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Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

  1. #1651
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    There's Itachi for Sasuke and Akatsuki like Nagato or Tobi for Naruto. There wouldn't be just training, but fighting enemies and going out on missions as well, like Land of Waves mission. Since there are Akatsuki, Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi could be sent to capture them, where we can see hints of Itachi and buildups to Itachi vs. Sasuke and Naruto vs. Akatsuki boss. At least one way that Sasuke's different from most villains is that he only seeks revenge, not world domination or monetary riches.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    The thing is, though, in a manga that preaches love and acceptance, etc., it's really hard to have a good guy seek revenge. I think that the moment Sasuke's vengeance superseded his love and companionship with Team 7, there was no real way to have Sasuke be a good guy...at least until after Itachi was dead, and even then, he would have killed his brother...I dunno, it's kinda hard to see how Sasuke as a good guy throughout the time skip would've worked out.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    It wouldn't really be hard though. Up until his meeting with Tobi, Sasuke could have still been a good guy or viewed as one if he wasn't trying to kill his teammates. He never killed anyone, he didn't even bother to kill those 1,000 shinobi that he was training with simply because they had nothing to do with his goal.

    Sasuke can be a revenge-driven protagonist as well, like he kinda was in part I. Continuously training and improving himself while seeking power to get revenge. He'd protect his friends and village and not kill unnecessarily, etcetc.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Even then though, he was more of an anti-hero than a good guy. At the end of the day, revenge isn't really something you can have your good guys pursuing when your example for "good" is Naruto or Minato or whatever.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Sasuke wouldn't necessarily be a white knight, he can be more like the dark knight, like Vegeta or Hiei. Though, Sasuke would want revenge on the guy that destroyed his life and killed innocent people, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. If Sasuke doesn't use revenge as motivation to kill others or anything, then it's very doable that he stays a good guy. He was more of a hero than antihero to me in Part I when they set on their mission to protect the bridge builder and during that mission. Antihero would be more like Part II, where he didn't really do anything villainous (and up to that point, he was kinda a good guy, going after a known criminal and a villain and taking down a major villain), but he tried to kill the good guys.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Sasuke wouldn't necessarily be a white knight, he can be more like the dark knight, like Vegeta or Hiei.
    I never really watched Yu Yu Hakusho, so I don't know much about Hiei, but Vegeta started out evil and made the transition to becoming good...Sasuke would have essentially started off good and be slowly becoming more evil.


    Quote Quote:
    If Sasuke doesn't use revenge as motivation to kill others or anything, then it's very doable that he stays a good guy. He was more of a hero than antihero to me in Part I when they set on their mission to protect the bridge builder and during that mission. Antihero would be more like Part II, where he didn't really do anything villainous (and up to that point, he was kinda a good guy, going after a known criminal and a villain and taking down a major villain), but he tried to kill the good guys.
    Sorry, this is my fault...I meant that post-Naruto vs. Sasuke clash on the roof of the hospital, he was basically an anti-hero. I said in another thread that I felt Sasuke was more heroic than Naruto for a little bit, and I think he was good guy. He sacrificed himself multiple times, he was definitely a good guy. Once he realized that Itachi was still so far ahead of him though, and not to mention Naruto's rapid ascension, his desire to protect those dear to him fell to the wayside, and his desire for vengeance motivated him.

    I couldn't really see him staying in Konoha for multiple reasons.

    One, you'd have to come up with a new character to train him, basically...Jiraiya was already training Naruto, Kakashi couldn't really show him that much more, and there were no other Uchiha around. I guess Kakashi would've ended up being his best bet for training, but I mean...Kakashi was one-shotted by Itachi as well, and apparently, given the tools and such at Orochimaru's disposal, it was easier for Sasuke to train. In addition, going with Orochimaru meant that he could train his curse seal more easily, as opposed to Kakashi's wish for him to not use it at all.

    Two, like I said earlier, the good guys seem to be led by this "pure of heart" kinda thing right now...I honestly couldn't see Kakashi or Naruto letting Sasuke go after Itachi to kill him. Unless Sasuke allowed himself to be converted, staying with Team 7 would direct go against his endgame plans, so it makes no sense for him to do it.

    Three, it was fine for him to stay with them in Part 1, since he wasn't anywhere near strong enough to compete with Itachi. In addition, there were things that Kakashi could teach him, etc. Outside of Kamui, though, I don't even know how Kakashi beats Sasuke as introduced in Part 2. Sasuke's manipulation of Chidori seemed to have exceeded Kakashi's, and snake summons probably trounce Kakashi's dogs. If Sasuke got to the point of being better than Kakashi through his training (assuming he stayed in Konoha), he still would've left once he surpassed Kakashi...there wouldn't really be any meaning in him staying.


    I honestly think point 2 is the most important part of this. Even if he could stay with them training and such, at the end of the day, he'd be attempting to kill someone. Eventually, he would've had to leave. There's no real moral ambiguity on Naruto's side (since he's Jesus and all of that), so it wouldn't do to have Sasuke there unless his character completely changed.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by Bokkle View Post
    Plus the series would be very boring if Sasuke stayed in Konoha and train with Naruto and Kakashi and Sakura. Who would watch 200 episodes of that crap? Kishi is doing us a favor by making Sasuke the villain.
    I wouldn't mind if he stayed in konhoa and train with naruto...
    I would like to see sasuke helping naruto to control kyuubi with his sharingan, and everytime naruto is going to beserk sasuke jumps in and says: "bad kitty, sit"
    I also liked how both tried to be better then the other(for example: tree climbing training during the wave arc)

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by DementedKirby View Post
    Eyesight isn't muscle movement or reaction. Eyesight is a sense that is as fast as light to every organism with an eyeball. You see something because light reflects off it and enters your eye. Sasuke looking at the bones inches from his face in order to ignite them in Amaterasu is not a feat of speed, agility, or reflexes. Just because he was able to ignite Susano'o in time doesn't mean he's literally faster than A. If he were faster, he would've done an offensive counter instead of a defensive counter. If Sasuke were as fast as claimed, why not whip out his katana, infuse it with lightning, and impale A when he was charging at him? Why not dodge A's attack altogether? Hell, why not just look at A in the eyes and get him in Tsukoyomi? Because he couldn't.
    It's not that simple at all. The light entering the eyes still has to be processed by the brain, which then has to send the single to the body to act. Anyway, Sasuke didn't just ignite the bones in front of him, he ignited the entire ribcage in a single motion. That is a feat of reflex speed, as Sasuke had to realize that Ee had gone, realize he needed a better defense, think of warping Amaterasu around the bone, and then do that, all while Ee was a couple of feet away from him. The whole reason he used his MS techniques are because they were instantaneous, unlike having to go get his sword and then fuse it with lightning, something that had also been proven to be ineffective against Ee's Lightning Cloak. As for dodging, Sasuke likely assumed his defenses was enough to keep Ee at bay. After all, who would actually think of touching the Amaterasu flames on purpose.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Up until Itachi came back to Konoha, Sasuke was a good guy who was willing to die for others. NOt until he saw just how much stronger Itachi was that he started to go down the dark path, getting jealous of Naruto getting stronger and such. Naruto and Kakashi may have let Sasuke get his revenge, Kakashi anyway seeing as how he was training Sasuke to fight Itachi. Itachi was a bad guy and extremely powerful, only Sasuke had the potential to take him on.

    Plus, we don't know how well Kakashi would have trained Sasuke.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Up until Itachi came back to Konoha, Sasuke was a good guy who was willing to die for others. NOt until he saw just how much stronger Itachi was that he started to go down the dark path, getting jealous of Naruto getting stronger and such. Naruto and Kakashi may have let Sasuke get his revenge, Kakashi anyway seeing as how he was training Sasuke to fight Itachi. Itachi was a bad guy and extremely powerful, only Sasuke had the potential to take him on.

    Plus, we don't know how well Kakashi would have trained Sasuke.
    I agree with the first part, I stated the same thing; once he realized how far Itachi still was and that even Naruto was catching up, he started going down the wrong path.

    The second part is a difference in opinion, I suppose. I definitely couldn't see Naruto letting Sasuke kill someone, and considering that Kakashi wouldn't let Naruto-tachi see him give the finishing blow to Kakuzu (nor would he let Naruto and Sakura see him kill Sasuke), I can't imagine him letting Sasuke kill Itachi.

    As far as the training goes...Kakashi is a genius. He created Chidori before he even had the Sharingan. He's exceptionally gifted all-around. However, I can't really see him being a better teacher than Orochimaru. And considering the tools Orochimaru and Kabuto have access to, I can't see Kakashi making Sasuke stronger than Orochimaru did, especially since Sasuke can't use Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu. I also have to think that if Kakashi could've created Chidori Nagashi, etc., he would have done so already...at the very least, Chidori Nagashi and Chidori Eisou are useful techniques to have.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    I think Kishi handled the whole Sasuke and Itachi thing quite terribly. Early on it was fine, it had intense emotion, high drama, and great intrigue. But as soon as Kishi decided to flip the roles of Itachi and Sasuke he essentially flushed down the toilet all of that he built. Which includes all of Part I and a good chunk of Part II. I can't understand how he wanted this to play out. Sasuke went from someone who was very much so a "victim" and had every right to "right a wrong" because his brother went psycho on his family, to suddenly being the "bad" guy of the manga. While Itachi went from the "bad" guy, to the selfless almost saint like character who always does the greater good. Yet the only reason that Sasuke is who he is today is because Itachi kept grabbing him by his throat and dragging him down that path.

    And later on we find out Kishi somehow had Itachi do what he did in the hopes that Sasuke would be a "hero" and go back to Konoha to live a normal life after killing him. To me thats just terrible writing through and through. You can't forcefully spoon feed someone negative emotions and dark thoughts again and again and expect them not to turn out to be anything other then a negative and dark person Kishi basically sacrificed what he had created between those two so that he could bring in Madara and the whole Uchiha vs. Senju thing.To me this Itachi and Sasuke thing is one of the biggest black eyes on the manga. Simply because it completely contradicts itself and does everything it shouldn't do. I don't see how it could have been handled in a worse way. It had tremendous potential, but it got scraped.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    I agree with the first part, I stated the same thing; once he realized how far Itachi still was and that even Naruto was catching up, he started going down the wrong path.

    The second part is a difference in opinion, I suppose. I definitely couldn't see Naruto letting Sasuke kill someone, and considering that Kakashi wouldn't let Naruto-tachi see him give the finishing blow to Kakuzu (nor would he let Naruto and Sakura see him kill Sasuke), I can't imagine him letting Sasuke kill Itachi.

    As far as the training goes...Kakashi is a genius. He created Chidori before he even had the Sharingan. He's exceptionally gifted all-around. However, I can't really see him being a better teacher than Orochimaru. And considering the tools Orochimaru and Kabuto have access to, I can't see Kakashi making Sasuke stronger than Orochimaru did, especially since Sasuke can't use Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu. I also have to think that if Kakashi could've created Chidori Nagashi, etc., he would have done so already...at the very least, Chidori Nagashi and Chidori Eisou are useful techniques to have.
    Kakashi never refused Naruto the right, but Naruto looked to be tired and hurt and possibly unconcerned with Kakuzu. I mean, no one but Kakashi checked up on Kakuzu, which could imply that they thought Kakuzu was dead. The main reason why he didn't want to let Naruto and Sakura see him killing Sasuke was because of the bonds they had. Sakura and Naruto were Sasuke's friends and considered him very close.... Imagine you're a police and your son's friend started shooting you randomly. Would you want your son to see you kill his friend, and would you want your son to see his friend die?

    We saw Kakashi train Sasuke to use chidori and build up speed for chidori to achieve Rock Lee's speed in a month, whereas it took Rock Lee years of training to do that. While Kakashi alone can't make Sasuke stronger, I believe that the rivalry between Sasuke and Naruto could take both to an even higher level, as their rivalry during tree climbing exercise proved. Sasuke woudn't necessarily need tajuu kage bunshin, he has SHaringan and his ingenuity, and Kakashi isn't limited to just few things either.

    Did Kakashi even bother to create any variants of chidori though? As far as I deduce, chidori was only for assassination, in which he strengthened to the point that it became a raikiri, strong enough to cut through lightning. Sasuke probably created variants to help him fight better whereas Kakashi had jutsu and didn't need to think of other ways to fight better. Even Orochimaru didn't teach him the chidori variants, it was self-taught.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Kakashi never refused Naruto the right, but Naruto looked to be tired and hurt and possibly unconcerned with Kakuzu. I mean, no one but Kakashi checked up on Kakuzu, which could imply that they thought Kakuzu was dead. The main reason why he didn't want to let Naruto and Sakura see him killing Sasuke was because of the bonds they had. Sakura and Naruto were Sasuke's friends and considered him very close.... Imagine you're a police and your son's friend started shooting you randomly. Would you want your son to see you kill his friend, and would you want your son to see his friend die?
    I guess we just have different interpretations. Naruto thought he finished the job, and basically everyone else did as well until Kakashi noticed it and Yamato shooed the kids away. He could've easily let them see him finish Kakuzu if he wasn't worried about them being children, I would think. I don't think he wanted them to see the killing of someone.

    About the Sasuke thing...that's a valid argument, but why would he then let Sasuke kill his brother? Regardless of what Itachi had done, he was Sasuke's older brother. If the bonds between Naruto/Sakura and Sasuke made Kakashi not want Sakura and Naruto to see him kill Sasuke, why would he want to let Sasuke kill his older brother? He even attempts earlier to steer Sasuke's mind away from revenge, reminding him of the precious people in his life (I'm referring to when he tied Sasuke up in Part 1). And then, in Part 2, even after Sasuke has attacked the summit, killed his brother, etc., he still tries to get Sasuke to think of things other than revenge. I honestly can't see him letting Sasuke kill Itachi.

    Quote Quote:
    We saw Kakashi train Sasuke to use chidori and build up speed for chidori to achieve Rock Lee's speed in a month, whereas it took Rock Lee years of training to do that. While Kakashi alone can't make Sasuke stronger, I believe that the rivalry between Sasuke and Naruto could take both to an even higher level, as their rivalry during tree climbing exercise proved. Sasuke woudn't necessarily need tajuu kage bunshin, he has SHaringan and his ingenuity, and Kakashi isn't limited to just few things either.
    The thing is though, Sasuke was naturally better than Lee was. Whereas Lee needed years of training to get to that level, Sasuke was already pretty fast. His speed when using the Curse Seal was formidable, and even without it, he was one of the faster Genin. Lee was faster, but it obviously wasn't a level that Sasuke couldn't reach, like Gai or Raikage. While the rivalry between Sasuke and Naruto would undoubtedly make him grow faster, Kakashi wasn't on a level that would really help Sasuke. If anything, Kakashi needed training himself. It seems like he benefited a lot from the team breakup, seeing as he came with a brand-spanking new Mangekyou Sharingan as well as an increased chakra capacity (or at least ability to use his existing one). I think he could help Sasuke reach his level, but going past his level would have been the problem, and again, it would've been without training him in the use of the Curse Seal, which I thought was pretty essential. He also wouldn't have learned Orochimaru's Kawarimi tech, or had the White Snake's healing power. I think overall, going to Orochimaru was a much better option, considering Kakashi didn't even think he could compete with Orochimaru.


    Quote Quote:
    Did Kakashi even bother to create any variants of chidori though? As far as I deduce, chidori was only for assassination, in which he strengthened to the point that it became a raikiri, strong enough to cut through lightning. Sasuke probably created variants to help him fight better whereas Kakashi had jutsu and didn't need to think of other ways to fight better. Even Orochimaru didn't teach him the chidori variants, it was self-taught.
    Kakashi ended up creating that lightning dog technique, so I think he realized he would need more techniques. His Doton are supplementary/defensive, and Suiton doesn't seem like the most effective element to use in combat. I would think having more Raiton techs would be much more useful.

    And really, who is Kakashi assassinating, lol...it's a good technique for that, as shown against Kakuzu, but after he couldn't get through Haku to get to Zabuza, I would think that he would realize that he might need something more. I don't mean to say that Sasuke staying with Kakashi wouldn't have benefited Sasuke a bit, but I can't imagine it being better for him than going to Orochimaru. You're right that Orochimaru didn't seem to teach him Chidori Eisou at the least, but I can't imagine him learning literally nothing from Orochimaru.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    I read somewhere that in an interview or something kishi said that this was kakashi's year(meaning we're gonna get more kakashi screen time).Can anyone verify this? Maybe post a link of the interview or something? Thanks

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.11

    Quote Originally Posted by killbill View Post
    I read somewhere that in an interview or something kishi said that this was kakashi's year(meaning we're gonna get more kakashi screen time).Can anyone verify this? Maybe post a link of the interview or something? Thanks
    I don't know if that it true or not, i heard about it as well. But if it is true then it has probably already passed because that was said like a year ago. And this past year in Naruto certainly wasn't about Kakashi.

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