Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (7/21/14 - 7/27/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 503 by kewl0210 , One Piece 753 by cnet128 , Bleach 589 (2)

View Poll Results: who wins?

Voters
143. You may not vote on this poll
  • Jiraiya wins

    92 64.34%
  • Sasuke wins

    47 32.87%
  • they both die

    4 2.80%
New Reply
Page 2 of 31 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 455

Thread: Jiraiya vs Sasuke

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nicholas.Sama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Where Hypocrisy Thrives
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    885
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    Itachi knew that he AND kisame combined didn't stand much of a chance against Jiraiya.

    Sasuke shows the potential to surpass Itachi (better control of amaterasu, but his genjutsu is nothing compared to tsukyomi and his susanoo isn't as great) but hasn't yet.

    Sorry. Jiraiya would win.
    Based off what I've seen...and who Itachi really was.
    Jiraiya would have gotten his ass kicked if they both decided to fight him.
    That statement should be discarded from all discussion.
    Last edited by Nicholas.Sama; June 29, 2010 at 10:37 PM.

  2. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    Itachi knew that he AND kisame combined didn't stand much of a chance against Jiraiya.

    Sasuke shows the potential to surpass Itachi (better control of amaterasu, but his genjutsu is nothing compared to tsukyomi and his susanoo isn't as great) but hasn't yet.

    Sorry. Jiraiya would win.
    Itachi's statement wasn't referring to himself and Kisame, it was referring to himself and Jiraiya. He was saying that if he and Jiraiya fought both him and Jiraiya would likely die.

  4. #18
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    It is impossible to troll Yondaime. Get over it.
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,820
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Itachi's statement wasn't referring to himself and Kisame, it was referring to himself and Jiraiya. He was saying that if he and Jiraiya fought both him and Jiraiya would likely die.
    This is not quite right, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gottheim
    Kisame: You should be able to take him down one one way or another, but I don't know how I'd fare.../We aren't in the same league.
    Itachi: Yeah...If we face him, the both of us might get killled./Or we'll pull off a mutual strike down if we do well./...Even coming in greater numbers might not make much of a change.
    Kisame: We thought we'd finally found him at the ramen shop... But his baby-sitter just had to be one of the Legendary Sannin./Even the names of Konoha's Uchiha clan and that of the Seven Shinobi Swordsmen of the Mist pale before an adversary like him.
    Itachi: True... But....
    Kisame: .......
    Itachi: No matter how strong someone is, they'll have some kind of weakness.... LINK
    Quote Originally Posted by NJT
    I don't know about me, but I'm pretty sure that you could have handled him.

    He's good. (lit would be he's a higher level then me)

    hmmm

    We would either both be killed or

    It would be a draw.


    It wouldn't matter if we went in with more people or not.


    We're lucky to have finally spotted him at the Ramen shop but

    His guard is one of the "legendary 3 ninja's."

    Having him as our opponet would make us look like nothing.
    hmmm, but....

    No matter how strong the opponet is there is a weak spot. LINK

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

  5. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  6. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nicholas.Sama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Where Hypocrisy Thrives
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    885
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    We should also remember that Itachi and Jiraiya were tied for strongest rated ninja in the last databook. They both scored a 35.

  7. #20
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,547
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    I think its 35.5

  8. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  9. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fighting for the Living
    Country
    The Wall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,812
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    If one can't understand the Itachi was clearly lying to hide his allegiances when he said what he did, then you seriously need help.

    I'm sorry, but Itachi and Kisame together would defeat damn near any single shinobi with the lone exception being Pain and even then you could make an argument for Itachi and Kisame.

    The only way he could have been telling the truth was if Kishi orginally wanted Jiraiya to be stronger than the two of them, or if Kisame and Itachi got THAT much stronger over 2.5 years. He was lying, it's just something that needs to be accepted.

    Remember, Itachi crippled Orochimaru with ease, the man Jiraiya could never defeat. Why would he fear Jiraiya, if he felt Orochimaru, the genius of the Sannin and the murderer of the God of Shinobi was beneith him?
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  10. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  11. #22
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Poke-france.
    Country
    United States
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    I would also point out that Sasuke and Itachi fight in much different ways and have different skill sets. Presuming that Itachi was telling the truth, That still doesn't necessarily mean that Sasuke couldn't do it.

  12. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    This is not quite right, sorry.
    I can't find the post, but Franckie said it was awkard wording and showed the Viz translation.

    This translation never implied Jiraiya was stronger: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/10/

  13. #24
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    LA
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Remember, Itachi crippled Orochimaru with ease, the man Jiraiya could never defeat. Why would he fear Jiraiya, if he felt Orochimaru, the genius of the Sannin and the murderer of the God of Shinobi was beneith him?
    You're overlooking one very important fact: Orichimaru didn't have Sage Mode. He would fear Jiraiya because he can fuse with Ma & Pa, use SM, and nullify any genjutsus used against him. Furthermore, he has good knowledge of how genjutsu works. Even if it's caused by MS, it still has to have fundamental similarities that make it effective (like the chakra flow control), which he has trained how to resist on his own. Tie that in with the SM fusion (which basically means that both Ma and Pa have a say in what goes on in his chakra network), and I have a hard time seeing how Itachi's arsenal of genjutsu could pose a threat to Jiraiya. Altering Jiraiya's perception of time seems out of the question while Jiraiya is in SM due to how it is difficult enough to execute it outside of tsukoyomi, let alone in regular battle. The great intricacy of the jutsu makes it impossible to execute while Jiraiya is in SM.
    Last edited by megadud20; June 30, 2010 at 01:23 AM.
    You are now inside my Tsukuyomi. For the next 72 hours... I will slap you with this trout...

  14. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  15. #25
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GomuGomu_Getsuga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    22
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    482
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    First off I would like to point out that Itachi is nowhere near as strong as most think. His only real arsenal was his Mangekyou, and now Sasuke's is much stronger. Sasuke's normal sharingan beat out his Tsukuyomi (period) and his Katon was greater. Not to mention the great stamina difference.

    Now if Current Sasuke and Jiraiya were to fight, they would both die. Sasuke can spam Suped-Up Mangekyou Jutsu forever. Or at least until he tires out. On the other hand there is no ninja that can fight Jiraiya and not be killed in the process. This has been both stated and shown.

  16. #26
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member hibar90's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    Indonesia
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Hmm I don't understand how SM makes someone immune to genjutsu. 1st if we look at naruto case it takes both sakura and chiyo to snap naruto out. And chiyo is probably a low s-rank shinobi. What I understand so far is there are ways to nullify genjutsu, but it depends how strong that genjutsu is. It's not like automatic immunity. It would be less effective, but it "can" still work. From sasuke and itachi fight both their genjutsu is almost impossible to notice when they are cast. The only way to fight them without getting caught is not to look from the start. Also, sasuke susano is an archer so it's a lot harder to run away from it compared to itachi from what we've seen. 2nd once you get caught by tsukuyomi it takes seconds to die. And as far as I know you can't get out of it. Genjutsu usually paralyze victims in shock, but tsukuyomi actually kills because it feels real and long. I'm not saying he will get hit, but sasuke arsenal seems a lot more deadlier than jiraiyas. However, sasuke emotion has become unstable IMO after getting MS. He no longer fight as smart as when he fought itachi. If sasuke would use his brain a little more and use his hate to drive him to win, I will give this fight to sasuke. Because at this stage he would do anything to win no matter what the consequence is.

    Besides I'm benching sasuke before he gets EMS. He should be much stronger with EMS. But, since I don't have evidence I wouldn't give anything more. 57/100 probability for sasuke.

    edit @gomugomu_getsuga: You're right, itachi was not as strong as he should. He was sick. But he's 10x a ninja sasuke is. His arsenal even after obtaining MS is not only hax jutsus, he efficiently use bunshin, kunai etc. 2nd tsukuyomi was suppose to be unbreakable. It was a weak explanation that "my hate overwhelmed you blah3x". But the the end it was explain itachi was a loving carring bear and he would have kill sasuke if he wanted too. So, I would argue he released sasuke from tsukuyomi just like always and the same way he did for kakashi. You are right though, sasuke has more stamina to a sick itachi as far as I know. And Oro fought with jiraiya and survived 2x. There was this cocky chuunin too that survived rasengan when they were looking for tsunade.
    Last edited by hibar90; June 30, 2010 at 02:08 AM.

  17. #27
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    LA
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by hibar90 View Post
    Hmm I don't understand how SM makes someone immune to genjutsu. 1st if we look at naruto case it takes both sakura and chiyo to snap naruto out. And chiyo is probably a low s-rank shinobi. What I understand so far is there are ways to nullify genjutsu, but it depends how strong that genjutsu is. It's not like automatic immunity. It would be less effective, but it "can" still work. From sasuke and itachi fight both their genjutsu is almost impossible to notice when they are cast. The only way to fight them without getting caught is not to look from the start.
    I see what you mean by saying that itachi's tsukoyomi is instant and can't be countered when you look at his eyes while you cast it, this has been proved without question in the manga. However, don't underestimate the greatness that is Sage Mode; especially while fused with Ma and Pa. Chiyo got rid of Naruto's Genjutsu by merely touching him while she was at a distance, now think of how much easier it is for Ma and Pa to get dispel JIRAIYA, when they're literally within continual touching distance since theyre stuck to his shoulders, while they control his chakra, AND while he's a sannin who has strenuously trained himself to be in sync with his partners. Also, SM is even greater than the caster. It's difficult to control, it senses great distances, it enhances your five senses to inhumane levels, and increases your field of contact with the world. It's crazy to think that a ranged doujutsu transmission can affect him when the caster doesn't even have any idea how SM works.
    Furthermore, yes it IS possible to have automatic immunity to genjutsu if you have a bijuu like Killerbee. Similar to SM, the host and the bijuu are part of the same chakra network. In fact, it's looking quite easy to break genjutsu by tapping to virtually ANY outside source at this rate now that even Sasuke was able to break Itachi's TSUKOYOMI by merely tapping into his curse seal as shown here and here. It's looking like anyone special is being immune to genjutsus left and right by tapping into an outside source. Few examples include and are not limited to: people with chakra-controlling allies, anyone with a bijuu, and sage mode users. Heck, even Raikage, and Deidara can resist genjutsu and they're not even special!

    Quote Originally Posted by hibar90 View Post
    Also, sasuke susano is an archer so it's a lot harder to run away from it compared to itachi from what we've seen... However, sasuke emotion has become unstable IMO after getting MS. He no longer fight as smart as when he fought itachi. If sasuke would use his brain a little more and use his hate to drive him to win, I will give this fight to sasuke. Because at this stage he would do anything to win no matter what the consequence is.
    Glad to see you understand that he is unstable. I'm not sure what you mean here because I'm a bit confused about your English syntax. In either case, saying that Sasuke's insanity is a strength is erroneous. That's exactly what will cause his own demise in a large part. Seeing Sasuke at the level he is now, it seems he can't defeat Jiraiya especially while he's likely to act in a reckless manner. Sure he has all those hax offensive MS techniques, but Jiraiya has so many defensive jutsus at his disposal (frog silhouettes, clones, hair shield, replacements, ect) not to mention he has fully mastered their timing and perfected them to every possible bit. (Due to his being a friggin Sannin and having all his battle experience) I wouldn't be surprised if out of 30 times Sasuke spammed his arrow, they all turned out to be replacements (a mere log, imagine how disappointing). Don't believe me? Even Itachi was fooled by Kakashi's clones when he executed them with perfect timing. So yes, by acting recklessly (mostly offensively and relying fully on his MS), he'll tire out long before Jiraiya does. What precious defense Sasuke can muster up with the use of that hax Susano and Amaterasu combo won't protect him from the likes of a frog song genjutsu or from a surprise attack from the back.

    I've already posted a long reply of how Jiraiya is 100% immune to Itachi's time control, so that's out of the question when Sasuke can even pull it off half as well as Itachi could (which is the only reason he was able Danzo in the end).

    The only one thing that looks promising is Sasuke's bird summons, but even still, frogs beats birds anyday, IMHO. Frogs can not only wield weapons, many are known to use ninjutsu, sage mode, and possess a very potent genjutsu with no known counter. We don't know how many birds Sasuke can have out at once or how many variations he can summon, while he know for sure Jiraiya can have several out at once with the help of the sage elder frogs. Sasuke would be wise (and quite lucky) to use the bird to flee the battle.

    Jiraiya has this battle won for sure.
    Last edited by megadud20; June 30, 2010 at 03:36 AM.
    You are now inside my Tsukuyomi. For the next 72 hours... I will slap you with this trout...

  18. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Sasuke is very strong and his genjutsu are good, but his genjutsu and taijutsu is inferior to that of Itachi, his general ninjutsu surpass Itachi due to the fact that sasuke is a ninjutsu type and Itachi a genjutsu type. Sasuke his genjutsu abilities are very good but against 3 opponents backing eshoulder up its impossible to perform a genjutsu long enough to make it any effect. when ma and pa fuse with jirayji they fuse themselves with chakra spots in his shoulder which lead directly to the center of the bodies chakra control. Sage mode is continuesly kept at the max capacity through the chakra gathering of ma and pa so even if they need to stop for a time to break the genjutsu sage mode isn't canceld.
    The only real dangerous jutsu sasuke has that will pose a problem for jiraiya is AM and sussano, however sussano has it costs, if sasuke keeps up sussano for long periods of time it will drain his chakra and life force at a exceptional fast rate and he knows that. Sasuke can resort to spamming AM which would put jiraiya in a dangerous situation since the fire can not be extinquished.
    Sasuke using summoning is useles considering the toads jiraiya can summon being ma, pa and gamabunta and the other 2 huge frogs.
    Considering everyhting I give this fight to jiraiya, based on his wide arsenal of jutsu and mastery of it, Itachi not wanting to engage a fight with him, Pain admitting that jiraiya was stronger them him but failed because of lack of knowledge (even considering it was 6 against 1).

  19. Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked this post
  20. #29
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Poke-france.
    Country
    United States
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by hibar90 View Post
    However, sasuke emotion has become unstable IMO after getting MS. He no longer fight as smart as when he fought itachi. If sasuke would use his brain a little more and use his hate to drive him to win, I will give this fight to sasuke. Because at this stage he would do anything to win no matter what the consequence is.
    What do you mean? Sasuke fought quite intelligently against Danzo, Not only testing to see if his Tsukuyomi would work but also observing how Danzo acted in order to learn his technique. I don't see why Sasuke wouldn't do the same against Jiraiya.

    Quote Originally Posted by hibar90 View Post
    2nd tsukuyomi was suppose to be unbreakable. It was a weak explanation that "my hate overwhelmed you blah3x". But the the end it was explain itachi was a loving carring bear and he would have kill sasuke if he wanted too. So, I would argue he released sasuke from tsukuyomi just like always and the same way he did for kakashi. You are right though, sasuke has more stamina to a sick itachi as far as I know. And Oro fought with jiraiya and survived 2x. There was this cocky chuunin too that survived rasengan when they were looking for tsunade.
    I don't see what's strange about Sasuke being able to break it. It was stated early in the series that Tsukuyomi could be broken by a Sharingan user who shared the same blood. Anyway, Sasuke was shown to break it, Thus causing Itachi mental damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by megadud20 View Post
    I see what you mean by saying that itachi's tsukoyomi is instant and can't be countered when you look at his eyes while you cast it, this has been proved without question in the manga. However, don't underestimate the greatness that is Sage Mode; especially while fused with Ma and Pa. Chiyo got rid of Naruto's Genjutsu by merely touching him while she was at a distance, now think of how much easier it is for Ma and Pa to get dispel JIRAIYA, when they're literally within continual touching distance since theyre stuck to his shoulders, while they control his chakra, AND while he's a sannin who has strenuously trained himself to be in sync with his partners. Also, SM is even greater than the caster. It's difficult to control, it senses great distances, it enhances your five senses to inhumane levels, and increases your field of contact with the world. It's crazy to think that a ranged doujutsu transmission can affect him when the caster doesn't even have any idea how SM works.
    But the genjutsu Naruto was in didn't do the type of mental damage Tsukuyomi does. And that's not taking into account the idea that Sasuke's Tsukuyomi can blend into the real world good enough that he wouldn't even know he's in the illusion til it's too late. Or a better idea would be for Sasuke to target Ma and Pa, Taking them out and messing up Sage Mode for Jiraiya. Considering Sage Mode enhances the user's own ability, The genjutsu should affect them similar to how it would affect them in their base form.

    Quote Originally Posted by megadud20 View Post
    Furthermore, yes it IS possible to have automatic immunity to genjutsu if you have a bijuu like Killerbee. Similar to SM, the host and the bijuu are part of the same chakra network. In fact, it's looking quite easy to break genjutsu by tapping to virtually ANY outside source at this rate now that even Sasuke was able to break Itachi's TSUKOYOMI by merely tapping into his curse seal as shown here and here. It's looking like anyone special is being immune to genjutsus left and right by tapping into an outside source. Few examples include and are not limited to: people with chakra-controlling allies, anyone with a bijuu, and sage mode users. Heck, even Raikage, and Deidara can resist genjutsu and they're not even special!
    Kirabi still got stuck down by Sasuke's illusion and wasn't automatically released from it. Had Sasuke stuck at the moment Kirabi fell instead of relaxing, Kirabi would have probably been hurt badly. Sasuke broke Tsukuyomi because he had the sharingan, Which basically amps up the user's genjutsu skills. Aside from Sasuke, No other character has shown the ability to counter Tsukuyomi right away. They still suffer the effects of it. And Ee didn't resist a genjutsu but avoid it and Deidara still got taken by a genjutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by megadud20 View Post
    That's why seeing Sasuke at the level he is now, it seems he can't defeat Jiraiya especially while he's likely to act in a reckless manner. Sure he has all those hax offensive MS techniques, but Jiraiya has so many defensive jutsus at his disposal (frog silhouettes, clones, hair shield, replacements, ect) not to mention he has fully mastered their timing and perfected them to every possible bit. (Due to his being a friggin Sannin and having all his battle experience) I wouldn't be surprised if out of 30 times Sasuke spammed his arrow, they all turned out to be replacements (a mere log, imagine how disappointing). Don't believe me? Even Itachi was fooled by Kakashi's clones when he executed them with perfect timing. So yes, by acting recklessly (mostly offensively and relying fully on his MS), he'll tire out long before Jiraiya does.
    The opposite has been shown. Sasuke's been able to act in a reckless manner while still maintaining his intelligence. I honestly doubt that the Sharingan would be fooled by a replacement technique considering it sees chakra and reads movement. Plus, Sasuke has shown to favor using his Chidori sword over his MS.

  21. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: JIRAIYA VS SASUKE

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The opposite has been shown. Sasuke's been able to act in a reckless manner while still maintaining his intelligence. I honestly doubt that the Sharingan would be fooled by a replacement technique considering it sees chakra and reads movement. Plus, Sasuke has shown to favor using his Chidori sword over his MS.
    Kage bunshin are exact copies of the user with the chakra evenly devided among the clones, it is noted that not even the sharingan can see if its the clone or the real body (water Bunshin are the same since Itachi failed to see it was a water bunshin before it was to late).
    replacement technique can be used against anyone even against the byakugan who has the greatest insight of the 3 great doujutsu. Neji failed to see that naruto used replacement jutsu in order to dig underground and beat neji, so I doubt the sharingan with inferior insight would be able to do the same.

New Reply
Page 2 of 31 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts