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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Fire is strong against wind, but weak against water
Lighting is strong against water, but weak against wind
That gonna make Naruto the perfect opposite from Sasuke, and balance their element power as well
1. No summons
2. No Assists of any kind
3. No Motivation or Plot Shields
Name Me that one Person
And Dont Say the First Hokage, Coz U dont know what went down :P.. Im Talking about A full fight
Edit: Neither Did Sasuke ar VOTE, CS isnt his born power
Sasuke, before Mangekyou Sharingan, can beat Deidara, but Naruto who fought Pain can't? GET REAL.
Sasori is a more tricky subject, due to the nature of his abilities, and the poison, but Naruto, just as he usually always does, will find a way to beat a seemingly more skilled opponent initially.
Kakuzu? It would be tough indeed, especially with his yet to be discovered secrets, but please don't underestimate Naruto, he's powerful, skilled, smart in combat, and has an amazing never give up attitude that is only a plus for him. He'd find a way to succeed. Also, as if people are forgetting, Kishi was essentially showing to us all, when Naruto defeated Kakuzu in his most powerful form as easily as he did that, as powerful as Kakuzu is, Naruto was just in another league.
It doesn't matter that Naruto wasn't there to help in discerning, or figuring out Kakuzu's abilities on his own. He would've managed to learned what they were before being completely defeated regardless.
Kabuto: Naruto, a much younger Naruto at that, basically defeated Kabuto with his rasengan, even though Naruto himself was going to die, and Kabuto was going to survive, but Naruto put a major hurting on him, one that left him unable to continue fighting. Kabuto is clearly of a much higher level now, but remember that Naruto is Kabuto's ultimate target, Sasuke he sees as a stop gap on the way to that goal. If you think Naruto can't beat Kabuto on his own, prepare to be shocked because Naruto, when put in the situation, has always found a way to win or compete on even footing with his opponent.
However, besides the Pain fight, and a few flashes here and there, we've yet to see what this new Naruto is completely made of, and he's now even stronger than he was when he fought Pain.
Pain should be on that list, too. Because, without knowing all his secrets, and without Naruto being a Jinchuuruki who Pain wouldn't kill, I don't think very many, if any, could beat Pain. He's seriously that powerful.
We must remember that Hanzou was a total beast. Taking on Jiraiya, Orichimaru, and Tsunade in their primes at exactly the same time, and it seemed to be easy for him. Pain killing someone like that can't be overlooked. He even made defeating Jiraiya, a more powerful and experienced Jiraiya than the one Hanzou defeated all those years ago, look like this effortless thing.
I think Kishi personally knows that Naruto couldn't beat such an opponent as Pain at that time, which is why he purposely set up the various circumstances to work out as they did, Pain being weakened, God Realm's power not being present, most of Pain's secrets being unraveled by the time Naruto met up with him, Pain not killing Naruto when he had the opportunity many times, Nagato showing signs of redemption, then ultimately Nagato turning to Naruto's side. Pain and Naruto had a battle, Nagato and Naruto avoided war, and made peace instead.
I mentioned it before, Chuunin exams and Sasuke retrival arc. Simple as that. A series of 1vs1 matches without any interference.
Also you have to differ between "not his given power" and "making it your power". Like Naruto letting Kyuubi take over to fight for him, or just tapping into his power to boost his own.
@SenninSage: SasukeFanboy's... sry, I mean RealTwisted's post was about Kabuto and his Edo Tensei. Of course Naruto now can woop ass any of them individually, but he probably wants to imply that Kabuto and his crew are just EMS fodder for super hero Sasuke.
Funny though, in the end Sasuke is gonna lose to Naruto anyway. Why even bother comparing these two...
Last edited by Paradoxicon; June 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM.
Look at it like this:
In the fight against Pain,the summons Bunta,Ken and Hiro were summoned by Shima,so they were actually help.If Naruto summoned them,it would've not been help.
Yeah people understand that "team work" is important and what not, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Very few people would have an issue with someone helping someone else once an ordeal has all but been clearly finished. Or even if someone comes in and completely stops a certain ordeal and it ends right then and there. But to constantly watch someone come in and walk Naruto through all of his difficult ordeals and then watch him overcome those obstacle without showing any significant personal growth that is derived from himself or his own personal conviction is at best rather annoying. Like it or not this is honestly one of the worst things that can be done for character development in any story. Naturally at some point people have to learn on their own whether it be good or bad.
We all wanted to see Naruto take down the Kyuubi on his own and do so buy using what he has learned on his own thus far. Thats how things are and should be done. It's just too bad that Naruto hasn't learned a whole heck of alot on his own. Someone has always been there to walk him through the tough times. But I mean who wants to watch someone struggle through 2/3 of an ordeal on their own and then have someone pop up and walk them through the last 1/3, and then keeping watching the same thing happen 10+ times? This has nothing to do with "Oh Naruto revolves around team-work so get over it and accept it". This has everything to do with proper story telling and natural character development. You just don't go against the grain, at least not if you know what you are doing.
* Sasuke got EMS simply by asking Madara to transplant Itachi's eyes. No development, no relation, nothing. Just a new power-up.
* Naruto got control on Kyuubi after fighting against his dark self, becoming a friend of Kirabi, fighting the bijuu itself (with help, because that's a benefit of love and friendship - care from the loved ones), seeing his mom and talking with her. He has a new power, he met his mother, he feels a little better (after the Dark Naruto stuff), and he has a friend in Kirabi.
Seriously, nitpick all you can. But Naruto is still way more developed than Sasuke, and I'm not talking about abilities at all.
Heh, I think Asher is the one with the literature in here, right? I just read this book called "Notre-Dame de Paris" which is basically the story of the hunchback from the Notre-Dame cathedral. The main character, a very believable and interesting one is Quasimodo, the hunchback himself. He is not beautiful, he is not rich, the leader of anyone. But he has the purest heart and he is very complex. Most of all, believable. That's what I personally want and like to see with Naruto. His fights were better than Sasuke's because he always got help, making the main character looking normal.
Do you guys really need chapter-by-chapter examples of why Naruto is focused on teamwork and friendship in general?
Read before posting. This has very little to do with fighting power and more so with personal character growth and maturity.Originally Posted by zerocooldx
And Naruto is well rounded? A childish character who couldn't lead people to water if he was in a boat or make difficult decisions without strong outside influence is indeed well rounded. Hell even Sakura at times has shown to possess more personal conviction then Naruto. By reading the comments of the last 2 weeks it seems that majority of the people are starting to read and post about the manga souly to see if Naruto can do anything new or on his own.
Really, I'm not talking out of my ass. You're comparing Oskar Schindler from Schindler's List (that would be Naruto) with John McClane from the Die Hard series (Sasuke), while claiming that the guy who kills everyone on his own is the developed one.
Fact: Since the first chapters, the author had an accent of team. Let me quote Kakashi (again):
Hurr durr, I kill people, because my hatred is power and I'm really angry for classic shinobi stuff that happened a decade ago.
The difference between Sasuke and Naruto in this case are the effects. Sasuke means something to nobody. Only Madara and Kabuto wants him, his eyes more exactly, and ninjas villages want him for execution. He isn't relevant to anything. His plot doesn't lead him to anything. Kishimoto invests in him just because he's very popular.
I mean, take a look at Naruto's side. There's Kisame hiding near Kirabi, a plot can easily be set about that. Sasuke is in Madara's hiding, recovering from the transplant. Madara will just teleport him in front of another enemy, where he will kill them with his newfound powers. That's all he ever has to do, be a power machine.
For god's sakes, Sakura is a medical ninja. Acting outside of her team is imbecility at its best! That's a downgrade of the character, not true development.
I mean, I can see Sasuke becoming that way, he was the "avenger" type from the whole beginning. But don't claim that Naruto needs to be lonely and powerful too.