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Thread: Singles Tier List

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles Revised (In Progress) show


    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.

  2. #841
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Do Tezuka really leave Atobe behind? Atobe manage to keep up with Irie in a tiebreak when he would have lost 6-0 before when he gets Atobe Kingdom. That shows how much Atobe improve. I can't believe that's not enough to bridge the cap between Atobe and National! Tezuka.

    SPoT Tezuka is another thing entirely, he's in god realm now, but PoT Tezuka?
    I thought Irie was just messing around in the entire tiebreaker. Looking at the final point it seems like he could've scored anytime he wanted to and was just doing his usual acting. Maybe he was using higher level acting compared to his normal stuff but I don't see Atobe keeping up with him. The limit of Atobe's accomplishment was that he got a game off Irie while Irie was serious with Atobe Kingdom (that's something Irie can't defeat with acting). I think after Atobe Kingdom ran out, Irie went back to his usual casual mode since without AK it's impossible to see Irie's weaknesses.

    The problem with Atobe and Tezuka is that the whole tiebreaker at Kantou throws their power level out of whack. I assume they're meant to be very close to each other in power, but the tiebreaker lasted roughly the duration of an average set in POT in terms of points. We know from the start that Tezuka cannot serve during this tiebreaker. His first serve got returned for an instant winner because it's so weak, so the implication is that Tezuka always loses his serve. So while auto-losing his serves, Tezuka managed to play a tiebreaker for roughly the length of a set against Atobe, which implies Atobe also lost all his serves too. The only way this is possible is that Tezuka absolutely crushed Atobe on every rally. In fact, I don't think you can find another example of such utter domination where a guy lost every serve he did against an opponent. Even Jirou scored on Fuji during his serve.

    Now I get that as readers we're really supposed to just nod and say 'yep they're about equal' based on the Kantou match. If you look at it that way, Tezuka has a significant move advantage on Atobe because Tezuka Zone shuts down WoI/AK. Tezuka is not particularly vulnerable to an endurance game if not for his past injury, and Niou certainly does not have this problem. Niou isn't as good as the real Tezuka, but Tezuka also have better moves. It's not clear if Atobe has an answer for ZSS or Phantom, and certanly Atobe has no move that will force Tezuka to resort to using Phantom.

    Looking at the Kantou game, it was 6-5 with Tezuka serving for the win, so the most likely outcome in such a match is they all held their serve except for Atobe who lost it once. This suggest when these two play it'd be one of those rare games where the server actually has a very significant advantage, so whatever minute imperfection Niou may have shouldn't be a problem in the light of the fact that both should win their serves easily. Tezuka's moveset is just overwhelmingly more powerful than Atobe's in any close situations, mostly because Zone shuts down AK which leaves Atobe without useful special moves.

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  4. #842
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Irrelevant, but perhaps the most painfully, stupid and arrogant decision in the series.
    Costed the bastard his badge.
    Spoiler show
    I agree. However, it improve Japan team as a whole. You can't really complain about that being a good senpai. And they can still probably get any 1st stringer pair spots from 11-20 still. If Mouri can still play, that is.

    Where would you put Ochi and Mouri in singles? I actually can't see Niou beating Ochi in singles at all. Niou can't answer Mach serve even once in ALL the game that they have. Eventually, it will lead to long tie break until Niou arm break. And Ochi mental assasin will also be aiming for Niou instead of Atobe (I don't have much to support this, but I think Atobe mental is higher than Niou, due to the coach quote about raising Atobe mental stats).

    It could have been Yukimura/Sanada/Tezuka relationship in PoT (Yukimura>Sanada>Tezuka>Yukimura, I explain this before that Yukimura doens't show ability to beat Saiki/Hyakuren combine, and so Yips at the beginning of the series that require Yukimura to wins some points kick in) with Niou>Atobe>Ochi>Niou. This is partly me speculating.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Prince Of Tennis Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    The problem with Atobe and Tezuka is that the whole tiebreaker at Kantou throws their power level out of whack. I assume they're meant to be very close to each other in power, but the tiebreaker lasted roughly the duration of an average set in POT in terms of points. We know from the start that Tezuka cannot serve during this tiebreaker. His first serve got returned for an instant winner because it's so weak, so the implication is that Tezuka always loses his serve. So while auto-losing his serves, Tezuka managed to play a tiebreaker for roughly the length of a set against Atobe, which implies Atobe also lost all his serves too. The only way this is possible is that Tezuka absolutely crushed Atobe on every rally. In fact, I don't think you can find another example of such utter domination where a guy lost every serve he did against an opponent. Even Jirou scored on Fuji during his serve.

    Now I get that as readers we're really supposed to just nod and say 'yep they're about equal' based on the Kantou match. If you look at it that way, Tezuka has a significant move advantage on Atobe because Tezuka Zone shuts down WoI/AK. Tezuka is not particularly vulnerable to an endurance game if not for his past injury, and Niou certainly does not have this problem. Niou isn't as good as the real Tezuka, but Tezuka also have better moves. It's not clear if Atobe has an answer for ZSS or Phantom, and certanly Atobe has no move that will force Tezuka to resort to using Phantom.

    Looking at the Kantou game, it was 6-5 with Tezuka serving for the win, so the most likely outcome in such a match is they all held their serve except for Atobe who lost it once. This suggest when these two play it'd be one of those rare games where the server actually has a very significant advantage, so whatever minute imperfection Niou may have shouldn't be a problem in the light of the fact that both should win their serves easily. Tezuka's moveset is just overwhelmingly more powerful than Atobe's in any close situations, mostly because Zone shuts down AK which leaves Atobe without useful special moves.
    This is pretty much why Atobe cannot win against Niou who can now use the elbow damaging moves for longer than Nationals!Tezuka.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I agree. However, it improve Japan team as a whole. You can't really complain about that being a good senpai. And they can still probably get any 1st stringer pair spots from 11-20 still. If Mouri can still play, that is.
    Personally, I'd rather he G10 arc stopped halfway after Oni VS Tooyama.
    No disrespect but after I see a Sanada match where he brings out Black Aura + 10ball, Or freaking Ryoma's match which is going to be extremely DBZ also,
    Am I really going to want to read through matches involving No.s11-20? Gosh no.
    I think it may be vital we save the best stuff til last for this one.

    I would prefer it to stop just here and go back and solve the Nos.11-20 and find out if the Court Systems still exist lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Where would you put Ochi and Mouri in singles? I actually can't see Niou beating Ochi in singles at all. Niou can't answer Mach serve even once in ALL the game that they have. Eventually, it will lead to long tie break until Niou arm break. And Ochi mental assasin will also be aiming for Niou instead of Atobe (I don't have much to support this, but I think Atobe mental is higher than Niou, due to the coach quote about raising Atobe mental stats).
    Well.
    Ochi cannot stop ZSS. Niou cannot stop Mach. So nobody is dropping a game til we reach tie-break. So for the first set, Ochi takes it 7-6 because Mental Pressure will kick in.
    2nd set, Ochi's stamina is above Atobe's even. So he is a stamina beast like Ryoma, Kintaro, Kaidoh, Jackal etc.
    Depending on whether or not Konomi has scrapped Saiki for SPoT or not decides Niou's victory I believe.
    Or when Niou becomes Atobe, how close an illusion could he get of Atobe's Insight.
    Since if Niou can get an accurate illusion of Insight he can get back Mach Serve comfortably in the tie-breaks and win.

    Personally, I'd rather he G10 arc stopped halfway after Oni VS Tooyama.
    No disrespect but after I see a Sanada match where he brings out Black Aura + 10ball, Or freaking Ryoma's match which is going to be extremely DBZ also,
    Am I really going to want to read through matches involving No.s11-20? Gosh no.
    I think it may be vital we save the best stuff til last for this one.

    I would prefer it to stop just here and go back and solve the Nos.11-20 and find out if the Court Systems still exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    It could have been Yukimura/Sanada/Tezuka relationship in PoT (Yukimura>Sanada>Tezuka>Yukimura, I explain this before that Yukimura doens't show ability to beat Saiki/Hyakuren combine, and so Yips at the beginning of the series that require Yukimura to wins some points kick in) with Niou>Atobe>Ochi>Niou. This is partly me speculating.
    yeah I agreed with it.
    Saiki+Hyakku Ren+TZ/TPhantom should force out a win over Yukimura in a one set match back in PoT definetely.
    Those 3 were the unquestionable top of the series.

  6. #844
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Ken isn't using "Ken logic?" Wait, Ken. Sanada beat Tezuka and Yukimura beat Sanada, therefore Yukimura will beat Tezuka, right? Hasn't that been your logic on other topics? Why all of a sudden use real logic and conclude different characters produce different results? Kenya > Fuji right?

  7. #845
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Ken isn't using "Ken logic?" Wait, Ken. Sanada beat Tezuka and Yukimura beat Sanada, therefore Yukimura will beat Tezuka, right? Hasn't that been your logic on other topics? Why all of a sudden use real logic and conclude different characters produce different results? Kenya > Fuji right?
    What? No, it's not. That's not my logic. How does Fuji move is super effective against Kenya the same way Tezuka move is super effective against Yukimura? It's not. I only saw argument that 4 counter Fuji will beat Kenya because Kenya can't asnwer the ball, where there's nothing that can prove that at all other than extremely stupid claim with no support that he is in different tier, which I shows he is not. If you can present the some proof that Kenya can't answer 4 counter Fuji counter the same I present proof on how PoT Yips won't work against Tezuka, I'll listen. I show how 4 counter Fuji is not in different tier than Kenya already.

    Show proof from the manga to support your point. If you can, that is. Otherwise, shut it. Having counter for a move is pretty valid argument. Look at WoI vs Zone for example.

    I don't only use tier either. I used the score to present that they are in roughly the same tier. You must not knows how to read, support by the fact that I can see you ignore my argument form pages before. I stated before on how Kenya can counter each of Fuji 4 counter+serve by using speed, so no, it's not as simple as that.

    My logic is made using evidence from the manga. That's all. If there's any logic I used, that's the logic.

    I consider those 3 to have the same skill at the end of PoT. If someone with same skill fought, are they going to win 100%?

    And I support Tezuka > Yukimura by using facts from manga. I used the page where PoT Yips is explain. I support it with the facts that Echizen have own Yukimura using Saiki+Hyakuren. So what's your point really?

    If you want to play by that logic, it's fine too. There's no proof that suggests Yukimura didn't have Yips 1st year. In fact, this page

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c371/2.html

    Suggests that he had it for longer than 1 national. Tezuka have beat him 1st year with just Hyakuren. And there's no mention in the manga that Yukimura improve or earn new move since then. Happy now?

    Or we can do it your way. Sanada only beat Tezuka by virtue of plot. It's clear that Fuji and Golden Pair needs a win, so everyone else need to lost. During the entire match, it's mention that Tezuka is trying to buy time for Echizen, and if we look at Golden Pair match, we knows exactly what that means. It doesn't quite even mention this in Fuji and Kaidoh/Inui match. And in next match, we saw Tezuka obtain PoP, so Konomi is putting Tezuka in his proper tier. It's no different with Inui/Kaidoh, we can even saw it at the end of the match where Inui said that he obtain the data. But Rikkai had plot on their side, so Inui faint.

    Crap, someone need to learn how to read. I have stated before that I don't mind an argument as long as it is support with evidence from the manga. I'm probably asking too much. Oh well. Is there ignore function somewhere? because I'm seriously considering it. I'm tired of reading Fayte logic that I can't win in any actual substantial argument because what I thought to be true is just my opinion so I decide to attack the user instead.
    Last edited by -Ken-; February 22, 2013 at 12:07 PM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  8. #846
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    If we're talking about just POT, Yukimura would drop at most one game against anybody not Ryoma. He's simply supposed to be godlike in POT. There's a serious mismatch between his alleged tier (godlike) and his actual abilities. If you take Yukimura's ability as described in POT, he'd get slapped silly by Sanada/Tezuka/Atobe until yips kicks in, which makes him a mental version of the power player, except since it's said that yips kicks in due to opponent fearing Yukimura's presence and whatnot, yips shouldn't even kick in at all. Of course even in the game against Ryoma we see that yips kicks in while Ryoma was winning quite comfortably with his Hyakuren + Saiki combo, so for some reason Ryoma saw the future where he scored in 5 rallies and then still succumbed to yips because 'Yukimura can return anything, at least 5 times'.

    More in depth breakdown of what SHOULD happen if Yukimura played other top players:

    Atobe - This would basically be a slaughter because only Irie is shown to be immune to WoI line and we know Yukimura can't do Tezuka Zone (this is the only move Muga cannot duplicate). Atobe also likes endurance matches so not sure why he'd freak out just because Yukimura was returning his hits, but Yukimura won't be returning any hits from WoI anyway.

    Tezuka - Yukimura said Hyakuren + Tezuka Zone is a threat, and looking at his game agaisnt Ryoma it doesn't look like he has anything that can deal with it outside of yips.

    Sanada - Rai is faster and stronger than any shot hit by Hyakuren aura (Tezuka can't even touch Rai at the beginning) so if Yukimura has to chase down shots hit by Hyakuren, he'd be too slow to catch up to Rai, though Rai does have a usage limit.

    Of course looking at the Kintaro and Ryoma game, yips must take place somewhere around 2 to 3 points worth of rally and yips clearly works on people who are in no way afraid of you. In fact the only way Yukimura would drop a game is against Tezuka and Tezuka served first, because Tezuka can do 4 ZSS in a row and since there's no exchange in rally this gives no time for Yukimura to do yips.
    Last edited by Phantron; February 22, 2013 at 01:31 PM.

  9. #847
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    I didn't agree with anything in your post until

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Of course looking at the Kintaro and Ryoma game, yips must take place somewhere around 2 to 3 points and yips clearly works on people who are in no way afraid of you. In fact the only way Yukimura would drop a game is against Tezuka and Tezuka served first, because Tezuka can do 4 ZSS in a row and since there's no exchange in rally this gives no time for Yukimura to do yips.
    That made your whole post useless

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Atobe - This would basically be a slaughter because only Irie is shown to be immune to WoI line and we know Yukimura can't do Tezuka Zone (this is the only move Muga cannot duplicate). Atobe also likes endurance matches so not sure why he'd freak out just because Yukimura was returning his hits, but Yukimura won't be returning any hits from WoI anyway.
    No.
    Yukimura's technique was completely superior to the Ryoma that beat Atobe.
    The Ryoma that was rallying neck and neck with Atobe to a point where Atobe was forced into not using Insight and he and Ryoma were just going all-out in rallies.
    Yukimura destroyed that Ryoma.
    Yukimura destroyed Ryoma with Hyakkuren. Yukimura then showed fight-back against Moveable Hyakku Ren and Ryoma thanks to plot armour became basically Tezuka and unlocked Saiki to use at the same time.

    I'll make it simple, Atobe WILL be forced into a rally with Yukimura. If Yukimura serves, once Yukimura gets serious like how he gradually got serious against Ryoma, his serves become like thunder.
    The same Yukimura from PoT against the Atobe from PoT, Atobe will not be able to handle those serves and use WoI at the same time.
    He will be forced into a rally. Atobe will definetely take the lead and push Yuki, but Tannhauser, Rondo Towards Destruction etc. will be useless.
    Once Atobe gets a few long rallies, he is yipped. Once Atobe is yipped, he is not Sanada who has been bathed in improvement by Konomi.
    He is not Ryoma.
    Atobe will die in Yips.

    And if you're talking about currently, same situation. Atobe will take a lead, but Yukimura annihalated the No.11 who in theory should be at the same level as Ochi or Mouri in Singles.
    If Yuki wiped him, he shouldn't be close to losing to any Doubles players in the Top10.

    To say you're not sure why Atobe would freak out, Atobe is someone who loves to freak out especially in SPoT.
    His outbursts in SPoT have been amusing.

  11. #849
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    No.
    Yukimura's technique was completely superior to the Ryoma that beat Atobe.
    The Ryoma that was rallying neck and neck with Atobe to a point where Atobe was forced into not using Insight and he and Ryoma were just going all-out in rallies.
    Yukimura destroyed that Ryoma.
    Yukimura destroyed Ryoma with Hyakkuren. Yukimura then showed fight-back against Moveable Hyakku Ren and Ryoma thanks to plot armour became basically Tezuka and unlocked Saiki to use at the same time.

    I'll make it simple, Atobe WILL be forced into a rally with Yukimura. If Yukimura serves, once Yukimura gets serious like how he gradually got serious against Ryoma, his serves become like thunder.
    The same Yukimura from PoT against the Atobe from PoT, Atobe will not be able to handle those serves and use WoI at the same time.
    He will be forced into a rally. Atobe will definetely take the lead and push Yuki, but Tannhauser, Rondo Towards Destruction etc. will be useless.
    Once Atobe gets a few long rallies, he is yipped. Once Atobe is yipped, he is not Sanada who has been bathed in improvement by Konomi.
    He is not Ryoma.
    Atobe will die in Yips.

    And if you're talking about currently, same situation. Atobe will take a lead, but Yukimura annihalated the No.11 who in theory should be at the same level as Ochi or Mouri in Singles.
    If Yuki wiped him, he shouldn't be close to losing to any Doubles players in the Top10.

    To say you're not sure why Atobe would freak out, Atobe is someone who loves to freak out especially in SPoT.
    His outbursts in SPoT have been amusing.
    WoI/AK completely bypasses basic rally strength. Atobe is signficantly weaker than Sanada in basic rally when Sanada has Zan activated, but once he uses WoI it doesn't matter because the whole point of seeing the blind spot is that the other person cannot do anything about it. Unless Yukimura can achieve the same 'no blind spot' as Irie, Atobe will always see his blind spot and by definition Yukimura cannot return a shot hit to his blind spot, otherwise it's not a blind spot. The reason why Ryoma can beat WoI is because he can also use Tezuka Zone, and Yukimura specifically said that Muga (which he also has) cannot duplicate Tezuka Zone. It does seem unbelieveable that if Ryoma can sort of just wing it and do TZone with his limited experience why couldn't Yukimura do the same? But based on what we know, Yukimura can't do TZone.

    Now, if you limit yourself to just PoT it's not out of the question to say Yukimura potentially could have no blind spots (like he did in the Anime). But putting NPoT in perspective, the first person to have no blind spots is Irie, who is clearly a tier above anyone at the end of PoT minus possibly TnK Ryoma. So if that's what it takes to get no blind spots I don't think Yukimura can do it at the end of PoT.

    Unless Yukimura can score winners/aces on every point, Atobe will have chance to use WoI. He used WoI on Sanada in Zan, and we can see that Sanada was winning the game comfortably so merely being disadvantaged can't stop Atobe from activating WoI. All the games we see Yukimura play in he seems to have an endurance rally style where he relies on either his base rally strength or yips to defeat his opponent, so he's not a person who relies on aces/winners which is the only thing that can prevent WoI. And, if we go by the precise definition of what cause yips in POT, given by Kintaro, you get yips because Yukimura can seemingly return anything. Well, if he can't return WoI the whole mental aspect goes away. Of course in practice yips seems to be something that just happens by magic after a few rallies, even if your opponent absolutely has no fear of you (e.g. Fuwa).

    In the end Yukimura's got a huge gap between his stated abilities and what he actually does on court. Based on what Yukimura actually does on the court, of course he'll crush Sanada/Atobe/Tezuka in PoT. Based on his stated abilities? Tezuka would use Saiki and see that he can win and have no fear of yips (why be scared if you know you can win?). Atobe will use WoI and score and that will break yips as well. Sanada might lose just because Yukimura apparently spend a lot of time figuring out how to deal with Rai (I don't believe he just thought of a totally crazy way to return Rai on the fly in NPoT).

    Of course you also have to ask why Yukimura, who mastered Muga, apparently never thought about using In against Saiki. Or that two guys who knows Tezuka's moves like the back of their hand apparently can't come close to duplicating Tezuka Zone (Yukimura said Sanada will lose against WoI) while a rookie who saw Tezuka played a few times have no problem just winging it. Or for that matter, why on earth did Sanada and Yukimura spending their time mastering Muga and then never actually using it.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    No...
    Atobe cannot spam WoI or AK for extremely long periods of time.
    Something that makes Atobe's character not broken.
    Atobe will take Yukimura to the end, but Atobe will get yipped.

    Now, you no longer have to be scared of Yukimura to be yipped after the Revolution.
    Also, Prior to Plot power giving Ryoma Saiki + Moveable Hyakku Ren, Yukimura aced him for 3 games straight.
    That is the same Ryoma that was neck and neck with PoT.

    That is enough to show that Yukimura's rallying is far and beyond what Atobe can rally with back in PoT.
    In PoT, Yukimura edges out the win because not only is his base stats superior, but because Atobe cannot spam WoI.

    In SPoT, I don't know if you were there or not, but only Yukimura was chosen to face the 1st String. He was the only MSer.
    If you count the fact that he would have still nailed Tooyama who wasn't on the 10ball level that puts you above the rest,
    Sanada has a pirate's eye-patch which is a handicap? Hasn't revealed his 10ball yet,
    Ryoma hadn't revealed his 10ball ability yet and neither did Akutsu.

    So then you look at the best MSer besides them. They chose Yukimura.
    This is more or less concrete evidence. As to who would win right now.

    Lastly, use common sense.
    If Atobe is being out-rallied, something I'm sure over the course of a match, Yukimura would definetely be capable of, how can he hit WoI in difficult positions.
    He needs to be in a good position from what we have seen.

    Although I would like it if Atobe could use AK and WoI from any physical position.
    Perhaps if Atobe had that ridiculous ability Konomi gave Akutsu which was "--ery decade talent, Akutsu can hit an offensive shot from any physical position".
    Heck, Atobe can't even use AK or WoI from a 'got damn' serve.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Where would you put Ochi and Mouri in singles? I actually can't see Niou beating Ochi in singles at all. Niou can't answer Mach serve even once in ALL the game that they have. Eventually, it will lead to long tie break until Niou arm break. And Ochi mental assasin will also be aiming for Niou instead of Atobe (I don't have much to support this, but I think Atobe mental is higher than Niou, due to the coach quote about raising Atobe mental stats).
    Actually, Ken, based on the scores, Niou has to have returned at least one Mach. In the tiebreak, while we didn't see it, Niou has to have returned Mach, otherwise Atobe/Niou couldn't have gotten back to 6-6.

    Later on in the third set, either Niou forfeits points when he serves or he returns Mach.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Not sure why Atobe can't spam WoI or AK. It certainly appears to have less side effect compared to other 'guaranteed score' techs like Rai or Phantom. I know Atobe stops using it periodically but I just don't see how this tech can be more tiring/dangerous to spam compared to Rai or Phantom.

    Yukimura aced Ryoma because, like he said, the drawback of Hyakuren is that you're concentrate all your energy in one hand so you end up having lowered stats everywhere else so he can't react as fast. It's not that his rallies are suddenly unbelieveably fast. Yukimura said Tezuka would be able to return these hits with Tezuka Zone.

    Atobe first used WoI when he was getting a beatdown by Sanada so I don't see why it can't activate just because you're losing. In fact I'd say Atobe purposely let himself get beaten down since everyone knows people randomly come up with awesome techs in face of desperation, so if anything WoI/AK is more likely to be used when you're in trouble. I'm sure AK/WoI must have some activation costs, but it's hard for me to imagine the cost will be greater than stuff like Phantom and Rai which are spammed over and over. Obviously like most 'guaranteed score' techs it has to have some bogus limitations to prevent the games from being totally boring. Like you said you might as well AK/WoI on serves, though here you can argue that since the ball can only land in certain area on a serve, perhaps it is possible a top player has only blind spots in areas that'd be considered a fault serve.

    About yips, it really depends on which version of yips you're talking about, the version that's actually used or the version Kintaro claims to be used. If it's really some kind of mental block then obviosly scoring on Yukimura would instantly break it (you'd no longer doubt whether you can score on him) and this tech would be useless after you score a few points because you'd no longer have any doubt on whether you can score on Yukimura. Of course, the actual version of the yips used in the story apparently works fine even when Yukimura is losing (presumably he was losing against Fuwa, but yips still worked on him). So based on what actually happens in POT of course anyone would get yipped and lose even if they're totally dominating Yukimura.

    I guess you can get around by saying that since nobody besides Yukimura knows why playing tennis causes yips (Inui basically said this cannot be explained by science) it's possible Kintaro is just flat out wrong.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    About yips, it really depends on which version of yips you're talking about, the version that's actually used or the version Kintaro claims to be used. If it's really some kind of mental block then obviosly scoring on Yukimura would instantly break it (you'd no longer doubt whether you can score on him) and this tech would be useless after you score a few points because you'd no longer have any doubt on whether you can score on Yukimura. Of course, the actual version of the yips used in the story apparently works fine even when Yukimura is losing (presumably he was losing against Fuwa, but yips still worked on him). So based on what actually happens in POT of course anyone would get yipped and lose even if they're totally dominating Yukimura.
    Actually, we never see either player win a point in the Yuki vs Fuwa match. Remember how Sanada vs Yuki was five minutes of one single point without either player scoring? So, we don't actually know that Yuki had lost any points to Fuwa, and in fact, it's implied that it's all during the first point because all we see is continuous rallying.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Actually, Ken, based on the scores, Niou has to have returned at least one Mach. In the tiebreak, while we didn't see it, Niou has to have returned Mach, otherwise Atobe/Niou couldn't have gotten back to 6-6.

    Later on in the third set, either Niou forfeits points when he serves or he returns Mach.
    You're right. I wonder how... Niou's laying ON the floor. I guess he used right hand to serve?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Actually, we never see either player win a point in the Yuki vs Fuwa match. Remember how Sanada vs Yuki was five minutes of one single point without either player scoring? So, we don't actually know that Yuki had lost any points to Fuwa, and in fact, it's implied that it's all during the first point because all we see is continuous rallying.
    On this, though, I made this post before.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3076086

    It look as if Fuwa score at least 1 point against Yukimura.
    Last edited by -Ken-; February 23, 2013 at 12:41 AM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Although we didn't see any point scored in Yukimura versus Fuwa it's hard to imagine why Fuwa wouldn't be ahead overall because he is, after all, blindfolded. It'd be pretty stupid if Fuwa was losing points while talking about giving Yukimura more handicaps.

    Niou could be serving underhanded while on the floor. It's not like he has to worry about the strength of his serve as long as he gets it over because Atobe was in some kind of godmode after Niou synchro with him. I'm more curious how Niou managed to return anything let alone a Mach Serve while on the floor. I guess he could lie on the floor and just put his racket over his head and hope it bounces back the right way.

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