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Thread: Lost in translation: Number 504

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Lost in translation: Number 504

    A tear-jerking chapter... some differences in the text/translation that I picked up. Again, original scanslation in bold, and my iterations in italics.

    p2
    An unacceptable plan...!
    A difficult proposal to accept...!

    Minato: "You'll meet the grown-up Naruto sooner than you think..."
    Minato: "Although you won't be able to meet the grown-up Naruto
    for too long...
    "
    Minato specifically refers to the length of time Kushina will be in contact with Naruto... not the length of time until meeting Naruto.

    p3
    Minato: "You should understand... you saw your own country fall apart."
    Minato: "Your own country was destroyed, so shouldn't you understand what that's like?"
    Japanese text mentions the destruction of the country - not the falling apart of one.

    Minato: "You know the pain of growing up without a home of your own..."
    Minato: "(You know) The unbelievable hardships that follow those people that are left without a country..."

    p4
    Minato: "There are things Naruto needs to be told, things I could never say myself, That's the mother's job and I need you to carry it out. Even if you only have the briefest moments to do so."
    Minato: "I could never give Naruto what you can give him as his mother, and even if it's for the briefest amount of time. It's just something that only mothers can do."
    This was difficult to translate. Minato is implicating that mothers can give their children something that fathers could never do, and even the briefest of moments Kushina has with Naruto, is more valuable than all the time Minato could have had with Naruto.

    p5
    Minato: "Dying to make a better life for his son, that's the stuff you let the father handle."
    Minato: "I can die for the sake of my son... That's something even a father could do."
    Minato refers to the 'something even a father could do' later in p9

    p6
    Frame 2: "We're too late they've put up a barrier around the nine-tails!"
    Frame 2: Kyuubi says "Grrr"

    Third: "Whatever they're doing, they're doing it alone!"
    Third: "No use... They have put up a barrier so that the Kyuubi will not
    escape! They're (Minato and Kushina) trying to do something about the Kyuubi all on their own!
    "

    p8
    Kyuubi: "The ceremonial throne! He plans to reseal me into that child?!"
    Kyuubi: "The ceremonial throne! He plans to seal me again?! and into a child like that?!"

    Minato: "Kushina! Stay with me!"
    Minato: "Kushina! Are you OK?!"

    p9
    Kushina:" If the father can do this job..."
    Minato: "I told you... this is something that even a father could do..."
    This is not Kushina speaking... but rather Minato.

    Kushina: "You win"
    Kushina: "I understand..."

    Kushina: "First arguement... you've ever won... I guess you're really serious..."
    Kushina: "This is the first... (marital) arguement I have ever lost... you're really that serious..."

    p10
    Gamatora: "Aah the nine-tails! and fourth, what the hell happened to you!"
    Gamatora: "Whoa! Kyuubi! And the Fourth! What the heck is going on!?"

    Gamatora: "Got it! Good... goodbye."
    Gamatora: "I've got the key! I'll be on my way (to Jiraiya)"

    p12
    Minato: "We don't have much time... if you have anything left to say to Naruto..."
    Minato: "We won't see him for a while... Let's say what we would want to say to him right now..."

    p13
    Kushina: "And study your Ninjutsu... I was never very good at it, maybe you will be..."
    Kushina: "and although I wasn't too great at it, study hard and practice your ninjitsu"
    Kushina was obviously not too studious or diligent... she was not referring to being bad at Ninjutsu.

    Kushina: "Make sure you listen to the teachers... at the academy."
    Kushina: "at the academy - respect your teachers and your senpai (senior students)"

    Kushina: "and remember avoid the three vices of shinobi... don't borrow money if you can help it."
    Kushina: "and an important thing... the three vices of shinobi...be careful about borrowing and lending money..."
    Japanese culture often consider both borrowing and lending money to carry equal potentials for danger.

    Kushina: "and as for women... well, I'm a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... just try not to pick a weird one... try to find somone like your mother."
    Kushina: "and the problematic vice... women. I'm a girl myself, so i don't really know... but the world only has males and females... you'll probably find an interest a girl, so don't get reeled in by a strange girl... find a girl like me, your mother."
    Kushina does not mention Naruto 'picking' a girl... but rather being picked BY a weird girl.

    p14
    Kushina: "and the fourth warning... watch out for Jiraiya-sensei"
    Kushina: "and one more thing about the three vices... be careful with Jiraiya-sensei...tte ba ne (ending sentence with her version of dattebayo)"
    Of course... Kushina is half-joking, as indicated by her 'tte ba ne'

    Kushina: "Naruto... you're going to experience a lot of pain and suffering..."
    Kushina: "Naruto... there will be hard times... painful times... and a lot of them..."

    p15
    Kushina: "We made you into the Nine-tail's vessel, and left you with such a heavy burden. I wasn't there to raise you... I wasn't there to love you!"
    Kushina: "We made you into the Kyuubi vessel, and made you carry our burden. We couldn't live alongside with you and couldn't give you our love"

    Naruto: "But I never blamed either of you!"
    Naruto: "But... mom, dad, I've never once resented you guys"
    Specifically mentions both mom and dad.

    Naruto: "Maybe I never understood what a parent's love is really like, but I never had a mom or dad to begin with... so I managed."
    Naruto: "Truthfully, I really didn't know what a parent's love was like...
    You guys weren't there...so I could only kinda imagine what it was like...
    "
    Naruto doesn't put an ounce of blame on his parents... he never said 'managed' but rather tried to imagine what it was like to feel loved by parents.

    p17
    Naruto: "You filled me up with love before you put the nine-tails in me! So here I am happy and healthy!"
    Naruto: "I know now that my 'vessel' was filled with love too, even before the Kyuubi. And that's why I am happy too."
    Naruto refers to Kushina's 'vessel' that was filled with love, and that his
    vessel, like hers, was filled with love as well.

    p18
    Naruto: "I'm glad I ended up being your son!"
    Naruto: "I'm glad that I am you and dad's son"
    Again - text specifically mentions 'mom and dad'
    Spoiler show


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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Thank you so much for this. I knew there were differences. I especially liked naruto's comforting words for his mother. Him also repeatedly mentioning mom and dad personalized his feelings for his parents. It's more touching. Also the use of the word vessel filled with love.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Thanks...it's funny how Kushina told Naruto to not be picked up by a weird girl. Funny shit. There are other notable differences here and there, like the ninjutsu study or in the end with imagining parents love.

    What I could mention as being a big mistake, but obviously not the scanlator's fault, is not being truthful to the exact panels in the manga. And I'm talking about p6 where I think the translators couldn't fit every word in the third panel, that's why they chose to fill in Kyuubi's panel as well. It's really strange even so, because the bubble points to Kyuubi, which is pretty weird, and it's funny that nobody noticed it, well at least when I was looking.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Alterno's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Thanks for the corrections, you really rock. I would like to let you know that what you are doing it is really appreciated.

    Thank you
    Last edited by Alterno; August 03, 2010 at 07:21 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member ryzvonusef's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Quote Originally Posted by boyakist4649 View Post
    Kushina: "and as for women... well, I'm a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... just try not to pick a weird one... try to find somone like your mother."
    Kushina: "and the problematic vice... women. I'm a girl myself, so i don't really know... but the world only has males and females... you'll probably find an interest a girl, so don't get reeled in by a strange girl... find a girl like me, your mother."
    Kushina does not mention Naruto 'picking' a girl... but rather being picked BY a weird girl.
    Thanks, once again, for you awesome translations. Since the portion quoted above is the one is causing so much trouble in the fandom, could you define what "strange" means in this context? I understand you are Japanese, what type of girl would a Japanese mother consider "strange"?
    Does she mean morally bankrupt, immodest, eccentric or what? Am I right in thinking she just meant some one who is not, well, a slut, or just after him for the fame or money? (In other words, just a generic advice) Also, Hinata was called "weird" by Naruto, did he mean it in the same sense as what Kushina might have meant?

    Just want to ask this question to settle this issue for once for and for all.
    Last edited by ryzvonusef; August 03, 2010 at 06:56 AM.
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    Proofreaders 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Sherbetmayhem's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    I much prefer the translations in bold. While yours may be more accurate in terms of word-for-word translation, the others are moulded into phrases a western language is more familiar with, which carry the same underlying meaning as the original Japanese. They flow more naturally than yours, too.

    I think you're doing a good job, as in future it could actually serve to clarify issues of contention when it comes to particular meanings, but for now I prefer the Binktopia/Sleepyfans method of phraseology =)
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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    ^^But those exact phrases of western language are the ones that distort some of the meanings...and some of them are pretty off...and even a a beginner like me notices mistakes sometimes, which is not so good IMO...

    I think word for word translations are the best, mostly because they give the original meaning, and the english is pretty pretty good, the sentences are coherent.
    Also I think it sometimes brings out certain elements that might be natural for a western person, but it's very uncommon and not characteristic for shounen manga.

    I like word for word translations more if they make sense in english...
    Last edited by benelori; August 03, 2010 at 07:11 AM.

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Quote Originally Posted by ryzvonusef View Post
    Thanks, once again, for you awesome translations. Since the portion quoted above is the one is causing so much trouble in the fandom, could you define what "strange" means in this context? I understand you are Japanese, what type of girl would a Japanese mother consider "strange"?
    Does she mean morally bankrupt, immodest, eccentric or what? Am I right in thinking she just meant some one who is not, well, a slut, or just after him for the fame or money? (In other words, just a generic advice) Also, Hinata was called "weird" by Naruto, did he mean it in the same sense as what Kushina might have meant?

    Just want to ask this question to settle this issue for once for and for all.
    A "strange" girl... I guess I would consider anyone that really doesn't conform to traditional views as "strange." Allow me to elaborate.
    The Japanese for this is 「変な」子 - and the direct translation would be "strange/different." However, the application of the phrase would differ. Someone who thinks of themselves before keeping harmony of the whole. Those who have "revolutionary" ideas in which they hope to conform others to. "Strange girl" in this context does not necessarily implicate bad things - I believe Kushina was saying that a girl that may be a handful would only cause Naruto more hardship on his part.

    So in your interpretations - I would lean towards "general advice" rather than diving into details. Each woman would probably define a "strange girl" under a unique spectra of criteria - I guarantee it. (^_^)b
    Spoiler show


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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    @Sherbetmayhem

    I would like to support what Ben said, but also I would like to add that sometimes you look back a few chapters and you find out that what is said in Ch. Z, doesn't follow up correctly what was said in Ch. Y and Ch. X, Leading to confusing people, if you look @ Youtube and search for Naruto chapter 504, a lot of people are misinterpreting Kushina words, because chapter English scanlation went a little beyond what an adaptation would be.

    If you look into Boyakists "lost in translations", you find that sometimes even if scanlators used similar words, or the same words.. they screw it's order leading to a different meaning is not the same to say:

    Shit, that dog is big ... than to say ... That dog is big shit.

    I'm thankful to Boyakist for doing this because he give us a closer glimpse of what the text is about, since she is japanese ... she could understand easily things that we might not about the manga because the author of the same is also japanese, especially when it comes to cultural elements.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member ryzvonusef's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Quote Originally Posted by boyakist4649 View Post
    A "strange" girl... I guess I would consider anyone that really doesn't conform to traditional views as "strange." Allow me to elaborate.
    The Japanese for this is 「変な」子 - and the direct translation would be "strange/different." However, the application of the phrase would differ. Someone who thinks of themselves before keeping harmony of the whole. Those who have "revolutionary" ideas in which they hope to conform others to. "Strange girl" in this context does not necessarily implicate bad things - I believe Kushina was saying that a girl that may be a handful would only cause Naruto more hardship on his part.

    So in your interpretations - I would lean towards "general advice" rather than diving into details. Each woman would probably define a "strange girl" under a unique spectra of criteria - I guarantee it. (^_^)b
    Thanks, and yes I agree, your reading of it does tend to make Kushina's advice rather generic "stay away from bad girls" sort of thing.
    At least she isn't pointedly dissing Hinata, who, incidentally, wasn't even born at the time of the comment! That particular interpretation by the fandom really irked me

    Not that any of this is going to please the shippers
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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    First and foremost - thank you for all of your support! Without your posts - I would definitely run out of fuel to do this \(^o^)/

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherbetmayhem View Post
    I much prefer the translations in bold. While yours may be more accurate in terms of word-for-word translation, the others are moulded into phrases a western language is more familiar with, which carry the same underlying meaning as the original Japanese. They flow more naturally than yours, too.

    I think you're doing a good job, as in future it could actually serve to clarify issues of contention when it comes to particular meanings, but for now I prefer the Binktopia/Sleepyfans method of phraseology =)
    I'll definitely consider flipping the bold and italics.
    I chose to do this (initially) because my intentions were not to correct the work of the scanslators, but rather give an additional interpretation.

    I find that the scanslators do a GREAT job in getting these translations done in a rapid manner. I actually never appreciated what they do until recently (about ch ~490 or so), because I have never read a Japanese comic in English. Through reading their work, I noticed that they adapted the text VERY well - however there were subtleties that were 'lost in translation.'

    For example, one cardinal rule of translations are to keep proper names/terms in their original language. Rather than "Nine-tail," a traditional translation would read "Kyuubi (Nine-tail)", and use "Kyuubi" from there on out. However, I would like to stress that the scanslators have done a phenomenal job with adapting the translations to better fit their audience. Specific example: the Hakke-Fuuin. Written as 八卦封印 in Japanese - 八 Eight + 八卦, a description of the eight trigrams that are present in Japanese/Chinese language and culture (Wikipedia for more info) and 封印 which means seal. Therefore the "Eight Trigrams Seal" as the scanslators use is cleverly adapted.

    Then also there are differences in sentence structure between the languages - which I won't even dive into... ^^;

    But thanks for your comments - I really do appreciate it!

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    ^^But those exact phrases of western language are the ones that distort some of the meanings...and some of them are pretty off...and even a a beginner like me notices mistakes sometimes, which is not so good IMO...

    I think word for word translations are the best, mostly because they give the original meaning, and the english is pretty pretty good, the sentences are coherent.
    Also I think it sometimes brings out certain elements that might be natural for a western person, but it's very uncommon and not characteristic for shounen manga.

    I like word for word translations more if they make sense in english...
    Thanks for all of your continual support/comments too Benelori!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alterno View Post
    @Sherbetmayhem

    I would like to support what Ben said, but also I would like to add that sometimes you look back a few chapters and you find out that what is said in Ch. Z, doesn't follow up correctly what was said in Ch. Y and Ch. X, Leading to confusing people, if you look @ Youtube and search for Naruto chapter 504, a lot of people are misinterpreting Kushina words, because chapter English scanlation went a little beyond what an adaptation would be.

    If you look into Boyakists "lost in translations", you find that sometimes even if scanlators used similar words, or the same words.. they screw it's order leading to a different meaning is not the same to say:

    Shit, that dog is big ... than to say ... That dog is big shit.

    I'm thankful to Boyakist for doing this because he give us a closer glimpse of what the text is about, since she is japanese ... she could understand easily things that we might not about the manga because the author of the same is also japanese, especially when it comes to cultural elements.
    As you mention, there are several meanings that are often lost through interpretation. They are likely not to misinterpret - but they are likely to omit an item here and there. And since all translations are heavily dependent on context and interpretation, it's best to go through it carefully and be sure you do your best to maintain the authors' original message, just like you say above.

    Thanks Alterno for your kind words ^^
    Spoiler show


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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Natoma's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    i hope you find the time to start putting out full script translations. it'd be great to have another script out there, and hopefully another scanlating team would pick it up so we'd have a choice.

    I found the Hisshouburaikan translations with Binktopia to be superior to the Sleepyfans translations most of the time, but on some pages I'd keep the Sleepyfans translations in because I simply liked the way they constructed a certain phrase.

    Having a boyakist translation in there would help immensely in bringing more choice to this endeavor

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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    First of all thank you for your effort.
    Id like to stress that its important to read a more accurate translation in order to understand narutoverse .
    i fully agree vith alterno that translation can affect our interpretation,
    if i add that ve are all from different parts of vorld,ve can see and understands expressions differently.
    Thats vright boyakist4649 is so important to us!
    ps sorry for spelling as my keyboard fall apart.

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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherbetmayhem View Post
    While yours may be more accurate in terms of word-for-word translation, the others are moulded into phrases a western language is more familiar with, which carry the same underlying meaning as the original Japanese.
    I'd have to disagree. Doing a loose translation can shift the underlying meaning significantly.. I generally don't want to see something that has been altered too far for someone to get back to the original text if they re-translate it.. And no matter how much you try to bend it to fit there are going to be cultural points that won't match up to western expectations. Better that people get familiar with them, than translators try to bury them.

    We all have our preferences, like I said in another thread its nice for all of us to have another solid translation so we can judge for ourselves. You may not be happy with these, but I certainly am.


    Quote Originally Posted by boyakist4649 View Post
    The Japanese for this is 「変な」子 - and the direct translation would be "strange/different." However, the application of the phrase would differ.
    I take it to be a direct reference to Hinata, who was referred to that way back during the Chuunin exam arc.. Kishi is intentionally stirring the pot there, but from the practical standpoint nothing has changed.

    Strange or weird are pretty common translations. You concept of what that kind of person would be sounds more like a selfish or self-centered person. Although Japan tends to value group harmony much higher than American, so even those are a bit of a stretch.
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member weehoo107's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 504

    Thank you very much for this. The chapter makes much more sense now

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