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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Singles Tier List
Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.
Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.
On Momoshiro vs Chitose, that's a fair point. Depending on whenever Chitose go stupid and decide to hit back BJK, the score can range anywhere from 6-0 to 7-6.
When WoK played the third string synchro pair, they lost, although it says that they just barely lost. In all of the 3rd vs 5th court shuffle matches, oni made his choices in a way that every player that he put in there would come out of the match better than when they went in, akaya, tezuka, atobe, krauser, shiraishi all came out with new or unlocked abilities(although with shiraishi he just unlocked his arms true potential by taking off his gauntlet), so since WoK was in that match, even though they lost, they gained something as well
it is shown here that at the very end of the match, they used a wild beast like synchro. Based on the score of the match, if they took the time to practice this ability(and they have had some time to do this, 11 days, and we know all the mser's were training getting ready for the 1st string), then it seems like they would be able to wipe the floor with the 3rd court synchro team. Once tezuka gained TnK, he can now activate it at will, once atobe got atobe kingdom, he can now use it at will, so its safe to assume that WoK will be able to use their wild beast syncho technique in matches before the very end now, they barely lost when they used just their base abilities almost the entire match, wild beast synchro would get them an easy win against 3rd court synchro
If they can use it freely in the same way that TnK and Atobe Kingdom can be use, it must last until the end of the match. This means that it is either insufficient to beat 3rd court or they can't use it freely yet. I think it's the second option.
Last edited by -Ken-; January 31, 2013 at 05:07 PM.
Please re-check my post. I edited a second half to it lol.
---------- Post added February 01, 2013 at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was January 31, 2013 at 11:05 PM ----------
Please reply to the second half if you have time lol.
I know its long but I strongly feel that the order of NO.s 11-20 isn't as simple as it looks in order of strength.
Just a short notice that I gave away the OP of this thread, in case anyone cares.
Well, for the first part of your post, look at my post at the beginning of this page.
Well, if the number 1-10 are based on strength. It look like coach have no problem setting it the way it is, with, as you say, no 1-6 being singles and 7&8, 9&10 being doubles. Why can't they do the same thing with the ranking in 11-20? with 11, 12, 13, 14, being singles and 15&16, 17&18, 19&20 being doubles? I think that hint that there are some strength level at play there. I don't see Akiba, who is a "Singles" player, winning against Date, for example. Perhaps they are rank based on power level, and players such as Ban and Hara being select to be Date and Taira partner because they go well together in terms of partnership.
Like you say, we don't know. Ban and Hara base stats should be fairly high regardless, though, as I think they would be replaced by some random 1st court otherwise.
As for 3rd court singles wise, the only singles player are probably Nakagauchi and Takei. Yamato true ability is most likely higher than 3rd court, because he hide Yume tech until his match with Tezuka. He also is very strongly hint to have another tech that is strong enough that caused his arm to be the way it is.
Unfortunately, we can't judge much from Takei because he went up against Oni. He should be weaker than Nakagauchi. That much we do knows. And he's not in doubles since doubles 1 and 2 had their own pair.
Nakagauchi is shown to be pretty impressive, though. He beat Krauser which thrash red eyes Kirihara pretty easily (it strongly hinted that Kirihara didn't get a point until he used devil mode, although Krauser got mope with the floor when Kirihara does obtain the mode)
It doesn't mean much for that, though, because we knows Fuji who beat Kirihara got beaten by Tachibana before National begins, although Fuji didn't used closed eyes during that much. However, Nakagauchi also beats Krauser by a fairly huge margin, as it looks like Krauser on score on Nakagauchi using Southern Cross.
While losing in doubles may not means much due to possible getting along well with your partner, the reason that I say 3rd court is really pretty high in power is due to Chikahiko's flower serve, which even National! Shiraishi can't break.
I think that gotta counts for something in imaginary cases that Shiraishi were playing Chikahiko in singles without taking his gauntlet off. Miyako stats are also around the same as Chikahiko.
The reason I don't mention Doubles 1 at all is because we don't see their stat sheet. I just assume they are doubles 1 because they are strong as a pair due to syncho that they have.
I see Chikahiko as kind of equal to National! Shiraishi, as I said before, National! Shiraishi can't break flower serve. Miyako is unknown, but since his stats looks similar to Chikahiko and Kaoz said he plays singles 3, he's probably decent enough too.
Also, I don't think Kenya is that bad at all. He steals 3 points from Shiraishi outs out 10 points in the tie break battle against him. That's really good. 4th counter Fuji get own by the same person without gaining a point. That seemed to heavily suggests that Keyna is stronger than 4th counter Fuji. Kenya's definitely not that low in term of tier. He's probably stronger than Jirou, because Jirou lost to Kantou non-serious Fuji 6-1. I don't think he's as strong in singles as WoK, but he's certainly is not crap.
I stay with the current time. You're the one living in the past, and even try to back it up with the non-existence evidence. The point is that your point won't be prove UNTIL they had their next match. So you're wrong until then. Reasonable people back up their assumption with evidence. Since this is manga discussion forum, you back it up with evidence in the manga.
Renji, ex high-tier, lost to no 17. Time is different now. People who claim old high tier characters are still high tier as they are people who had just cling to the past glory.
If you takes future into accounts. Echizen is on top of the tier list. We KNOWS he'll be there. Every time I mention this, you ignore it. No characters except Nanjorou will be above Echizen at the end of the manga. If we takes future into accounts, we should be fair to every single characeters, not just some ex-high tier that just lost to 3rd court fodder.
Well, maybe Tezuka can also be applied with this rule. We already get confirmation that he'll win Grand Slam or some major pro tournament sometimes after U-17 camp. That's pro level tennis. Not some kiddy high school tennis. And his elbow doesn't even shown to be injured in that picture. That shows either he can use his current tech without drawback, or he invent new tech that doesn't have those drawback. But that doesn't matter. Tezuka's in pro tier. That's high and above what any characters can hope to be beside maybe Echizen and Nanjirou.
That's how stupid argument that takes into future potential is.
Last edited by -Ken-; February 10, 2013 at 12:58 AM.
But definetely not at Singles level.
---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------
From 1-10 nice and easy to understand.
But with 11-20, Altough I expect Date > Akiba and Ban > Akiba, I do not expect Mutsu > Mitsuya personally.
I expect Akiba to beat Hara.
Which is what we expect No.12 > 13.
But... Do we ever actually see Ban winning a point by himself?
What if it was Date hitting those the Summers and Springs of Danji off-screen?
Remember there can be 8 of 1st Court and remove Tanegashima who is No.2 and Tokugawa who is sitting there because he only wants to beat Byoudouin and is unquestionably Top5 level.
And also Yamato was chosen to take on the Top10 as part of G10 VS HSers.
As doubles, it's pretty not debatable at this point.
For singles, at first I agree with you until I reread the match and Kaoz throw in some more match up that those 3rd court have.
Like I said before, Chikahiko's flower serve wasn't breakable by Shiraishi until he takes off the gauntlet. I consider Shiraishi to be the same level as WoK in singles. I didn't check Kaoz line-up if it were true, but if it is, it shows that Miyako, Nakagauchi, and Chikahiko are 3rd court level in SIngles. It means each one of them are strong players singles wise. And Nakagauchi pretty much shows how strong that is by crushing Krasuer, player who crush red eye Kirihara entirely, without much efforts.
If Shiraishi can't break flower serve, he's in for a rough match. As for stat wise, as the camp sheet show, Natioanl! Shiraishi is around the same level as them, too. Kirihara is lower, but that's only if he's not using Demon mode. But 3rd court does not hesitate to fight demon mode at all. In fact, they are trying to pull that out on purpose.
If they face demon mode without being strong enough, they will end up like Inui in National. But the fact that they are trying to lure it out means they are confident that it wouldn't wipe the floor with them. They end up facing angel mode instead, which crush them, but that's not saying they are weak at all, because they are not facing National Shiraishi and Kirihara any longer, but no gauntlet Shiraishi and Angel mode Kirihara instead.
I don't see WoK being above Shiraishi at all. Maybe Chitose with SnK in singles. That's about it. In fact, Shiraishi power was pretty even with Beast Aura Tachibana, as shown by the same punching bag Fuji
Yeah, Fuji racquet break in one, but the ball also jump MUCH higher in another. I would say that's pretty even. I don't the coach making mistake in their stat sheet like Atobe (that they say about raising Atobe's mental), so I would say the stat sheet are pretty accurate. Those player's stat are close enough that I would assume they are player of the same level.
Yamato being 1st court would further shows that Tachibana/Chitose/(with gauntlet) Shiraishi are not near 1st stringer level. Yamato was fighting evenly with Tezuka, player who 6-1 (or 2? I don't remember) Chitose. That is unless you want to suggest those three are stronger than National! Tezuka, which I would debate with you on that if you want to. 1st stringer singles should > 1st court singles. If Yamato were actually 1st stringer level, it wouldn't make much difference either. It shows 1st stringer or 1st court would 6-1(2?) high tier of the past.
Last edited by -Ken-; February 10, 2013 at 02:27 PM.
So Kenya > 4thCounter!Fuji is pretty excellent. I've probably been looking down on him a bit too much.
My problem is how useless he was against Taira/Hara. Both he and Momo were shat on completely by them prior to BJK.
I estimate Kenya to be somewhere around where Hirakoba/Hiyoshi/Marui/Kikumaru tier?
---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------
Secondly, Nationals!Shiraishi was paired with Prefecturals!Kirihara since he didnt even use Bloodshot Mode. He was held back in that match totally.
Matsudaira/Miyako, who's stats compliment each other and seem to be comfortable in Doubles together, against Nationals!Shiraishi and Prefecturals!Kirihara who have zero kind of Doubles prowess together.
Prefecturals!Kirihara would die against a lot of people at that stage in the series.
Individually, should we really expect Matsudaira to be able to use Flower Serve for 6 service games?
I doubt it. There is no special serve move that can do that once you reach Mid tier and above.
Since even Hiyoshi can return Tannhauser serve for example.
Remember that neither Miyako/Matsudaira can do shit against Entaku Shot lol.
Nationals!Shiraishi > Matsudara and Miyako. He hadn't used Entaku Shot, but when he did, they were raped lol.
I don't see why on earth Nakagauchi, Miyako or Matsudaira could defend against Saiki Kanpatsu from Chitose.
So Shiraishi and Chitose I think are clearly at least 2nd Court level in Singles.
When I say 2nd Court, I hope you know what I mean, since I mean Yamato level who may even be 1st Court level, and Kai/Jackal level or Yuuta level who are also in 2nd Court lol.
Do you ever take the "story" into account, or what? Shiraishi is never known for his strength, but his finesse. Konomi (from the beginning of the series) wrote Tachibana's character as being a strong guy. Entaku shot is not power. It is technique. Abare dama is power. Beast aura is power. There are few characters like this in the series, and they have been mentioned multiple times. Sanada, Kintarou, Momoshiro, and Tachibana. That's it. Shiraishi doesn't make the cut. I agree that their stats are even, but I would disagree if you think Shiraishi's "power" stat in particular isn't lower than Tachibana's.Originally Posted by Ken