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Thread: Singles Tier List

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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; December 16, 2013 at 03:25 PM.

    Spoiler show

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post

    Thing is, by Nationals he stopped being Anti-Fuji.

    So Konomi had to bring Fuji up and above Kirihara. Kirihara has been left in the dust imo.
    Fuji will wipe the floor with Kirihara right now.
    Kirihara went from Fuji tier to Kaidoh tier. That's a kick down.
    I wouldn't say that. Kirihara got devil mode by the finals. That brought him back up to Fuji after Fuji got his upgrades. By the series finish, they were pretty even. Kirihara didn't go "down" in tier. The only argument that could be made is Kaidoh went up.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    I wouldn't say that. Kirihara got devil mode by the finals. That brought him back up to Fuji after Fuji got his upgrades. By the series finish, they were pretty even. Kirihara didn't go "down" in tier. The only argument that could be made is Kaidoh went up.
    No way.
    Fuji with Closed Eye, 5th Counter, 4th Counter would have comfortably defeated Kirihara.
    Just remember, that Nationals!Tezuka without ZSS would lose to Fuji.

    You really think DM!Kirihara will comfortably handle 5th Counter? Even if it only takes a game or two from DM!Kirihara, Closed Eye + Cord Ball is going to be too much and then when he returns 5th Counter he is greeted by 6th Counter which I can tell you Kirihara won't be returning no matter what.
    I think its clear that violent play style won't work on Fuji a second time
    Fuji would wipe the floor with him.

    And sure, Kaidoh moved up to Kirihara's tier.
    Either way, Kirihara is far from Fuji tier. Fuji would kick his ass.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Kirihara was never anti-Ryoma. If anything, he was portrayed as Fuji's anti-type. Both are the prodigy of their team, Fuji is as good as Kirihara is bad, Fuji improves at the same rate as Kirihara, Fuji's playstyle is based on defensive counters, Kirihara's is based on offensive attacks. Kirihara has bloodshot eye mode, Fuji has blind eye mode. Both wanted to beat Tezuka. Both evolve when in a pinch. Both got shat on by Konomi and thrown on the bench in New PoT. There are much more comparisons with Fuji.
    No he wasn't. Kirihara being Fuji's adversary was a very last-minute change that Konomi made in the story, because he didn't have any conflict for Fuji at that point. Originally, Fuji was going to betray Seigaku and become a member of Rikkai Dai, so when Konomi decided to ditch that idea he had no real opponent for Fuji to go up against. I don't know what angle you're viewing this from, but from an actual writer's perspective this much is obvious. This, along with other things, are one of the explicit examples of how the match against Rikkai in the Kanto Finals was a very rushed and clattered affair.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    No he wasn't. Kirihara being Fuji's adversary was a very last-minute change that Konomi made in the story, because he didn't have any conflict for Fuji at that point.
    It definetely was sudden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    Originally, Fuji was going to betray Seigaku and become a member of Rikkai Dai, so when Konomi decided to ditch that idea he had no real opponent for Fuji to go up against. I don't know what angle you're viewing this from, but from an actual writer's perspective this much is obvious. This, along with other things, are one of the explicit examples of how the match against Rikkai in the Kanto Finals was a very rushed and clattered affair.
    Wait, Konomi's original idea really was to join Rikkai Dai?
    At what stage in the story?
    I'm assuming Nationals Singles would have to have had Niou out of the Singles position and he wouldn't have been given Illusion.
    Rikkai would have 9 regulars that were all good at Singles lol.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Kintaro, along with Tezuka, are the only two middle schoolers of any significant ability to have never lost to Ryoma in a match (Fuji quitting halfway in practice counts as a loss, you know there's no way Ryoma would lose that match if it finished) so I think he's doing pretty good for the backup main character.

    Not counting the main character(s), there's always this tier of characters who are out of reach for mere mortals, like Tezuka, Atobe, and Sanada, and a few others depending on what just recently happened in the story. After that you got the next tier of characters who at least could challenge this 'god tier'. Fuji is obviously one of them, and originally Kirihara was supposed to be one of them. This tier is actually pretty potent. You wouldn't expect Kaidoh to have a chance against any of those 3 guys even if he has a Super Saiyan Devil Form because guys like Tezuka simply don't lose to Kaidoh. Even someone like WoK isn't in this tier, because again Tezuka-tier characters simply don't lose to WoK level characters. Until Kirihara became totally irrelevent in NPOT, he was someone who had a shot at beating someone in this tier, so by extension Krauser defeating him easily prior to Devil Form says a lot about his power too.

    Of course by NPOT it's not clear why Kirihara ever thought he had a remote chance of beating someone in that tier when he gets smoked by Yanagi (who is definitely not in that tier). Right now I think even a bottom tier Seigaku player have a good chance of beating him especially given all the bottom tier Seigaku players become Black Jackets.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I think the person who is most comfortable at 10ball is the better if we are to compare them.
    I think its clear Ryoma is the most comfortable at 10ball.
    So do you have a reason as to why you have Kintaro above him?
    Why? It was actually very clearly stated in Ch 93 that Kintarou can rally with ten balls "with ease" now, we have no way of telling whether there's any difference between how easily he can do it and how easily Ryoma can.

    No, I've said before that they can go either way. I don't care who is above the other at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Above Kaidoh or just below.
    Personally I have no problems with this. Any other opinions here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    All irrelevant since Krauser in reality should have nothing that can KO Kawamura.
    No matter what happens Kawamura will outlast him in their exchanges of Power shots.
    Krauser couldn't last running up and down a court for... 3, 4 or 5 games?
    Why does it matter that he can't KO Kawamura? Most matches don't (or at least didn't...) end with one side being KO'd. In the same vein, it's not all about power either. I concede that in a straight on power battle, Krauser would probably lose, but why would he do that when his rallying skills are likely superior to Kawamura's?

    I think it was 4 games. Kawamura won't target the corners over and over though, so not really relevant. He survived 12 games against Kirihara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Do you disagree with Hiyoshi and Akutagawa > Ibu?
    Not like Kick Serve is phasing Hiyoshi who can stamp out Tannhauser Serve now.
    No issues with Hiyoshi > Ibu. Akutgawa I'm not sure about, depends on whether he can run down cord balls half the match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    (Fuji quitting halfway in practice counts as a loss, you know there's no way Ryoma would lose that match if it finished)
    Disagree with this. It's pretty clearly stated later on that Fuji held back, and even despite that he was leading when the match was cancelled. I think it's more like the opposite actually. Ryoma "can't lose", but by not finishing the match, Fuji can still be established as superior at that time.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why? It was actually very clearly stated in Ch 93 that Kintarou can rally with ten balls "with ease" now, we have no way of telling whether there's any difference between how easily he can do it and how easily Ryoma can.

    No, I've said before that they can go either way. I don't care who is above the other at the moment.
    It all depends if Ryoma will have the 2 non-hack doors he opened in SPoT or not I guess then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why does it matter that he can't KO Kawamura? Most matches don't (or at least didn't...) end with one side being KO'd. In the same vein, it's not all about power either. I concede that in a straight on power battle, Krauser would probably lose, but why would he do that when his rallying skills are likely superior to Kawamura's?
    If he can't KO Kawamura, he can't win. From what we've seen Krauser relies on injuring his opponents. If he can't end Kawamura, Kawamura will give him a 108th eventually and end the guy.
    If 108th was beyond what Ban could handle, and Kirihara ravaged Krauser, then Krauser isn't going to be able to handle the shot that took out a floodlight imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I think it was 4 games. Kawamura won't target the corners over and over though, so not really relevant. He survived 12 games against Kirihara.
    Lmao 4 games is just appalling no matter what.
    And he survived 7 games and was sent crashing to the ground at the end.
    5 of those games was against what I think was BM!Kirihara. DM!Kirihara is a different player, against DM!Kirihara it was a straight onslaught.

    Kawamura's rallying skills are no longer dull, or rather they shouldn't be by your theory you suggested eariler when you said you think all the BJB guys have 4ball.
    Krauser's rallying isn't necessarily great but sure it's solid.
    After his training, Kawamura will bt Krauser. It's not to say Krauser particularly improved since Nationals. Same reliance on SC since then.
    BJB on average improved at a much better rate, Kawamura himself can now hit a range of the degrees of Hadoukyuu from what we've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    No issues with Hiyoshi > Ibu. Akutgawa I'm not sure about, depends on whether he can run down cord balls half the match.
    We can break it down.
    Akutagawa is in the tier that can shit on Yuuta. He must have shat on Twist Spin Shot so we can eliminate Kick Serve.
    The cord balls? Not gonna really be too much of a problem since Akutagawa is almost always at the net.
    After seeing how he caught Kabaji's copy of MV so neatly, Jirou has this in the bag.
    It really is against Ibu since he hasn't improved notably since Districts. Ibu is one of the worst treated characters.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Disagree with this. It's pretty clearly stated later on that Fuji held back, and even despite that he was leading when the match was cancelled. I think it's more like the opposite actually. Ryoma "can't lose", but by not finishing the match, Fuji can still be established as superior at that time.
    If you want to argue about moral victories then technically Momoshiro never lost to Ryoma either (he quit halfway in the game too). Sanada didn't use Rai, and Atobe should've used his ultra aggressive style after World of Ice failed instead of doing his typical endurance type match. All these guys could have beaten Ryoma but we know Ryoma doesn't lose to anybody. If Fuji/Sanada/Atobe digged deeper to find another power up they'd just be facing an even more powered up version of Ryoma since he's the master of convenient powerups. Kintaro and Tezuka are still the only characters who managed to finish a match without losing (winning in Tezuka's case, tying in Kintarou's case) against Ryoma, so Kintaro has nothing to be complaining about.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    No way.
    Fuji with Closed Eye, 5th Counter, 4th Counter would have comfortably defeated Kirihara.
    Just remember, that Nationals!Tezuka without ZSS would lose to Fuji.

    You really think DM!Kirihara will comfortably handle 5th Counter? Even if it only takes a game or two from DM!Kirihara, Closed Eye + Cord Ball is going to be too much and then when he returns 5th Counter he is greeted by 6th Counter which I can tell you Kirihara won't be returning no matter what.
    I think its clear that violent play style won't work on Fuji a second time
    Fuji would wipe the floor with him.

    And sure, Kaidoh moved up to Kirihara's tier.
    Either way, Kirihara is far from Fuji tier. Fuji would kick his ass.
    Who on earth are you talking about? I think you completely forgot who Kirihara is. Akaya would piss on 4th counter because it's irrelevant to everyone but Habu users. Kirihara already defeated all of Fuji's prior counters without devil mode, so he is on par with Tachibana and Shiraishi at this point in the series already. Kirihara would handle GoH just like Shiraishi would. Devil mode Kirihara would have defeated it like Niou. Closed eyes is a joke, so I don't take that seriously. Fuji's winning at this point in the series would be exactly the same. It would be the 6th counter. Fuji playing against Kirihara would be just like the match against Niou, except Kirihara wouldn't be turning into other people. This means Kirihara and Fuji are still even.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron
    Of course by NPOT it's not clear why Kirihara ever thought he had a remote chance of beating someone in that tier when he gets smoked by Yanagi (who is definitely not in that tier).
    Konomi definitely didn't know he was going to make Yanagi lose later on in the manner he did. At this point in PoT2, it was still PoT1 tiers. Yanagi was still one of the best at this point. Being defeated by him is not an insult.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Fayte, Akaya isn't as good technically as Shiraishi, and even if Akaya does manage to half-return Heca (something that's not clear), Hoshi Hanabi will just beat Akaya over the head.

    In terms of the CE thing, I don't care whether or not you think CE's a joke. The fact is that Konomi put it in there, so you have to accept it and stop trying to ignore it just because you don't like it.

    Spoiler show

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    I concede Kawamura > Krauser, if nobody argues against it within the next ~48 hours, I'll switch them.

    More input on the following please:
    -Nakagauchi vs Kirihara
    -Yagyuu
    -Marui
    -Shishido

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    If you want to argue about moral victories then technically Momoshiro never lost to Ryoma either (he quit halfway in the game too). Sanada didn't use Rai, and Atobe should've used his ultra aggressive style after World of Ice failed instead of doing his typical endurance type match. All these guys could have beaten Ryoma but we know Ryoma doesn't lose to anybody. If Fuji/Sanada/Atobe digged deeper to find another power up they'd just be facing an even more powered up version of Ryoma since he's the master of convenient powerups. Kintaro and Tezuka are still the only characters who managed to finish a match without losing (winning in Tezuka's case, tying in Kintarou's case) against Ryoma, so Kintaro has nothing to be complaining about.
    Sanada and Atobe both played to the end and lost. Momoshiro with his injury probably would have lost, given that it was even while Echizen wasn't going all out, although we can't say for sure how a normal match would have gone.
    Fact is though that a gimped Fuji had a lead against Echizen when they stopped; not saying he would have won for sure, but counting it as a loss is kind of ridiculous.
    Last edited by Kaoz; January 11, 2013 at 06:05 AM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Who on earth are you talking about? I think you completely forgot who Kirihara is. Akaya would piss on 4th counter because it's irrelevant to everyone but Habu users. Kirihara already defeated all of Fuji's prior counters without devil mode, so he is on par with Tachibana and Shiraishi at this point in the series already. Kirihara would handle GoH just like Shiraishi would.
    I concede Kirihara will shatter the triple counters, but then Fuji upgraded the triple counters.
    So now we're here, Kirihara will take Houou Gaeshi, but Kirin Otoshi? It's beyond Kirihara simply because the two-handed one won't be overpowered by his smash.
    To say Kirihara is equal to Shiraishi and Tachibana is a bit of a stretch.

    and 5th Counter Kirhara will not be returning anytime soon. It took Shiraishi 3 straight games to just knock it over the net.
    and everybody on here will agree Shiraishi > Kirihara definetely so it will probably have taken Kirihara 4 games at the minimum at Nationals.
    So we're already at 4-0 Fuji.
    Whether you like it or not Fayte, Fuji's skill gets sharper in Closed Eyes State. [url]
    Its stated at Regionals Fuji surpassed Tezuka through Closed Eyes and he did the same against Niou.

    If you can't accept what Konomi has stated no matter how bad it is and are going against whats in the manga it doesn't make any sense and you can't be involved in discussions.
    Bottom line, Closed Eyes out-played Tezuka!Niou, and Niou > Kirihara obviously since becoming Tezuka would destroy Kirihara.

    There really isn't any argument. Kirihara was extremely awesome at Regionals and at Fuji's level.
    At Nationals, Fuji would tear him apart. 5th Counter for a few games and since even Shiraishi could only achieve a cord ball against it, Kirihara isn't going to do any better so 6th Counter which is something that I can only see the Top tier touching.
    Closed Eyes to handle his violent playing like it did before.
    Kirihara shouldn't even take a game off of Fuji.

    LOL I just noticed you said Base!Kirihara is equal to Shiraishi lol. Base!Kirihara got slumped by Krauser so no. No he won't.
    Shiraishi would rip apart Base!Kirihara and so will Tachibana.
    DM!Kirihara equal to do what Tezuka!Niou did? I think not. Nothing to suggest Kirihara was that good.

    Shiraishi took 3 games and he was moving desperately, so Kirihara will take at least 4 games. DM!Kirihara 3 games, the next 3 is 6th Counter to destroy him with and CLosed Eyes + Cord Ball which is something that if Niou couldn't stop, Kirihara has no chance.

    Kirihara just wasn't on Fuji's level. Fuji would wipe the floor with him.

    And regarding Yanagi and Kirihara, it explains it even more, if Yanagi wiped the floor with Kirihara, and Fuji would wipe the floor with Yanagi, Kirihara is obviously a dead man in front of Fuji by Nationals.
    Data Tennis is completely ineffective against Closed Eyes.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Konomi definitely didn't know he was going to make Yanagi lose later on in the manner he did. At this point in PoT2, it was still PoT1 tiers. Yanagi was still one of the best at this point. Being defeated by him is not an insult.
    Yanagi is part of the big 3 but he's also the weakest of the big 3. It's not surprising that Kirihara lost to him but being blown out 7-0 means he's nowhere in the same league to challenge the rest of the top tier characters, who are considerably stronger than Yanagi.

    ---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

    For Kirihara versus Fuji, Kirihara won't need to learn how to deal with the 5th counter. If he can beat it, it'd just be he turn into devil form and hit it cleanly over the net, and you'd have Yanagi saying "that move has no effect on the devil", the same way Kirihara can return Kaidoh's snake shot for no reason whatsoever when he's in Bloodshot form. It's also possible Kirihara can't beat it at all.

    Because Kirihara won't hit balls into the net (his style is hitting the ball into someone's face) that means 6th counter is completely useless on him. Of course in this case Fuji would probably develop a 6th counter that specializes in balls hit toward the face or something else equally crazy. If there's no story significant events influencing the outcome (Fuji cannot lose the POT match because losing that game means Seigaku loses and more importantly Ryoma would never have played Sanada if Fuji lost) this fight can literally go either way depending on what Konomi feels like at the moment.

    ---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

    I noticed Shiraishi was mentioned. He's basically the strongest character in the mortal tier. All his power presumably come from very hard work, and his skill comes from countless trial and error, including how he solved Fuji's 5th counter. That is certainly admirable.

    But POT is never meant to be fair. Look at the Fuji versus Shiraishi match, Fuji got his tech upgrades simply because he didn't want to lose. When those upgrades got overcome by Shiraishi, he magically learned 5th counter because again he didn't want to lose. Fuji's tier is not mortal. He's not godlike, but he doesn't need to put in effort or hard work like Shiraishi or anyone else in the mortal tier would need to do to get better. His upgrades are spontaneous and just happen because he needs one.

    Likewise Kirihara is actually in this tier too, at least originally. He came up with an equally hax-like Muga from nowhere after Fuji did his Closed Eyes, and was able to put the similar tier Fuji on the ropes until he lost due to a rather bogus reason (and I swear when he lost that point it was at deuce, but not like anyone pays attention to the actual score in POT) due to story necessity (no way the match ends without Ryoma even playing).

    So just because mortal characters have a hard time dealing with Fuji's techs doesn't mean the similarly not-mortal tier Kirihara would have a problem. You would never expect the Tezuka/Atobe/Sanada tier guys to have any problem with Fuji's techs. They'd be able to hit it back by simply invoking their name. Now Kirihara isn't this tier where you enjoy the ability to defeat your opponent by just saying your name, so the outcome could go either way against Fuji.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Fuji rarely ever plays seriously, in POT he only went all out three times, against kirihaya, against shiraishi, and against niou, he won the first, lost the second, but technically he surpassed shiraishi by beating niou!shiraishi, and most of his upgrades come after he watches tezukas matches, he gained his closed eyes state after he saw how hard tezuka fought against atobe, surpassing tezuka at that point, he gained his upgraded original triple counters and fifth counter after tezuka unsealed his pinnacle of hard work, and gained his sixth counter after tezuka awakened his pinnacle of wisdom, and at that point at nationals he surpassed tezuka(not counting ZSS), although with his sixth counter even the ZSS might not save tezuka. Fuji sees tezuka play hard or improve somehow, then faces a tough opponent, and finds a way to surpass whatever upgrade tezuka recently gained, now in SPot he saw tezuka have a good match against yamato, gain the pinnacle of perfection, and he faced tezuka and got owned, fuji never loses to the same opponent twice, next time he plays he will have some new amazing counters or another kind of upgrade that put him back in the top tier, thats just how fuji is in the series

    right now, ryoma, sanada, kintaru, and akutsu are the only known msers that can hit 5 or more balls(kintaru, ryoma, akutsu know can hit 10 for sure, sanada probably can but its not shown yet), so its safe to say they may be the highest tier middle schoolers in camp right now(tezuka left), maybe yukimura and/or atobe in their league

    kirihaya has improved with his new angel mode, but yanagi is one of the revolutionaries, which means he's improved more than any mser that stayed in camp(this seems to be the case, but just because he's improved more doesn't mean he can beat all the msers that stayed, just that he has improved more individually, since super tennis guy will still get owned by tachibana)

    now i mainly want to know how sanadas black aura will stack up against tezuka and yukimura now
    Last edited by redhairSH; January 11, 2013 at 08:56 PM.

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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    I know Fuji is obviously meant to be 'one step away Tezuka tier' but the fact that he's never lost to the same guy twice isn't really saying much simply because you almost never play the same guy twice in POT.

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