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Thread: Singles Tier List

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles Revised (In Progress) show


    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Eh, to be fair, Hiyoshi doesn't had that bad of stamina before.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c156/7.html

    He just got hit with Kaidoh's trap.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c280/6.html

    And that's in doubles, where Kaidoh drain him with only half the energy because Kaidoh would only hit half a ball. Grant, his stamina weakness is better now. But in the current format of 3 set+in singles where he'll be draining twice as fast, I would't put Hiyoshi above Kaidoh. And that's not taking into account Tornado/Gyro combo.
    Granted he isn't at Kaidoh's level, but I think Hiyoshi did apparently have a stamina problem.

    http://www.mangareader.net/343-24566...hapter-11.html

    Implying he has weak stamina here by Atobe Keigo himself.

    So I do think Hiyoshi will rise up the tiers due to having solid stamina now.

  3. #767
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    No. It doesn't depend on the wind. It is greatly helped but its never said he can't perform it without the wind. Its not like they even use indoor courts in PoT for some reason anyway.


    Its like Rin by Sanada. Its to nullify spin. However this move is a lob and has a difficult to read path.
    Anybody Mid tier or above will wreck this move.
    Hirakoba tier or below will struggle.


    This is a perfect description. Its a move to hammer the weak.


    Its a move against all Cord Balls.
    In other words, its an anti-Nakagauchi move also.
    I reckon anybody in Mid tier who gradually tries to hit back 5th Counter as they hit the ball higher and higher against the net will meet it harshly as they reach the net.
    This is also a move to hammer down the weak.

    Also Disappearing Serve will take points imo.
    Hirakoba was a useless dog against it. Hirakoba is at the bottom of Mid or the top of the Low tier.
    And Shiraishi shat on it but he is towards the top of the tier.
    It's said that the crazy movement made by the 3rd counter (and 6th) depends on the wind. Without it, it would just be a rather ordinary shot. It probably doesn't matter because there is always wind in wherever Fuji is playing, but in theory both his 3rd and 6th counter can be shut down just because the wind isn't blowing at the moment. At any rate because the basic form always bounces back in a predictable way, as long as you seen it once you can just do what Shiraishi does (wait at the net for the return bounce). This won't work against the upgraded version, but upgraded 3rd implies Fuji can use 5th too which is even stronger so you're either doomed or it'd be trivial (if you can return 5th you can definitely return 3rd).

    The 4th counter doesn't say its trajectory is anything tricky. Certainly Shiraishi and Niou (as Tezuka) hit it back like it's nothing so it's at least ineffective against equal tier opponents in terms of offensive value. Hirakoba is considerably below even 4 counter Fuji in tier and he also used up all his energy for Giant Habu so the fact he can't return it doesn't say much. It's probably meant to be a defensive move, but against equal tier opponents we see both time Fuji used it, it results in an immediate smash by the opponent so its value is dubious.

    Nakagauchi was hitting cord balls on purpose because that's a criteria to use Southern Cross. Sure, any top player can hit cord balls on purpose, but why would you purposely try to set up a shot that allows Fuji to use his strongest move? I guess some of them might do it just to see what Fuji's best move is, but they're certainly not obliged to feed Fuji cord balls. I think Shiraishi hitting cord balls on 5th counter is because he cannot hit it over cleanly, so he might as well aim for a cord ball. If he can simply return it cleanly like Niou (as Tezuka), given his brand of bible tennis there's really no reason for him to get fancy there. 6th counter isn't useful on anyone weaker than Shiraishi because they'd never be able to return the 5th counter to begin with. Niou in his base stats is still presumably above most people by the virtue of being a Rikkidai, and he sure doesn't look like he can do anything about 5th counter until he starts using his illusions.

    Fuji's problem is that for whatever reason, his move is considered extremely well-telegraphed in POT. To stop a ZSD all you do is run up to the net, but we see not even Sanada can do that in his game against Ryoma when Ryoma used ZSD. This implies that even for a top player, it's not obvious when the ZSD occurs so it usually works despite having a rather simple way to stop it. On the other hand almost every instance of Fuji using his first counter (which is very similar to ZSD) shows everyone and their brother running up to the net to attempt to stop it. Likewise Sanada's Rin looks like a simple lob, but neither Yanaji nor Tezuka can capitalize on this so it implies whenever he does it, his opponent is unable to take advantage of the lob to counterattack, so it is an uber defensive move. However when Fuji uses the 4th counter (which is very similar to Rin) the ball just ends up getting smashed in the two cases against people of his tier (or above). It's actually pretty weird since Closed Eyes make him completely unpredictable, and yet his special moves are some of the most predictable moves in POT.

  4. #768
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Nakagauchi was hitting cord balls on purpose because that's a criteria to use Southern Cross. Sure, any top player can hit cord balls on purpose,
    Not everyone can in PoT. One of the things I love in this series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    but why would you purposely try to set up a shot that allows Fuji to use his strongest move? I guess some of them might do it just to see what Fuji's best move is, but they're certainly not obliged to feed Fuji cord balls. I think Shiraishi hitting cord balls on 5th counter is because he cannot hit it over cleanly, so he might as well aim for a cord ball. If he can simply return it cleanly like Niou (as Tezuka), given his brand of bible tennis there's really no reason for him to get fancy there.

    6th counter isn't useful on anyone weaker than Shiraishi because they'd never be able to return the 5th counter to begin with. Niou in his base stats is still presumably above most people by the virtue of being a Rikkidai, and he sure doesn't look like he can do anything about 5th counter until he starts using his illusions.
    Nationals!Shiraishi could not hit it cleanly.
    But like I said, any opponents below 5thCounter!Fuji will be wrecked/raped by 5thCounter. And those who are close to 5thCounter!Fuji who are good enough to gradually return it, since the method to return it for those below Fuji is to keep hitting it at the net til it gets higher and higher over the cord.
    Therefore the opponent will be met by 6thCounter which is unreturnable anyway.
    Without a clean hit back on 5thCounter you have basically lost the match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Fuji's problem is that for whatever reason, his move is considered extremely well-telegraphed in POT. To stop a ZSD all you do is run up to the net, but we see not even Sanada can do that in his game against Ryoma when Ryoma used ZSD. This implies that even for a top player, it's not obvious when the ZSD occurs so it usually works despite having a rather simple way to stop it.
    ZSD is far above Tsubame Gaeshi despite both of them being part of the No-Bounce-Club.
    Comparing them is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    On the other hand almost every instance of Fuji using his first counter (which is very similar to ZSD) shows everyone and their brother running up to the net to attempt to stop it. Likewise Sanada's Rin looks like a simple lob, but neither Yanaji nor Tezuka can capitalize on this so it implies whenever he does it, his opponent is unable to take advantage of the lob to counterattack, so it is an uber defensive move. However when Fuji uses the 4th counter (which is very similar to Rin) the ball just ends up getting smashed in the two cases against people of his tier (or above). It's actually pretty weird since Closed Eyes make him completely unpredictable, and yet his special moves are some of the most predictable moves in POT.
    ? Which is what makes Closed Eyes such an amazing technique despite how ridiculous it is.
    I don't really see your point here.

  5. #769
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    You can't telegraph ZSD easily because Tezuka hits it with almost the same form he hits a regular slice with. The only one who actually knows when it's coming is Inui. Tsubame Gaeshi on the other hand, you can see coming from a mile away. Higuma Otoshi is the same, you know when it's coming. Hakugei is less obvious, but since the ball passes the opponent twice, they can just hit it the second time (you can distinguish it from a normal lob when it passes you the first time). 4th and 5th counter have complicated motions as well, so again you know it's not a regular shot.

    As a result, you have a lot of time to prepare when Fuji hits his special moves, making them easier to return than stuff like ZSD or Kamikakushi that are hit with normal forms.

  6. #770
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    Zaizen > Kenya in PoT. There's no arguing with that. However, my point is just to show Kenya as not a total bag who would be helpless against WoK.
    Does anybody else notice the irony?

  7. #771
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Does anybody else notice the irony?
    What's the irony? Zaizen stays in the court, and Kenya step out. There's also that comment that the coach had that Kenya shouldn't slow Zaizen down. And because Zaizen didn't have his match yet, there's nothing that disprove this. Unless you want to show me proof in PoT that Kenya is stronger than Zaizan? Notice that I say PoT, NOT SPoT. I only saw proof that Zaizen is stronger than Kenya in that manga. While there might be more support for Kenya now in SPoT, but that's SPoT. So what? It's not PoT. So I don't really see the flaw.

    Can I see some proof from the manga that's not biased by opinion? If you think my argument is wrong. Can you show some proof?

    Here's my proof, if you want it.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...s/c313/13.html

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c332/7.html

    Why would coach change Kenya off and not Zaizen? Is it because Zaizen style fit Chitose tennis better? I don't see how Zaizen fit the bill better there. If you can show some substantial evidence, I'll be happy to have an actual debate with you. I notice that you can't even make a comeback with any manga evidence from your past argument. Well, I guess it's normal for someone to support characters that they're a fan off, but really, if you want to support a characters, knows your character tier and stick with it. It make you look less dumb.

    And it'll be nicer for you to actually make a good argument that doesn't revolve around stupid plot power instead of picking up little flaw in people's argument. Oh, I guess you didn't defend it. Where's your answer to Echizen being top and above everyone just forever that way? That's your plot argument at works at its finest, isn't it? f you want to keep continue using the plot argument, please at least try to defend it.

    If someone try using the same argument that just keep getting shot down each time, and it makes the person that make the argument look like he had short term memory. Not saying anyone in particular, but just that when it happens, it make me think that way.
    Last edited by -Ken-; February 16, 2013 at 02:10 AM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    You can't telegraph ZSD easily because Tezuka hits it with almost the same form he hits a regular slice with. The only one who actually knows when it's coming is Inui. Tsubame Gaeshi on the other hand, you can see coming from a mile away. Higuma Otoshi is the same, you know when it's coming. Hakugei is less obvious, but since the ball passes the opponent twice, they can just hit it the second time (you can distinguish it from a normal lob when it passes you the first time). 4th and 5th counter have complicated motions as well, so again you know it's not a regular shot.

    As a result, you have a lot of time to prepare when Fuji hits his special moves, making them easier to return than stuff like ZSD or Kamikakushi that are hit with normal forms.
    Not only is Fuji's move telegraphed but they are extremely weak moves when telegraphed which is not the case compared to the average telegraphed move. For example we can assume almost all power shots are telegraphed but that sure isn't going to help you return a Duke Homerun or any variants if you're not strong enough. FuRinKaZan is pretty much always telegraphed because Sanada generally matches whatever strength his opponent has, but telegraphing a Zan, for example, doesn't really help the opponent much. I guess since Fuji was always meant to be Seigaku's #2 (not including Ryoma) his original role is more like 'strongest mortal' because people in Tezuka's tier are clearly not mortals and he wasn't supposed to play non mortal enemies. However Shiraishi has undoubtedly claim the title of 'strongest mortal' which leaves Fuji in a weird place. He might be the weakest non-mortal player right now, so playing other mortals is pretty much beneath him (5th counter will trash any mortal-like players), and yet he lacks the moves to play against fellow non-mortals.

  9. #773
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    What's the irony?
    The irony is that you believe Kenya is better than Fuji. To be better than Fuji is to be a high tier character on Tachibana/Chitose/Shiraishi/Renji level. There is no such thing as a mid-tier character (like Kenya) being better than Fuji. However, if Zaizen (who is better than Kenya) couldn't even hit the ball during the Tezuka/Chitose rally, then Kenya can't either. If Chitose is on the same level as Shiraishi, then Kenya would go the way of Zaizen against him. If Zaizen isn't considered high tier, then Kenya isn't either. This shows Kenya isn't even near Shiraishi's level.

    Also, you can't compare a tiebreak match with a regular full length match. The writing is different. The one has only 7 points, the other usually has 7 games. This IS relevant because you have to condense all you want to do in 7 points. And because Konomi was foreshadowing (something you probably don't understand because you don't understand storytelling) Kenya's improvement during the Shiraishi match, he allowed Kenya to get some points.

    Also, you can't use the formula (A > B) and (C > A) therefore (C > B) in PoT. Inui beat Renji. This does not mean anybody who beats Inui is automatically better than Renji, because Inui is uniquely qualified to play against him. I've said many times, Renji would beat more people in the series than Inui would.
    Last edited by Fayte; February 16, 2013 at 09:28 AM.

  10. #774
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    The irony is that you believe Kenya is better than Fuji. To be better than Fuji is to be a high tier character on Tachibana/Chitose/Shiraishi/Renji level. There is no such thing as a mid-tier character (like Kenya) being better than Fuji. However, if Zaizen (who is better than Kenya) couldn't even hit the ball during the Tezuka/Chitose rally, then Kenya can't either. If Chitose is on the same level as Shiraishi, then Kenya would go the way of Zaizen against him. If Zaizen isn't considered high tier, then Kenya isn't either. This shows Kenya isn't even near Shiraishi's level.

    Also, you can't compare a tiebreak match with a regular full length match. The writing is different. The one has only 7 points, the other usually has 7 games. This IS relevant because you have to condense all you want to do in 7 points. And because Konomi was foreshadowing (something you probably don't understand because you don't understand storytelling) Kenya's improvement during the Shiraishi match, he allowed Kenya to get some points.

    Also, you can't use the formula (A > B) and (C > A) therefore (C > B) in PoT. Inui beat Renji. This does not mean anybody who beats Inui is automatically better than Renji, because Inui is uniquely qualified to play against him. I've said many times, Renji would beat more people in the series than Inui would.
    The thing is that 4 counter Fuji is not high tier. 4 counter Fuji is really more of mid tier character. He get crush pretty much effortlessly by both Shiraishi and Tachibana, who are both high tier characters in PoT. It isn't until 5th counter+closed eyes that Fuji become a real high tier characters.

    And I never say Kenya is on Shiraishi level. If he is, the tiebreak result will be 5-7 or something closer. I only says that he is better than 4 counter Fuji, which is different.

    I won't say tiebreak match is too different than full length match. Cancer lost to Yuushi 7-0 while he's supposed to be specialized in short length match (as shown by both of his match in PoT). I'll say they're miniscope of what the full match is supposed to be. This is because there's no way cancer would beat Yuushi, because cancer is, well, cancer.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Renji would beat more people in the series than Inui would.
    Not so sure after the Revolution.
    Revolution!Yanagi and Revolution!Inui I would say are dead equal after Nationals!Yanagi shat on Nationals!Inui then Mitsuya arrives leaves Yanagi for dead on the ground.
    I think Yanagi actually slept. The bastard actually went to sleep because he had his ass handed to him so badly.
    I think Yanagi is a cool guy so that was painful to read for me.
    Whereas Inui defeats Mitsuya and looks rather comfortable afterwards. So comfortable he has to carry the unconscious Yanagi.

    I can't think of a situation where Yanagi is better than Inui anymore. I think Konomi just confirmed that if anybody is better of the two, it isn't Yanagi anymore.

    If you have another angle to view it then I'm all ears but, yeah...

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  13. #776
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    It's funny that people think that with speed alone the 4 counters + closed eyes + that slice serve (phantom serve?) will be easily returned.

    So, prefecturals Kamio > Kanto finals Fuji too right? Of course not, considering that Prefecturals Kirihara destroyed Pref Tachibana (who was, by far, the best in Fudo) and Fuji was evenly matched with Muga! Kirihara (he was even better than freaking Tezuka at the time...).

    Kenya is a guy that would have troubles with Jirou's tier, nothing else. 4 counters Fuji would destroy him.

  14. #777
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    It's funny that people think that with speed alone the 4 counters + closed eyes + that slice serve (phantom serve?) will be easily returned.

    So, prefecturals Kamio > Kanto finals Fuji too right? Of course not, considering that Prefecturals Kirihara destroyed Pref Tachibana (who was, by far, the best in Fudo) and Fuji was evenly matched with Muga! Kirihara (he was even better than freaking Tezuka at the time...).

    Kenya is a guy that would have troubles with Jirou's tier, nothing else. 4 counters Fuji would destroy him.
    I only see opinion here, so proof from manga, please?

    Why would Kamio beat Fuji? He even lost to Kenya with beast aura upgrade. Kenya was even holding himself back with handicap for most of that match and are still rocking Kamio. That's a really stupid argument.

    I already present my proof of why Kenya> 4 counter Fuji. If you can't back that up with evidence from manga, it's just your opinion and nothing more. I'm not interested.

    If Fuji 6-2 or 1 Jirou, and 4 counter Fuji lost 5 game and 3 points to Shiraishi without getting a single point, that's not a good sign. And then Kenya manage to get 3 points out of 10 points from the same National Shiraishi. What does that tells you? Kenya is most likely around same tier as 4 counter Fuji, and slightly stronger even. I think that points to 6-0 Jirou.

    I'm all ears for good discussion. I like discussing with people when they actually back up their side with evidence. So I ask for evidence, if you may?
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I only see opinion here, so proof from manga, please?

    Why would Kamio beat Fuji? He even lost to Kenya with beast aura upgrade. Kenya was even holding himself back with handicap for most of that match and are still rocking Kamio. That's a really stupid argument.

    I already present my proof of why Kenya> 4 counter Fuji. If you can't back that up with evidence from manga, it's just your opinion and nothing more. I'm not interested.

    If Fuji 6-2 or 1 Jirou, and 4 counter Fuji lost 5 game and 3 points to Shiraishi without getting a single point, that's not a good sign. And then Kenya manage to get 3 points out of 10 points from the same National Shiraishi. What does that tells you? Kenya is most likely around same tier as 4 counter Fuji, and slightly stronger even. I think that points to 6-0 Jirou.

    I'm all ears for good discussion. I like discussing with people when they actually back up their side with evidence. So I ask for evidence, if you may?
    What evidence did you show? You are just naming results! Who freaking cares if he scored against Shiraishi? Shiraishi's playstyle was perfect against Fuji, that's all, that's why he destroyed him. There's no evidence that shows that Kenya is good enough to return the triple counters, nor 4th (which gave Hirakoba troubles), Fuji's serve... anything! His tech was never mentioned in the manga, just his speed, Hirakoba would probably kick his ass. Just remember that pre 4th counter Fuji was equal / better than Muga! Kirihara and even better THAN FREAKING TEZUKA.

    This discussions with you, honestly, are useless, you just stick with results. There's no way that Kenya would beat Kanto Fuji, even if he is so awesome that he was able to score 3 points in a plot power tie break against Shiraishi.
    Last edited by Hardy; February 16, 2013 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    4th counter is against spin shots, Kenya doesn't use any, so Fuji won't use 4th counter against him. The triple counter can all be returned with speed.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    4th counter is against spin shots, Kenya doesn't use any, so Fuji won't use 4th counter against him. The triple counter can all be returned with speed.
    So, again, Prefecturals Kamio > Fuji with 4 counters, closed eyes and Phantom serve.

    Seems legit.

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