Madara/Tobi Identity & Mega Convo Thread

[zimbardo]

If you look at chapter 399 when Tobi told Sasuke that Izuna willingly gave this eyes to Madara. Tobi showed obvious emotion there as if he was either Izuna or Madara. I personally dislike the idea of Tobi is Madara. I think it is much cooler plot if Madara actually revived his brother before he died. Izuna was as good as Madara before his eyes were taken.

I agree that having Tobi as Izuna would be far superior. This would also explain how (although Madara thinks Tobi is following his plans) Tobi is instead planning something different from what Madara thinks he is, and may not be working towards the same end goal. Perhaps, if Tobi is Izuna, he didn't give his eyes willingly and therefore still holds a grudge. However knowing Madara is more powerful, he pretends to go along with the plan - only to switch at the very last moment.

[Ryr]

Theories on Tobi and Madara (haven't we all got them):

1. Madara survived Hashirama using Izanagi, at the same time awakening his rinnegan as well as gaining some of Hashirama's mokuton powers.

2. He soon dies of his wounds from the battle, regardless of his use of Izanagi, both explaining why everyone thought Hashirama killed him and why no one knew he had awoken the rinnegan.

3. Before his death, Madara channeled his final efforts into creating an avatar using his newly gained rinnegan (which can give life) and/or Izanami (a jutsu that determines fate) and stolen mokuton abilities. This avatar, henceforth known as Tobi, is to continue his legacy, and is imbued with Madara's memories and living will.

4. As a creation of the sharingan and mokuton, Tobi may in fact be a precedent for Orochimaru's research into Mokuton's ability to enhance the sharingan's power. We know at he at least formulated some very astute hypothesis regarding Madara's abilities (his true prime, which included Hashirama's dna)

6. Mokuton is the reason Tobi's body is both able to survive grievous hits (from Yondaime and Torune) and regenerate lost limbs (by using the stuff grown out of the Hashirama clone back at his base.

7. before the Uchiha massacre but AFTER Kakashi's gaining of the sharingan (very soon after), Tobi retrieves Uchiha Obito's remaining eye, and gains the same type of space time manipulation as Kamui (the latter being Kakashi's activated Mangekyo jutsu). Because his body contains mokuton material, which is shown (via Danzo) to augment and shorten the cooldown for sharingan abilities, Tobi's spacetime jutsu is in fact the same as kamui (similar to how Danzo's mind manipulation ability is the same as Kotoamatsukami)

8. Post Uchiha Clan massacre, Tobi gains access to a fresh supply of sharingan eyes (minus Shisui's eyes, which he coveted)

9. Tobi is at least aware that he is not the real Uchiha Madara (despite claiming to be). His claim is at least partially legitimate because he possesses the memories of Madara and shares the same goals (having been created by the former)

Interesting thought. I am especially intrigued by the theory that Tobi is Madara's creation meant for continuing his legacy and perhaps at some point in the future revive the real him, because Madara was clearly expecting a Rinne Tensei when he came out as an Edo.

[EMS]

I agree that having Tobi as Izuna would be far superior. This would also explain how (although Madara thinks Tobi is following his plans) Tobi is instead planning something different from what Madara thinks he is, and may not be working towards the same end goal. Perhaps, if Tobi is Izuna, he didn't give his eyes willingly and therefore still holds a grudge. However knowing Madara is more powerful, he pretends to go along with the plan - only to switch at the very last moment.

it's a big posibility as uchiha madara said to the 5 kages.
madara uchiha:, hashirama.. i don't know what it is that you left behind...but their strength is still nothing compared to yours..if you wanted your underlings to inherit something, you should have taught them a way to make you come back to life just like i did.

Madara said that he taught someone to bring the dead back to life or even better madara knew a jutsu how to bring the dead to life as ET and why madara knows alot about this jutsu?... that is a big question could madara be relate to ET technique?..

[ajith_sakthi]

I think it might be the second hokage as Tobi, many people have said this before i believe. Probably while he was fighting with Kiri this could have happened. What if he left a bunshin or some other jutsu to trigger a Edo Tensei using his own body once he is at the brink of his death. He might have done it for saving Konoha but might have lost his personality or gained higher knowledge in process which made him like this.
Also if a person gains a certain amount of knowlege or power there is nothing like good or bad. Its either works his way or out of his way. If you think about it, a scientist might be testing his medicines with monkeys or worst on humans to save a whole humanity. If we think about his morality its cruel and unhuman to use other lives as a bait to save more lives. But more than anything the knowledge he has gained makes him to go for the medicine to prove himself or get the satisfaction of achieving a greater goal than to think about the lives he would save by inventing the medicine or lives he would take by testing.

[NAM61]

i think tobi is like zetsus a creation made by someone we know zetsus has shodasi dna but i think tobi has both the dna of shodai and madara that is why he told everyone he was madara because in a way he is and why he said nagatos eyes were his because madara probably placed his eyes in nagato.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Would be interesting to see who Tobi really is. I hope it might be quite soon, especially as it seems that we might get back to the fight between him and team Naruto-Bee-Kakashi-Gai.
Don't know if it will be interesting for him to be someone we already know or if he happens to be some artificial creation made by someone with the mixture of Madara's and Hashirama's cells.

[Rarhyx]

It would be a real mindfuck if tobi is oro, butif he is and kishi explains it well then: well played kishi, well played ^^

[Smerten]

I think it might be the second hokage as Tobi, many people have said this before i believe. Probably while he was fighting with Kiri this could have happened. What if he left a bunshin or some other jutsu to trigger a Edo Tensei using his own body once he is at the brink of his death. He might have done it for saving Konoha but might have lost his personality or gained higher knowledge in process which made him like this.
Also if a person gains a certain amount of knowlege or power there is nothing like good or bad. Its either works his way or out of his way. If you think about it, a scientist might be testing his medicines with monkeys or worst on humans to save a whole humanity. If we think about his morality its cruel and unhuman to use other lives as a bait to save more lives. But more than anything the knowledge he has gained makes him to go for the medicine to prove himself or get the satisfaction of achieving a greater goal than to think about the lives he would save by inventing the medicine or lives he would take by testing.

No, for the same reason Tobi isn't the real Madara. Tobirama was Edo Tensei'd by Orochimaru and then sealed by Hiruzen. Now he's not only dead, but sealed as well. Plus, Tobi was not aware of certain crucial elements of the Edo Tensei. He wasn't faking, or he would have created an army himself. There are too many points that would contradict this.

[badluckartist]

it's a big posibility as uchiha madara said to the 5 kages.
madara uchiha:, hashirama.. i don't know what it is that you left behind...but their strength is still nothing compared to yours..if you wanted your underlings to inherit something, you should have taught them a way to make you come back to life just like i did.

Madara said that he taught someone to bring the dead back to life or even better madara knew a jutsu how to bring the dead to life as ET and why madara knows alot about this jutsu?... that is a big question could madara be relate to ET technique?..

He was making a coy comment at returning from the dead, as if he was taking credit for resurrecting himself. It fits his character and how he talks about everything else.

[Criss-Kun]

I just figured this out while reading chapter 571. When you get a close up of Tobis Sharingan, its revealed to be an MS now. It's Madara's brothers MS. Since Madara used his brothers real eyes to complete the EMS, I'm not sure where that one came from...

What? We never saw a close up of his Sharingan on 571, and the only time it appears it's the normal Sharingan.

[Kisame Hoshigaki]

honestly i am dying to know who is behind the mask, or what is behind the mask

kishi has done a great job of keeping us in the dark

[Rarhyx]

honestly i am dying to know who is behind the mask, or what is behind the mask

kishi has done a great job of keeping us in the dark

The only thing I want more is to know how kakashi's face looks like >.<
after plenty of years ew never saw it once ^^'

[Kisame Hoshigaki]

this is a post i made in last weeks naruto chapter thread

honestly i dont think its shisui or obito

but obito is the more likely of the two, look at the comparison

obito's right eye was there when he died after kikashi recieved the left eye

he could have been repaired/revived by madara's rinne-tensi if madara was still alive during that period, which i think he was

and the most compelling argument for the obito= tobi conspiracy is that tobi's ability to use the "void" is like a more advanced version of kikashi's attack where he uses the void

when you think about it kakashi's eye and tobi's eye are the only two sharingans that have used that void type ability

not saying obito= tobi

but its more likely than shisui = tobi

just my opinion

we all know the king of all randomness and ass-pull kishimoto can do anything with this story

just a thought

not saying tobi is obito, but the similarties between tobi and kakashi's eye unique eye abilities are pretty interesting

[Rosebunse]

I don't know why the hell people can't just accept that Obito might be Tobi. I mean, there are plenty of similarities to at least give the idea some thought.

[IChallengeYou!]

Because he isn't and I told you why before. It also makes no sense.