base!Kirihara is equal to Shiraishi lol. Base!Kirihara got slumped by Krauser so no. No he won't.
Shiraishi would rip apart Base!Kirihara and so will Tachibana.
DM!Kirihara equal to do what Tezuka!Niou did? I think not. Nothing to suggest Kirihara was that good.
Shiraishi took 3 games and he was moving desperately, so Kirihara will take at least 4 games. DM!Kirihara 3 games, the next 3 is 6th Counter to destroy him with and CLosed Eyes + Cord Ball which is something that if Niou couldn't stop, Kirihara has no chance.
Kirihara just wasn't on Fuji's level. Fuji would wipe the floor with him.
And regarding Yanagi and Kirihara, it explains it even more, if Yanagi wiped the floor with Kirihara, and Fuji would wipe the floor with Yanagi, Kirihara is obviously a dead man in front of Fuji by Nationals.
Data Tennis is completely ineffective against Closed Eyes.
---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------
For Kirihara versus Fuji, Kirihara won't need to learn how to deal with the 5th counter. If he can beat it, it'd just be he turn into devil form and hit it cleanly over the net, and you'd have Yanagi saying "that move has no effect on the devil", the same way Kirihara can return Kaidoh's snake shot for no reason whatsoever when he's in Bloodshot form. It's also possible Kirihara can't beat it at all.
Because Kirihara won't hit balls into the net (his style is hitting the ball into someone's face) that means 6th counter is completely useless on him. Of course in this case Fuji would probably develop a 6th counter that specializes in balls hit toward the face or something else equally crazy. If there's no story significant events influencing the outcome (Fuji cannot lose the POT match because losing that game means Seigaku loses and more importantly Ryoma would never have played Sanada if Fuji lost) this fight can literally go either way depending on what Konomi feels like at the moment.
---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------
I noticed Shiraishi was mentioned. He's basically the strongest character in the mortal tier. All his power presumably come from very hard work, and his skill comes from countless trial and error, including how he solved Fuji's 5th counter. That is certainly admirable.
But POT is never meant to be fair. Look at the Fuji versus Shiraishi match, Fuji got his tech upgrades simply because he didn't want to lose. When those upgrades got overcome by Shiraishi, he magically learned 5th counter because again he didn't want to lose. Fuji's tier is not mortal. He's not godlike, but he doesn't need to put in effort or hard work like Shiraishi or anyone else in the mortal tier would need to do to get better. His upgrades are spontaneous and just happen because he needs one.
Likewise Kirihara is actually in this tier too, at least originally. He came up with an equally hax-like Muga from nowhere after Fuji did his Closed Eyes, and was able to put the similar tier Fuji on the ropes until he lost due to a rather bogus reason (and I swear when he lost that point it was at deuce, but not like anyone pays attention to the actual score in POT) due to story necessity (no way the match ends without Ryoma even playing).
So just because mortal characters have a hard time dealing with Fuji's techs doesn't mean the similarly not-mortal tier Kirihara would have a problem. You would never expect the Tezuka/Atobe/Sanada tier guys to have any problem with Fuji's techs. They'd be able to hit it back by simply invoking their name. Now Kirihara isn't this tier where you enjoy the ability to defeat your opponent by just saying your name, so the outcome could go either way against Fuji.
Fuji rarely ever plays seriously, in POT he only went all out three times, against kirihaya, against shiraishi, and against niou, he won the first, lost the second, but technically he surpassed shiraishi by beating niou!shiraishi, and most of his upgrades come after he watches tezukas matches, he gained his closed eyes state after he saw how hard tezuka fought against atobe, surpassing tezuka at that point, he gained his upgraded original triple counters and fifth counter after tezuka unsealed his pinnacle of hard work, and gained his sixth counter after tezuka awakened his pinnacle of wisdom, and at that point at nationals he surpassed tezuka(not counting ZSS), although with his sixth counter even the ZSS might not save tezuka. Fuji sees tezuka play hard or improve somehow, then faces a tough opponent, and finds a way to surpass whatever upgrade tezuka recently gained, now in SPot he saw tezuka have a good match against yamato, gain the pinnacle of perfection, and he faced tezuka and got owned, fuji never loses to the same opponent twice, next time he plays he will have some new amazing counters or another kind of upgrade that put him back in the top tier, thats just how fuji is in the series
right now, ryoma, sanada, kintaru, and akutsu are the only known msers that can hit 5 or more balls(kintaru, ryoma, akutsu know can hit 10 for sure, sanada probably can but its not shown yet), so its safe to say they may be the highest tier middle schoolers in camp right now(tezuka left), maybe yukimura and/or atobe in their league
kirihaya has improved with his new angel mode, but yanagi is one of the revolutionaries, which means he's improved more than any mser that stayed in camp(this seems to be the case, but just because he's improved more doesn't mean he can beat all the msers that stayed, just that he has improved more individually, since super tennis guy will still get owned by tachibana)
now i mainly want to know how sanadas black aura will stack up against tezuka and yukimura now
Last edited by redhairSH; January 11, 2013 at 08:56 PM.
I know Fuji is obviously meant to be 'one step away Tezuka tier' but the fact that he's never lost to the same guy twice isn't really saying much simply because you almost never play the same guy twice in POT.