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Thread: Singles Tier List

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Singles Tier List

    Singles Tier List

    Spoiler: U-17 Singles Revised (In Progress) show


    Spoiler: U-17 Singles show


    Spoiler: Prefecturals - Tokyo - Kanto - Nationals show


    Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.

    Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
    Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.

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    Post Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Marui surely saw Hirakoba using it here:
    Good point lol. I now agree its more likely that Hirakoba is yet to master Ohabu completely.
    But his stats are just better than Kai.
    I mean, Kai's stat total is worse than Chinen's. Kai is VH and nothing else.
    There's no way that Kai is still the clear-cut 2nd in Higa anymore. He and Hirakoba have to be equal at the minimum.
    Same with Jirou and Yushi.
    Like, before Konomi put this stuff in his Pair Puri's, people didn't even question who was the No.2 of Hyotei and Higa.
    When you look at the info on characters by Konomi, the storyline and ignore the PP's, you couldn't come to the conclusion of Kai/Jirou being No.2's in their school.
    I say Yushi and Hirakoba have to be No.2 or equal to Jirou and Kai respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    So nothing really shows us that he can hit it more than once per match
    For him to just spam it casually in a match implies he can still use Habu's after using an Ohabu I think. Its meant to be a massive finishing move.
    Although it can be argued that he was finishing the match in the panel that we saw him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    I was thinking about this the other day... and there are some things that make it hard to tier doubles.

    I mean, considering that Momo/Kenya is B tier, that means that every single other pair with Momo is B tier too (Momoshiro/Kikumaru
    Momoshiro/ Kawamura and Momoshiro/Kaido), -unless you wanna argue that he can only hit BJK when he plays with Kenya, lol - that would mean that B tier should be called Momo tier or something like that.
    Excellent point. Like this is a seriously good point.
    Momoshiro/Kaidoh is a significantly better pair than Momoshiro/Kenya.

    Momoshiro/Kikumaru and Momoshiro/Echizen would even be a B Tier pair lol.

  3. #1442
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Good point lol. I now agree its more likely that Hirakoba is yet to master Ohabu completely.
    But his stats are just better than Kai.
    I mean, Kai's stat total is worse than Chinen's. Kai is VH and nothing else.
    There's no way that Kai is still the clear-cut 2nd in Higa anymore. He and Hirakoba have to be equal at the minimum.
    Same with Jirou and Yushi.
    Like, before Konomi put this stuff in his Pair Puri's, people didn't even question who was the No.2 of Hyotei and Higa.
    When you look at the info on characters by Konomi, the storyline and ignore the PP's, you couldn't come to the conclusion of Kai/Jirou being No.2's in their school.
    I say Yushi and Hirakoba have to be No.2 or equal to Jirou and Kai respectively.
    Well, Kai's stats really surprised me. He even went to the mountain camp yet he has like 2 or 3 points less than Hirakoba. It's possible that Hirakoba is nowadays better (I mean, everything he has to offer seems better than what Kai has) but I think that we'll never know unless Konomi confirms it in a databook, cause there's no way they'll get another match in the manga apparently.

    With Jirou... it could be said the same, except that this isn't as unbalanced as the other comparision. Jirou was still the no.2 after the tie break matches, and Yuushi doesn't have a spammable special move that could make him a way better player (like Hirakoba has). He only has 1 more point in tech compared to Jirou, and I guess that his wrists are enough to balance it.

    In any case, even if Hirakoba > Kai or Yuushi > Jirou, there isn't anything that makes any of them 1 entire tier above the other.

    And yes, I believe that Momo/anything he paired before is better than Momo/Kenya.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    I know it's tough on you jose...imagine me
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  4. #1443
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    May I ask why Taira/Hara are in the same tier as Date/Ban? Or more importantly, still in Momoshiro/Kenya's tier?
    Momoshiro solo'd Taira/Hara after BJK. Now that BJK has arrived, they aren't even same tier since neither member of the pair can continue playing after the release of BJK.
    @Date/Ban
    There's not much of a reason beyond both of the pairs being part of the 11-20. Date certainly seems to be a level above Taira and Hara, but with Ban it's not so clear cut. I wasn't really sure about this one to be honest.

    @Momoshiro/Kenya
    We don't know what happened after the BJK, and as you pointed out some time ago, Momoshiro still got additional injuries afterwards, implying that it was a close match. If the match report reveals something new, then a tier difference might very well be debatable, but for now I don't think it's warranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Also, due to Kimijima and Ochi's Mental being equal, isn't there no way that Ochi/Mouri can win?
    Although I guess they could still be in the same tier.
    If you're referring to the pressure amplification, it could still work on Tohno. Also, Ochi's mental being so high could also mean he's less prone to being affected by Kimijima's Negotiation. I do think that Kimijima/Tohno have the advantage, but I don't think it's enough for it to be a tier difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    I was thinking about this the other day... and there are some things that make it hard to tier doubles.

    I mean, considering that Momo/Kenya is B tier, that means that every single other pair with Momo is B tier too (Momoshiro/Kikumaru
    Momoshiro/ Kawamura and Momoshiro/Kaido), -unless you wanna argue that he can only hit BJK when he plays with Kenya, lol - that would mean that B tier should be called Momo tier or something like that.
    Yeah, I noticed this too when I was writing the list of pairs that still had to be tiered. Maybe we could exclude pairs like Momoshiro/Kawamura, and only tier the PoT pairs that played together more often?

  5. #1444
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Kimijima wasn't even at 60% when he was playing. And that's during basically the whole match, as once he noticed Tohno had gone beyond 60%, he didn't even mention that Tohno was going all-out. And due to Kimijima's nature, he would have said that Tohno was going all-out.
    So they can't be in the same tier.

    So for Kite/Marui going all-out to be equal to Kimijima/Tohno not going all-out, they can't be in the same tier.
    That doesn't mean if they were going 100% they could see through the WC right? Tohno couldn't beat the WC without throwing his racket.

    This is also assuming that Kimijima's stats are real and that they aren't just about his negotiation skills? One could say that the reason he was going 60% because his negotiation with Marui still hadn't gone through.

  6. #1445
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    @Date/Ban
    There's not much of a reason beyond both of the pairs being part of the 11-20. Date certainly seems to be a level above Taira and Hara, but with Ban it's not so clear cut. I wasn't really sure about this one to be honest.
    I was thinking that if Summer of Danji can take out Kabaji/Kawamura to the point Date comfortably sat out and let Ban solo Kawamura/Kabaji all the way to match-point and Kawamura saying how they can't let Date hit the ball, it means that had Date started spamming his Winter of Danji's, he would have slaughtered them.

    I don't see how if Taira/Hara can't beat BJK how they can stand up to Winter of Danji's on repeat. I see Date slaying them and Ban being more or less okay. He has a higher stat total and tanked a 25th Degree Hadoukyuu with a grin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    @Momoshiro/Kenya
    We don't know what happened after the BJK, and as you pointed out some time ago, Momoshiro still got additional injuries afterwards, implying that it was a close match. If the match report reveals something new, then a tier difference might very well be debatable, but for now I don't think it's warranted.
    Yeah, they definitely injured Momoshiro seriously afterwards cause he was bloody as hell afterwards.
    We gathered it had to have been Hara who did that since Hara is the one who does smashes aimed at the body.
    I mean, for Momo/Kenya to come out on top, it must have been ALL Momo no? Since Kenya showed no ability that could let him win a point in that match.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; November 13, 2013 at 11:28 AM.

  7. #1446
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Yeah, they definitely injured Momoshiro seriously afterwards cause he was bloody as hell afterwards.
    We gathered it had to have been Hara who did that since Hara is the one who does smashes aimed at the body.
    I mean, for Momo/Kenya to come out on top, it must have been ALL Momo no? Since Kenya showed no ability that could let him win a point in that match.
    Well, I'm sure Taira didn't just stand around doing nothing for the rest of the match. And while Kenya couldn't score, he certainly should be capable of keeping the ball in play for a couple rallies, so I wouldn't say it was only thanks to Momoshiro that they won (although he was most certainly responsible for scoring points).

    That's fair enough for Date/Ban. I don't feel like they should be in the same tier as the G10 pairs though. On the other hand, I feel like Taira/Hara should be above the pairs in C Tier, so should we make another tier for Date/Ban? If so, would they be the only pair in there? Or could that be a good place for say, Kite/Marui as well?

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    Post Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Well, I'm sure Taira didn't just stand around doing nothing for the rest of the match. And while Kenya couldn't score, he certainly should be capable of keeping the ball in play for a couple rallies, so I wouldn't say it was only thanks to Momoshiro that they won (although he was most certainly responsible for scoring points).
    Taira?
    And also Kenya probably didn't stand around he probably ran around hitting a shot that goes beyond Momoshiro just like he was doing when they first got stunned by Bakyuun. At most. His stats, just like Momoshiro's stats, tell me that Taira/Hara outplayed them but the moment Momo touched the ball he spammed BJK and its almost certain that they didn't win the entire set, Momo/Kenya probably won by 3-5 but Taira/Hara forfeited due to the pain of BJK.
    Personally I think his effectiveness isn't far from nothing. In fact, all Taira has to do is spam Bakyuun so that Kenya remains out of the match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    That's fair enough for Date/Ban. I don't feel like they should be in the same tier as the G10 pairs though. On the other hand, I feel like Taira/Hara should be above the pairs in C Tier, so should we make another tier for Date/Ban? If so, would they be the only pair in there? Or could that be a good place for say, Kite/Marui as well?
    Good call actually.
    Kite/Marui and Date/Ban should be in their own tier. Ban more or less solo'd Kawamura/Kabaji all the way to match point as Date appeared for about 3-4 points like you said.
    So they are a seriously strong pair.
    Since in all seriousness they would slaughter the pairs below them imo.
    Mutsu/Mutsu can Synchro, so doesn' that mean they can overcome the Kite/Marui Ohabu+WC combo?
    Since they can spread out on the court and share the vision on where the Ohabu is going? Drawing at straws there.

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    That doesn't mean if they were going 100% they could see through the WC right? Tohno couldn't beat the WC without throwing his racket.
    They could have lobbed him.
    And I'm not convinced though. Tohno hadn't completed his EM Countdown and Kimijima was below 60%.
    Kimijima's stats are most likely real to his ability though.
    Look at how he played against Marui/Kite without ever going above 60%, he took a surprise Ohabu to the face and didn't even flinch or freaking blink.
    Whilst Marui took a surprise Ohabu and fell on the floor like a bitch. Kimijima's Power has to be higher than Marui's. Kimijima's 4 is real. Marui's 2 is real.

  9. #1448
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Personally I think his effectiveness isn't far from nothing. In fact, all Taira has to do is spam Bakyuun so that Kenya remains out of the match.
    How spamable is Bakyuun though? Also I still think it's not that fast, so I kinda feel like Momoshiro would have an easier time using BJK against Bakyuun than against normal speed shots. I dunno though, I'd really like to see what the fanbook says about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Mutsu/Mutsu can Synchro, so doesn' that mean they can overcome the Kite/Marui Ohabu+WC combo?
    Since they can spread out on the court and share the vision on where the Ohabu is going? Drawing at straws there.
    Shouldn't work. Remember that the strength of the combo is that you can't see Ohabu's course until it passes Marui. I mean, I guess they could go to the very sides of the court and see it that way, but I'm not convinced that they'd actually be able to get back to the middle of the court and reach the shot in time, go back to the outside etc., not to mention it would probably consume a lot of stamina.

  10. #1449
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    It should work, they share senses. So, if the Ohabu is hit to the right side of the court that means that the player in the right side can't see it, but the player on the left is still watching the course. There's no need to do any moves nor anything, so it shouldn't waste stamina.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    It should work, they share senses. So, if the Ohabu is hit to the right side of the court that means that the player in the right side can't see it, but the player on the left is still watching the course. There's no need to do any moves nor anything, so it shouldn't waste stamina.
    What if he hits it in the middle? How are they going to reach it without moving?

  12. #1451
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    If he hits it in the middle and both players can see it, they'll have to move yes, just like any other shot that goes to the middle. The thing is, the Ohabu's entire course will be seen, so it shouldn't be that hard to return.

    Now, let's make a what if scenario where Kite hits a Habu perfectly in the middle and both his opponents are in a perfect line in the middle (some kind of australian formation but badly done), to make Ohabu as good as against Tohno/Kimijima. Seriously, how often could that happen, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
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  13. #1452
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    But then they have to move back to the outside to see the next one, and then back to the middle to hit it again and so on. Surely that would drain their stamina more quickly than normal.

    And what. Kimijima and Tohno each were on their side, just not super far on the outside.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_p...08/c090/4.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_p...08/c090/6.html

    ---------- Post added November 23, 2013 at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was November 19, 2013 at 08:05 PM ----------

    Spoiler show


    Updated list. floman is so far the only one who has suggested positions for the untiered pairs (unless Hardy's opinions haven't changed at all from back when he made his list?):

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    Spoiler show
    Note that I adjusted the tier names in this quote since I added one to the list as well.

    A few comments from my side:
    1. Kirihara cannot use AM/SDM when paired with Yanagi.
    2. I don't see them losing to the majority of the pairs you have in D- either way.

    I think Tezuka/Inui and Sanada/Yanagi could fit nicely into the new B Tier as well, maybe even A. Kind of depends on how great of a liability Inui and Yanagi are. Still haven't formed much of an opinion on the rest.
    Also, I didn't intend to give WoK two entries on the final list if that wasn't clear, so some discussion on whether we should tier them with or without MnS would be nice.

  14. #1453
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    I can see Tezuka/Inui in A. PoP Kintarou takes a game off PoP Oni. (winning 1 out of 2 game is decent enough) From what we've seen, Tanegashima alone solo Sanada/Akutsu. PoP Oni should be above Kishin Oni and it's not even confirm that Tangegashima was even with Kishin form or Oni sealed form. I don't think PoP Tezuka is much weaker than Kintarou, if at all weaker. I'll say there's enough benefits of doubt to say Tezuka can do something similar as well.

    I'll say Sanada/Yanagi is B rank, though. Can't believe I'm saying it, but Sanada isn't as strong as Tezuka right now, in my opinion.

    And I would tier WoK without MnS for now. They haven't perfect it yet last time we saw them in a match.
    Last edited by -Ken-; November 23, 2013 at 04:50 AM.
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Well, the main issue in Tezuka's case is that Inui still has to touch the ball once in half the points, and Inui most certainly isn't anywhere near G10 level.

    Also, I just noticed that I completely forgot about Yanagi/Inui - do we want to tier them as well?

  16. #1455
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Tier List (Singles and Doubles)

    Yeah, I want to tier those two. I'm thinking C for now.


    For Tezuka/Inui, I think Inui can definitely get enough data not to be a liability. He did beat #17, when all the data and plot is involve.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

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