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Thread: Is Hiruzen Sarutobi a crappy leader?

  1. #46
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Askia32's Avatar
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    Re: Is Hiruzen Sarutobi a crappy leader?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    1. Naruto's status as a jinchuuriki is not something that could or should have been kept from the village. The possession of the Kyuubi is something that keeps balance of the nations. The whereabouts of the Kyuubi is thus a priority for the ninja of the village. Plus, with the village just rampaging, Sandaime would have needed to explain what happened to the beast.
    Yet we see through Minato's deductive reasoning that the Third wanted to keep everything about the Kyuubi a secret. Hiruzen could of told the people it was sealed and in there possession, instead of waiting for the village to know and shoulder all there hate to one baby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Sandaime did the best he could for little Naruto in the situation: make it so no one mentioned that he was the host of the Kyuubi to him or any of his peers. That way, Naruto could grow up without knowledge of the monster inside him, and the children of the village would not see him as a monster either.

    Beyond that, there was nothing that Hiruzen could do for Naruto in this regard. Jinchuuriki have been hated and scorned by others in all of the villages as we have learned throughout the manga, and so Konoha reacting this way to Naruto, especially after living through that attack, is not something surprising. Sandaime couldn't force the villagers to accept Naruto, but he at least kept them from openly talking about it to him.
    From what it seems, although not definite, the first two Kyuubi jinchuuriki's were kept secret, so why not Naruto?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    3. This is, in my opinion, the only significant mistake Hiruzen made during his reign, but he isn't a bad leader for this. He was just very sentimental at the moment and had a lapse of judgment. I think it makes his character more endearing that he cared so much for one of his students.
    Yea, but it also contradicts this statement.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/15/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/16/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/17/

    The fact he let Oro go, shows he didn't care about all Oro's human experiments. Yea, it wasn't so endearing to me to let a sick sociopath just walk way, laughing at you in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    You also have to realize that this is the first time Sarutobi was faced with the reality of his beloved student. If Naruto was in the same situation with Sasuke, I doubt Naruto would have killed him either. There's a shock factor here as well as emotional attachment. I'm not saying that it was in hindsight the right decision, but it is an understandable decision.
    Not really. Death isn't the only option. Hiruzen could of completely crippled him or something and locked him away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    There's no way Sandaime could have known at that moment what Orochimaru was capable of doing in the future, and it is not fair to blame someone for atrocities of the future. Hindsight is always 20/20.
    Actually, he said he thought it would happen eventually.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/115/19/
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    4. Sandaime did help Naruto as a ninja by assigning him to the team that he did with Kakashi. Before Naruto became a genin, Naruto was constantly acting out and not showing interest in his studies. Sandaime kept him from being punished severely and watched over him even if it was somewhat from a distance. He even talked with Iruka, Naruto's instructor, helping him come to terms with his feelings about Naruto and ultimately setting up Naruto's first close relationship.
    Touche.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Then, when Naruto became a genin, he set him up with Kakashi. After this, well, Sandaime did not live too much longer, but we have at least seen that he had some relationship with Naruto and that Naruto thought well of him. If Naruto thought well of him, I don't really see a reason for any of us not to do the same.
    Naruto still thinks well of Sasuke, does that mean we should too?
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  2. #47
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
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    Re: Is Hiruzen Sarutobi a crappy leader?

    It is a shame that OneManga no longer has its repository for the links here to work. As such, the links that you have posted aren't working, and I thus am not able to check them, but I will for the sake of discussion believe that they have a true basis. (I say "true basis," because a lot of things are dependent upon one's interpretation and one person can read/view something in a different way than someone else.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Askia32 View Post
    Yet we see through Minato's deductive reasoning that the Third wanted to keep everything about the Kyuubi a secret. Hiruzen could of told the people it was sealed and in there possession, instead of waiting for the village to know and shoulder all there hate to one baby.

    From what it seems, although not definite, the first two Kyuubi jinchuuriki's were kept secret, so why not Naruto?
    I don't recall Minato's deductive reasoning specifically. Perhaps you could describe it for me, as the conversation he had on this subject currently is eluding me. I think you may be talking about Minato discussing Sandaime wanting to keep Kushina's birth a secret, the reason for which presumably was that a jinchuuriki's seal grows fragile during the birthing process and it would present a security risk for the village if word of Kushina giving birth got out.

    I don't know what has shown that the identities of the first two Kyuubi jinchuuriki were kept secret. It has seemed that everyone in each village has always known the identity of their jinchuuriki, while it is kept a mystery to outsiders.


    Quote Quote:
    Yea, but it also contradicts this statement.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/15/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/16/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/17/

    The fact he let Oro go, shows he didn't care about all Oro's human experiments. Yea, it wasn't so endearing to me to let a sick sociopath just walk way, laughing at you in the process.
    Again, I don't know the pages and would gladly respond to what is there if you describe them for me. If I were to guess what you are showing in the first three links, it would be Sandaime expressing how he felt he made a poor decision and Enma also chastising him.

    I don't really think that there is anything to contradict here, as I wasn't expressing anything more than my opinion on Sandaime's actions, as I also considered him letting Orochimaru go to be a poor decision in hindsight. If you don't feel the same way about Sandaime's sentimentality, that's completely okay.

    Quote Quote:
    Not really. Death isn't the only option. Hiruzen could of completely crippled him or something and locked him away.
    That is true. He could have tried to detain Orochimaru.

    Quote Quote:
    Actually, he said he thought it would happen eventually.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/115/19/
    I would have to see the link, but if it is the one of which I am thinking and it is the way I remember it (my memory is certainly not infallible ), I think Sandaime was saying that he knew Orochimaru would be a problem for the village at some later point, but I don't think he envisioned Orochimaru creating such devastation for the village as he did by creating his own village, turning one of Konoha's allies against it, and mounting a large-scale assault.


    Quote Quote:
    Naruto still thinks well of Sasuke, does that mean we should too?
    Naruto's opinion of Sasuke of late is not what it once was. Naruto still cares for Sasuke and wants to save him from himself, but I don't think that is "thinking well of someone."

    By "thinking well of him," I mean that he holds Sandaime in high regard and has positive feelings regarding his character and person. Naruto does not approve of Sasuke as he is now, which is the difference.

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