Madara/Tobi Identity & Mega Convo Thread

[e-dog]

I want to keep the whole "Madara-Factor" out of this, concentrate purely on Tobi & Obito and I will also try to keep it short and simple like most of you would appreciate.

Other than the obvious similarities like T.O.B.I.(1.2.3.4.) and O.B.I.T.O(2.3.4.1.2), them having the same hair, the 1 sharingan thing- I think there is another strong similarity/clue.
To me, It seems like Tobi's Space-Time jutsu is an advanced version of Kakashi's MS Jutsu (Kamui or whatever it's called)
Tobi is not only able to suck himself into another dimension, but also other people(Like sucking Sasuke & Co. in, before the Sasuke vs Danzou fight).

Let's assume Tobi is (at least in some form) Obito.
Wouldn't it make sense that Kakashi's MS jutsu(s) would be the same as Obito's since Kakashi has Obito's sharingan?
Would this not explain the similarity of Tobi's(Obito) Space-Time jutsu and Kakashi's?
Let's also not forget that the other MS users (Ita and Sasu) have not shown this Space-Time jutsu (yet).
Also, it's still a mystery how Kakashi gained his MS.
Could that not be explained by Obito(Tobi) gaining the MS, which also would activate his other MS in Kakashi?
And finally, would it not explain Databook "anomalies" (Click"spoiler" and compare.)
These are both from DB3 if I am not mistaking:
Madara:

Uchiha Madara

Ninja registration number: ---
Birthday date: Dec. 24 (situation unknown; Capricorn)
Height: ? Weight: ? Blood type: ?
Personality: belligerent, ambitious
Favorite food: inarizushi (sushi wrapped in fried tofu)
Least favorite food: shirasu (young sardins)
Desired opponent: Konohagakure's top brass
Favorite word: "Total smackdown."
Hobby: falconry

Tobi-Kun

Tobi

Ninja registration number: ?
Birthday date:
Height: 175 cm Weight: 55.9 kg Blood type: ?
Personality: frivilous, over-enthusiastic (?)
Favorite food: ?
Least favorite food: ?
Desired opponent: ?
Favorite words: "Secret." (?)
Hobby: hangin' 'round with Deidara-senpai (?)

Why would Madara and Tobi get 2 different entries, and 2 different sets of information?


IT--

[M3J]

Does Obito have an entry?

If Obito is Tobi, then how can you explain the growth stunt when Obito is supposed to be dead?

[Delbi]

Biggest problem I have is this.

Kakashi and Tobi's MS powers are near identical. Only difference is, Kakashi uses it to open wormholes away from himself, while Tobi makes them near himself.

It seems odd to be, that two different MS eyes would yield such similar results.

Tsyukiyomi and Ameratsu are extemely different and each comes from a different eye.

Kakashi and Tobi's techniques come from different eyes, but are incredibly similar.

[Bonfire01]

Biggest problem I have is this.

Kakashi and Tobi's MS powers are near identical. Only difference is, Kakashi uses it to open wormholes away from himself, while Tobi makes them near himself.

It seems odd to be, that two different MS eyes would yield such similar results.

Tsyukiyomi and Ameratsu are extemely different and each comes from a different eye.

Kakashi and Tobi's techniques come from different eyes, but are incredibly similar.

Except for one little thing.... Tobi uses his space time jutsu without using MS. ALL we ever see is him using the 3 tomi sharingan. For all we know Tobi's space time jutsu might have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with his sharingan at all. There is certainly no evidence that it is an MS power as it stands, we are just assuming it is.

I also don't see how Obito would have managed to control the 9 tails way back when it attacked Konaha. The 4th confirmed that the masked guy in Akatsuki (complete with picture of Tobi) both controlled the 9 tails and outsmarted him. The idea of Obito controlling the 9 tails is ridiculous enough but him seeing through everything the 4th attempted? That's beyond silly.

Also.... just on the idea that Tobi = Obito.... wouldn't it seem just a little bit strange that he hasn't had ANY interest in kakashi or had ANYTHING special to say to Kakashi? Not even something a little mysterious or coded that Kishi could relate back to in a flashback when his identity is revealed?

If Tobi is Obito then it has been monumentally badly written....

[Xiraiya]

That time of the week again is it? very well... read on, Obito fans.

OBITO = TOBI

Ah this old beaten horse that died a millennium ago.

I have always and WILL always refuse Tobi = Obito as a legitimate theory.
Why? for starters Madara being alive is only a shock because he was beaten to within an inch of his life, there are any number of reasons he survived, sheer luck, Hashirama sparing him for whatever reason (Their rivarly was much like Naruto & Sasuke's) and others I don't care to list.

Their fight happened 80 years ago, and Madara was quite young in those times, so him being about 95-105 years old isn't so insane when we saw Sandaime fight off Orochimaru as an old man as well.

The other thing is, we've already seen enough of his face to know that HE IS AN OLD MAN, Obito would only be about 29-30 in present day (Same age as Kakashi) which if you can recall is not old at all.

The other thing is, the eye well personally I have no real way to explain that but I find the whole "Unique" thing with MS jutsus to be BS and anyone with MS can probably learn other MS techniques one way or another so whatever.

That and Itachi's words that EVERYONE can't seem to remember despite their importance.

"Madara is alive and well, as are his EYES and THEIR Power"

Now I do recall plurals mean "more than one" so I have no idea what's up with the mask, his face could just be damaged who knows we already know Madara said he isn't what he use to be.

And Itachi did Say "He is a Shell of his former self".

I'm not going to even bother bringing up the fact he didn't flinch or even recognize Kakashi in the slightest when they met... too late.

And there is also the fact Minato specifically indicated he fought Madara on the night of the Kyuubi attack, wut? Obito died and gained the power to summon Kyuubi in like a year? no that's just nonsense in my mind.

Then there is the fact he spoke of the entire Uchiha history, Rikudo and the Senju etc. His past with Izuna etc.

Because Obito..err I mean Madara would know this information from a first person perspective right?

There's other things I've been meaning to mention that go against Obito but I forgot them in amongst all the other overwhelming theory killing evidence sadly.

[3c]

I'm going to build a little further on Xiraiya's post.

Regarding Madara's current face. No, his wrinkles are not scars, they are wrinkles, and this can be proven by looking at Kishi's art. Examples of Scars is Kakashi's scar and Danzou's cheek scar. As you can see scars are drawn with white inside of surrounding black lines. This style is pretty common in most mangas. So there is no way Madara's face is scarred, it's wrinkles as there's clearly single lines suggesting a wrinkled face. With other words it's the face of an old man. This fact alone pretty much destroys the whole Obito theory as there's no way Obito's face would look like a 90 year old man at an age of 29-30. Look at Jiraiya, he had zero wrinkles and he was 53, in Naruto characters get wrinkles at a very old age. Look at the elders. They're roughly 72 now and have almost zero wrinkles. With other words, Madara's face is a face of a very old man.

Then we have another point about Minato having fought Madara. Do people seriously believe Minato fought a short kid wearing a mask and spamming a Nine-Tailed Fox? Minato would be a fool to leave out this information when meeting Naruto. This is just a minor point though, Xiraiya pretty much covered all the important facts.

[Truefan21]

I would think that Madara and Tobi have different profile in the databook because, kishi wants to drag out madara's identity as long as possible.

[Lord Abortion]

It's possible that what Madara is doing is a very, very advanced form of some sort of base ability that all the sharingans share. One of the translations from the third data book in reference to Kamui says "Kakashi's original doujutsu, released from the "Mangekyou Sharingan". It allows one to transfer anything to another dimension. If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked." as well as "There is no technique that can compete against this one. It's a dreadful technique that, with skilled use, can even pull an entire human being into another dimension".

It's possible that all eye techniques of the Uchiha can be used to varying degrees depending on the person, kamui along with Madaras technique would then be a technique performed by a non uchiha who requires the use of the mangekyou and a very strong uchiha that can use the base level of the sharingan and to much greater ability.

There are some instances through the series that would support this. Sasuke has shown finer skilled abilities with using amaterasu than Itachi had shown. Itachi has shown very refined genjutsu abilities, not just with what someone sees but with the time they feel they are trapped as well as the ability to cast from his finger. Madara was said to have control of the fox, Sasuke had controlled Manda. Shisui could control people, which in terms of control might be harder than controlling an animal, but also had the ability to do it without direct eye contact.

[Fayte]

Tobi is actually Konohamaru in the future. Konohamaru takes Kakashi's sharingan after he dies in his battle with his future self. Then his future self learned a time/space jutsu to travel back in time. So Konohamaru was able to think up the whole Tobi disguise (remember how he always tried to hide himself from Naruto using disguises) and plant himself as a new person in the past so he can finally use his newly discovered power to defeat his arch enemy, Naruto, and gain the title of Hokage.

You can thank me later.

[niblack89]

great theory and Minato is the secret secret leader of Akatskui. Naw but I need to know what weed you be smokin cause I need to get that high to come out with things like that.

Has more to be Tobi than Konohamaru he was in the elders squad, Tobi seems to be old and this guy knew Madara. That's my theory

[Galbert-Kun]

Fayte be on that perp.

Kagami? I wish he had another line or two, but nope.

[Exodi]

Best. Theory. Ever.

It all makes SO much sense. I wish I had your genius.

[OutOfTheBlue]

Tobi is actually Konohamaru in the future. Konohamaru takes Kakashi's sharingan after he dies in his battle with his future self. Then his future self learned a time/space jutsu to travel back in time. So Konohamaru was able to think up the whole Tobi disguise (remember how he always tried to hide himself from Naruto using disguises) and plant himself as a new person in the past so he can finally use his newly discovered power to defeat his arch enemy, Naruto, and gain the title of Hokage.

You can thank me later.

Your theory is by far the worst i've seen but quite creative.There was no sign whatsoever that "Tobi" had interest in the title of being the hokage. And konohamaru going that far to gain the title as a hokage is absurd.

You wanna know who the "real" tobi is? Get to know Zetsu first and you may get the answer.

[Xiraiya]

It's merely troll bait, avoid feeding. Either way I'm pretty damn sure He's just Madara, if not then he's the closest thing to it, Izuna.

[shaheer]

hmm very much possible but you forgot the most crucial part there was no R sage to begin with. Naruto used that same time transferring jutsu with the help of sharingan that he got(will get) from saske and went back to seal the Jubi and became known as the Ricudou sage .. and the 2 sons are from naruto and orihime (who traveled through manga to reach there and seduce naruto) ...makes sense?

Edit and the explanation for the 6 path is all of the ppl from narutos belly became a path..ie 6
Minato, Kushina, Itachi, Jiraya, Mashashi Kishimoto, Clive Barker