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Thread: Is Mana the earl?

  1. #121
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    The reason I ask is because at first glance, this is just something I see as an common aspect of the (suited) Earl's character design. I want to know why it should belong in this thread. Also, this is a theory thread. I'd like to know what people's Mana/Earl-related theories are.

  2. #122
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Quote Originally Posted by kannazuki View Post
    The reason I ask is because at first glance, this is just something I see as an common aspect of the (suited) Earl's character design. I want to know why it should belong in this thread. Also, this is a theory thread. I'd like to know what people's Mana/Earl-related theories are.
    Yea but theories need more then just 1 element in it. At least something its heading for, a point A and B. It shouldnt be aimless. Because if its aimless it becomes more like a fanfic. Thats something i always watch out for.

    The noahs each have their own design but the earl is the only one that has something like this suit thing. We see all the noah have their stigmata and their grey color along with the longevity. They are all trademarks. What can be said is that even the 14th noah belongs to that catagory. He isnt any different. The only one that stands out is the earl. He wears that suit almost all the time, and his regular form as Adam. Or so he calls himself, is just for show to the outside world. And we never see him like that with the exorcists.
    Its hard to say if this is part of his insanity, or if its deliberate. When hes facing Nea he starts going more crazy the eyes popping etc. And even losing his form revealing his true self when reaching for Nea. Its not like those ribbon hands add anything extra or take away. Ofc they could have a meaning but for now unless there is a goal to reach its not anything to worry about.

    For instance the crystal form and the search for the heart were debated and said to be possibly linked. Thats a theory. Or how Kanda was looking for that woman, and Alma looked like the girl. (loved it since i well i proved it before it was canon haha). What im saying is that you need something more then just some ribbon hands.

  3. #123
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    That's why I'm asking for someone to flesh it out. I'm not making a new theory. My theory's already above and it's about as detailed as it gets.

  4. #124
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    about post #118:

    The Earl from the flashback literally have the same clothes (even the hat) with the Earl that Allen met since chapter 216, except for the sleeves. And according to how it flew with the wind, it's pretty much save to say there was nothing inside the sleeve, in other words, it's like in chapter 117, which was an illusion. This leads me to a question: If the Earl appeared from flashback was also an illusion/hallucation, then whose memory was shown to Allen/Nea, aside from another person who happened to be Mana?

    Another thing from chapter 117: It's not only Nea that within Allen, but also the only thing left of Mana: the cursed on Allen's left eye and it got stronger as time passes by. So the hallucation that Road received could also because of the curse, combined with the existence of Nea inside Allen, and Crown Clown.

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  6. #125
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Looking back through the Earl's appearances again, I was wrong, he normally has gloved hands showing in the chapters in which he appears. I suppose I'll get ridiculed for this by some, but I'm going to take this as a suggestion from within the text (especially with the way Road sees CC's wrapping behaviour around Allen's arm along with the new sword, which spark such a vivid flashback for her in 117 that she has to shake her head vigorously to bring herself back to the present) that the suit could in fact be empty both in 117 and in 218's flashback, while in the present day portion of 218, it's because the suit and the man inside the suit are not acting in concert anymore.
    Last edited by kannazuki; December 28, 2013 at 05:33 PM.

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  8. #126
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alert View Post
    I know this is old, but this is what I thought when I read the manga. Sometime when people translate it's hard to really read the actual meaning, and as I said, every post is their opinion.
    Mana was indeed a Noah, and was also a fake father of Allen. The person in Allen was suppose to be the next king or something, but he ran away. The Earl knows a lot about Mana and the other boy of Allen. Allen is supposedly be the 14th Noah. His real family is a mystery and most likely Allen is the humanoid form of the 14th. As I watch or read the manga/anime, it shows that Allen only remembers the night of his abandonment and the kill of Mana; anything beyond who he was or where he came from was a mystery. I think that the 14th is Allen and that he sealed his memory.
    But which Noah was Mana? There are only 14 Noah that we know of, which Noah was Mana? Yes he does look like a Noah, and why wouldn't he be if his brother Neah was one. I just find it odd that somehow Allen was alive long ago, made a deal with Neah that he'd become the future 14th Noah and then somehow he got younger along the way and also came into contact with innocence and forgot about him being alive during the first Great War?

    And what about Cross? He can't be dead. He's the master of disappearing, he also has his parasitic type innocence Grave of Maria with him. I think she helped him Escape.

    We also still don't know who the heart of innocence is. Obviously it's someone who knows Allen, because it sent Apocrypho's after him.

    I don't think the Earl is Mana because in the end of chapter 218 he's saying that Allen is Mana. I know this might sound crazy but what if there was a there was a third brother. Mana, Neah and whoever the Earl is. Maybe he killed their mother because she paid so much attention to Mana, who had a sickness when he was little. Or maybe the Earl was their father? But still I don't know how Allen comes into this all. And if Cross was alive back then how come he also seems young.

    And we can't forget about Lavi and Bookman who are still stuck in the Ark with the Noah. Why doesn't Bookman come out and say what's going on, he has to know. And about how road has disappeared and has yet to reappear. And Chaoji still has that one Noah's hooks in him.

    I'm just so confused as to what's going on and what's going to happen. So many things are happening in the last few chapters. When the heck is Hoshino going to put us out of our misery and finish D.Gray-Man for us! It's been a little more than a year and a month since chapter 218's release where is chapter 219? Obviously her hand is fine since she just did some drawings for the anime Valrave the Liberator.
    Last edited by DGrayManLover; January 27, 2014 at 12:11 AM.

  9. #127
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Quote Quote:
    I don't think the Earl is Mana because in the end of chapter 218 he's saying that Allen is Mana.
    The Earl was insane back there and he thought Johnny was Mana, and Allen was Nea.

    Quote Quote:
    I know this might sound crazy but what if there was a there was a third brother. Mana, Neah and whoever the Earl is
    The Earl has returned and had war with humanity (Black Order) for 100 years. Meanwhile, Mana and Nea was born sometime 50 years ago (I think 52 years, since 'something' happened to Mana when he is 17 which led him went insane, most likely Nea's death 35 years ago).

    Quote Quote:
    And if Cross was alive back then how come he also seems young.
    Magic.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm just so confused as to what's going on and what's going to happen. So many things are happening in the last few chapters. When the heck is Hoshino going to put us out of our misery and finish D.Gray-Man for us! It's been a little more than a year and a month since chapter 218's release where is chapter 219? Obviously her hand is fine since she just did some drawings for the anime Valrave the Liberator.
    This is off-topic. Well, accroding to how Hoshino did those designs, it's most likely the sketches were done somewhere around 2011-2012 (Valvrave project wasn't planned until 2011). And things that make her go hiatus only happened in 2013's January (JumpSQ still announced DGM being continued in 2013's March issue). I think she gets a bit better after that because all of her works for both DGM volume 24 and Valvrave are insanely good, but if the hospital (or someone responsible to take care of her illness) says no to the serialization, which clearly takes a certain damages to health no matter how you do it, then we will have to wait a little longer.
    Last edited by non-chan; January 27, 2014 at 05:02 AM.

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  11. #128
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Just added some overdue stuff to this post. ^_^;

    ---------- Post added March 02, 2014 at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was February 27, 2014 at 08:28 PM ----------

    A "common refutations" section has now been added too!

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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Really like where this theory is going. I'm especially buying the whole bit about the Earl and his fat suit being a mirror of Allen's relationship with crown clown and Nea.I think you really sold it with the "mad puppet" quote from Nea and the whole reference back to the long sleeved Earl and the scene we saw in 218 where nea was looming over Mana and Rhode.The point that I really bought the most is probably your explanation of Earl's strange but frequent personality fluctuations, especially in chapter 218. The only thing that has me on the fence is probably the whole issue of where does Mana end and where the Earl begins in terms of how lasting the fat suit's assumed influence has on the man it possesses. In other words: without the fat suit on where is he in terms of personality? Is he more on the side of Mana, the unfortunate youth who was cursed to become the Earl or is he more on the side of the EVIL OVERLORD OF MILLENIUM. We see where even Tyki questions the Earl's state of mind when he sees him receiving a rose from a flower girl. Aside from that though, honestly I think you really stumbled onto something here, because at this point I really can't imagine Hoshino giving a plausible explanation outside most of what you've deciphered thus far.

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  14. #130
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Now adding a quote I've been puzzling over for a while now...

    I'll put the quote here so you don't have to go back.

    From CharaGray, as translated by verduister:
    Quote Quote:
    1st disciple of the Noah Family
    Millennium Earl

    KATSURA MEMO:
    I already decided on what the Millennium Earl’s human face would look like before the series started running. That’s why I’m happy that I finally got to show his face. I remember creating him after thinking that having a tired older man as the final boss would be interesting considering grief is one of d.gray-man’s themes. I modelled his face after the editor of the JUMP J-books editorial department. My taste is completely reflected. I have something to say because people often have the wrong idea: while the Earl’s human version has a sweet tooth, he’s not fat...! He’s not overweight!! I want to make that perfectly clear (laughs). I’ll reveal the secret of his outward appearance later down the story. I can’t say much yet, but that plumpness is very important (laughs).
    (emphasis mine)

    It seems at the very least, the suit itself is important to the story. I also think it's interesting that she had the Earl's *human* face worked out before the story started, and that the appearance of an old man relates to a central theme of grief. So the Earl has to be wracked with grief.

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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Ahhhhhh! You just gave me a brainwave I must share. Perhaps the earl suit is actually powered by the emotions of a grieving soul just like the akuma. After all the Earl did say in 189 that the akuma are his "hands and feet" so maybe they are designed in a similar fashion? If that's true then it would have been necessary for the earl to cause a tragedy/source of grief for mana. Maybe this is why he killed their mother? Maybe mana was resisting the control of the earl suit thus leading to the earl killing his mother as a new source of grief. This might be the reason he says it was 'Mana's fault' that he 'brought on the tragedy'. Also in Lost Fragments of Snow clown Mana says to Red that tragedy attracts the earl which is why he's always acting happy (to the point of seeming unstable to Red). Further, when red has had enough of Mana's behavior (when mana wants to prevent tragedy to the point of protecting cosimo - the dog-killing sleeze), and red then hits him with the innocence arm - not only is there a reaction upon contact (Noah memory awakening because of its eternal hatred of innocence - much like how the 14ths memory is awoken in Allen) but he also smiles and giggles with the earl suit appearing not long after that. Sounds to me like red probably woke up the earl by accident. Speaking of which, why was the earl sleeping and mana put back in control of his body at that time? Mana in the dog burial scene says that all of his tears had dried up so perhaps the tragedy of NEA dying was so horrifying that it numbed his emotions to the point that the earl no longer had a power source to draw from. There are probably lots of other details in the mix but for now this is my head-canon haha. Thoughts??

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  18. #132
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennjenn View Post
    Sounds to me like red probably woke up the earl by accident.
    I also think that's what was going on there. I see Mana's reaction to Innocence in the novel as probably being the same kind of reaction we saw with Skinn (Ark), Tyki (Ark), and Allen (North American Branch).

    Quote Quote:
    Speaking of which, why was the earl sleeping and mana put back in control of his body at that time? Mana in the dog burial scene says that all of his tears had dried up so perhaps the tragedy of NEA dying was so horrifying that it numbed his emotions to the point that the earl no longer had a power source to draw from. There are probably lots of other details in the mix but for now this is my head-canon haha. Thoughts??
    My thoughts on this tend to centre around the fact that Cross was there. I think Cross (temporarily) fought the Earl's suit off somehow (after letting Red go). After all, we know from the Ark arc that Cross and the Earl had fought before.

    ---------- Post added March 06, 2014 at 07:59 AM ---------- Previous post was March 05, 2014 at 04:59 PM ----------

    jennjenn, I really liked what you said and I was thinking some more about it, and it occurred to me maybe Mana's kind, "pure" nature is exactly what the problem was for the Earl in the first place. (Because let's face it, what else could such a sweet, yet frail young man do to the Earl of the Millennium? I think everyone assumes he stole the 14th away but we still don't have an explanation for why there's even a 14th Noah at all...) So when Allen and him became like father and son (and he probably unconsciously sensed his brother's presence within Allen), the Earl might not have been able to do anything because all the grief/guilt was so far from Mana's mind for at least those two years.
    Last edited by kannazuki; March 05, 2014 at 06:02 PM.

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  20. #133
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner anyoneforthe's Avatar
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Here is an observation:

    Mana met current!Allen while grieving the death of his dog, whose name is Allen.

    Allen meets the Earl while grieving the death of Mana, who looks a lot like the Earl.

    There is a kind of cycle in that.

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  22. #134
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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    jennjenn's theory makes me recall the Noah's ark arc when Allen attacks the Earl out of rage and Cross actually has to pull Allen back whilst telling him that he cannot fight the Earl whilst angry. This just makes me think that maybe the Earl isn't just attracted to tragedy, maybe it also gives him physical power. My god this is all making too much sense, I almost feel as if i'm reading spoilers to the story that don't even exist yet Lol., which is funny because usually i'm not interrested in many D gray man theory related threads because they usually end up sounding like fan fiction. But now I am really afraid that i'm spoiling myself somehow

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    Re: Is Mana the earl?

    Quote Quote:
    Mana met current!Allen while grieving the death of his dog, whose name is Allen.

    Allen meets the Earl while grieving the death of Mana, who looks a lot like the Earl.

    There is a kind of cycle in that.
    First of all, it's pretty awesome that you picked up on this I never noticed it at all before!

    Hoshino is constantly forshadowing later events in her current story arcs so this observation makes me think that she's also giving us subtle hints about the events in D.gray-man that happened before the story as well. For example the whole Kanda and Alma arc to me seems like it may have certain similarities with the story of mana and nea. I'm just thinking of how their brains were transplanted into new bodies and how that strange experience is eerily similar to the puppet motif going on between the earl and Allen (seeing as they are MAYBE in some sense Mana and Nea on the inside because of some sort of soul transplant - again, head-canon alert). SO what im trying to say in all this is that i like the idea of this all being a repeating CYCLE that will keep on going for eternity, like the holy war, like the cycle of rebirth and destruction gaaah!! ------> Also MOON CYCLES (we can't deny Hoshino has an obsession with them, they are everywhere in D.gray-man!!!! It's probably the real reason Hoshino always has her stories take place at "Night"

    Quote Quote:
    when Allen attacks the Earl out of rage and Cross actually has to pull Allen back whilst telling him that he cannot fight the Earl whilst angry. This just makes me think that maybe the Earl isn't just attracted to tragedy, maybe it also gives him physical power.
    I could agree with that. I mean the glee on his face when he see's allen that angry is downright creeeepy. He's a little tooo happy about it.

    Anyway I also wanted to add on another example to lend strength to my previous post. In the scene where he's in human form and walking up to the North American Branch he has a "sad" moment where he starts crying a little (then subsequently transforms into the earl):




    And in this scene: the human inside is obviously in anguish and the earl subsequently is going NUTS.

    Seems like just the act of crying is enough to give the earl a power boost (maybe).

    ---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

    Oops! The image button did not work for me :P anyway its chapter 188 pages 16 and 18. The third image is from chapter 218 page 10. Gomenasai!

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