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I've been keeping this in my mind for quite some time now, but it eventually turned into this and bursted out.
I was thinking that Rinnegan was actually a trait that Rikkudou got after incorporating the Jyuubi into him. These later were passed down to the next generations, and he managed to learn/invent ninjutsu with these new powers. Ok, so how would have he defeated the Jyuubi without ninjutsu and without Rinnegan?
My answer is that his previous powers came not from ninjutsu, but from nature's lore! We all saw it is possible, since Naruto learned things from the toads that other ninjas don't even dream on learning, and Jiraya made a pact with them after finding Myobokuzan, not because his ninjutsu was great, but just because.
So, the same way, Rikkudou might have been a traveller, a hermit, and through his voyages he might have found the Snakes, the Toads and the Slugs in constant fight. He then managed to arrange a truce between them, which was thanked a lot.
Originally Posted by The retribution gifts
All 3 races taught him their best as the first wise traveller who made contact with them. All this was also done in order for him to rid the world of the menace from the outside, the Jyuubi.
Having Oro's snake, great chakra, strength, speed and even greater regeneration abilities, Rikkudou fought Jyuubi. And after a failed attempt to get rid of him, he managed to trap him inside his body using the Great White Snake's powers and the teachings of the snakes clan, resulting in that same symbol seen in Naruto's belly: the 8 trigram seal.
After fighting Jyuubi in his own mind, Rikkudou managed to subdue him. Being on his own ground and helped by the creatures' wisdom, he did it and got access to those immense powers that resulted in the creation of Ninjutsu, such as the Rinnegan and the cloak.
I know how farfetched this is. But after thinking a while some things started to fit together, and so I decided to feed you guys with these thoughts. lol What do you guys think about it?
It could explain why Kabuto/Oro said Sasuke's body (eyes) holds the secret behind ninjutsu.
Sharingan is related to Rinnegan, related to Juubi, related to beginning of ninjutsu.
well Rikkudou was practically the first one to use ninjutsu right? ... I'm pretty sure when Jubi was getting sealed he had no Idea what the hell was happening he was probably all like OMG!! WTF!!!
Last edited by Zero Sama; August 06, 2010 at 03:25 AM.
Interesting theory, what do you think about him and other summons though. I know the three you mentioned are pretty big in the narutoverse, so I'd understand you on that point.
It does seem farfetched imo. It was said that Rikudou Sennin's amazing skills and knowledge gave birth to ninjutsu/shinobijutsu itself.
It was also said that Rikudou Sennin used Fuuin-Jutsu to seal the Juubi inside himself and Fuuin-Jutsu is part of Ninjutsu. Before mastery the art of sealing, especially bijuu-sealing, I would start with more conventional Ninjutsu arts/techniques. And I would be more than impressed if, going into the Narutoverse, I was to see a no-arms snake using sealing jutsu that normally require to have hands, seriously.
And how would your theory explain Nagato, who had the exact same genetic abilities as Rikudou Sennin's. I doubt it was just a coincidence.
From Pain's fight against Kyuubi, who even though when to 8 tails could only go at best to only half the power Kyuubi should normally have considering Shikifuujin, I seriously doubt Narutoverse's history ever saw the birth of a monster that could fight the unification of all bijuu without the full Rin'negan genetic traits and Shinobijutsu/Ninjutsu. Yondaime even said that he sealed half of Kyuubi in Naruto because he believed no one with some very special power could defeat Tobi, now imagine having to fight juubi.
And for the quote, about the Toads teaching him taijutsu. Sometimes I think the only ninja art that Rikudou Sennin might not have invented (or maybe he gave it its new form, it best efficiency) might be Taijutsu. From what Jiraiya and Tobi said not only did 6dou Sage defeated juubi but he also stopped the First Sengoku Jidai. And most likely people were fighting in the way of samurais at that time (since ninjutsu came with Sage dude), meaning they were fighting with swords and body martial art, a form of tai(body)jutsu. Because I seriously can't imagine people fighting without using the first physical weapon that we all have, that is our body, our fists to puch, our legs/feets to kick. 6dou must have gave physical martial arts its best form, that is the ninja taijutsu.
For the principle of friendship with animals, I found it interesting. Sometimes I'm thinking that as old as he is Oogama Sennin might have known Rikudou Sennin, maybe even have been one of his kuchiyose.
Last edited by GyoMasta; August 07, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
@ GyoMasta: Well, I was thinking that sealing jutsus might not need hand-seals always, and the first ones would be more like Kushina's chakra-chains. I didn't see her using any seal to activate it on Naruto, so likely there are some Fuuinjutsu that are usable only with your will. Having hands would only improve them further, i.e..
The learning from animals principle I got from Buddha and Bodhidharma. They developed their techniques after learning from wise animals while living an ascetic life. These would be the root of ninjutsu, not really Rinnegan.
Oro with just the white snake, no arms, was enough to fight the QB 4 tails without dieing and somewhat with a victory, it's likely that its rebirth power is so immense that combined to Sage-arts would make a person super-human (likely surpasses current Naruto with cloak). We never saw how powerful all these natural jutsus could become if combined into one same person. Imo, Rinnegan is overrated, and the real power behind So6P was the Toad/Snake/Slug techs.
Add to the snake and sage art whatever the slugs can grant a person, and there you go: enough firepower to overcome Kyuubi and partially, the Jyuubi. Remember that to seal a monster one doesn't have to actually be stronger than it (see Minato & Kyuubi).
EDIT: Actually, we saw how does Sage-arts alone can become quite as much as the Rinnegan, when Naruto managed to fight Nagato on equal terms.
Last edited by Jack Van Burace; August 07, 2010 at 09:30 PM.
RS sealed 10-tails. Big difference. He didnt beat it. It is impossible. Even 9-tails cant be beaten in a fight without a fuinjutsu (may be a bigger Chibaku tensei can do a trick but fuinjutsu is an easier option). 10 tails is a much much stronger. So he had a rinnegan before the 10-tails fight. Without it he couldnt invent this sealing jutsu to seal 10-tails. He was simply born with the rinnegan. So a great shinobi with the same fuinjutsu can replicate this feat (at least Tobi can do it by his own words).
P.S I think that ninjutsu was invented because RS was the first man who could see the chakra flow (rinnegan s first ability). This allowed him to mold it and invent ninjutsu. People before him wasnt aware of it. So in theory without a rinnegan inventing a complex fuinjutsu is almost impossible.
Last edited by Castigator; August 08, 2010 at 08:14 AM.
Nagato himself was powerful. He had a giant supply of chakra. If it weren't for the fact that Hanzo took away his legs no one could have stopped him. Also Pain jutsu takes away a lot of chakra.
Nagato could have taken down the kyuubi easily if he wasn't arrogant. He wasted a ton of chakra on every thing else except Naruto. I believe the SO6P was powerful and had a great deal of chakra. Rikudō Sennin could take the soul from the body (why the body is sealed in the moon) and absorb chakra based attacks (no chakra balls thrown at him). Nagato also could shinra tensei 3 giant toads, So the juubi could be thrown around a bit.
After watching Nagato. I can only speculate how powerful the Rikudō Sennin was, he was just more skillful then Nagato.
But I don't see any reason to doubt the "original" version
It seems kinda logical, doesn't it? Such "things" happen, whether it was a random mutation or some "gods" work.
If he had gained all of that knowledge by himself, it wouldn't have been heritable. The Sharingan and Byakugan are proof of this, also Mokoton no Jutsu might be.
We saw that someone with a Rinnegan as supernatural powers by how it is defined in the naruto universe, as he can master every element and even a whole bunch of six other paths. He also has this unique summoned statue and incredible chakra. Would seem a kinda weird result to me if he had gained everything by himself.
By the way I think that these three types of animals, snakes/slugs/frogs, is only because of the Sannin but not important for the overall balance of the naruto universe. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiraiya - The Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya)
Well, I theorize the rinnengan and whatever power the rikudo had was specially designed to deal with the juubi. Think about it, what exactly is it that those decended from the rikudo have in common? The uchiha have a sharingan capable of making biju into their bitches. Hashirama for some reason had an special power which enabled him to suppress and control biju. Finally, kushina and a few other uzumaki had special chakra's capable of taming biju. Basically, those who are descended from the rikudo seem to occasionally inherit a special ability to tame or control biju to their liking. Now, if the descendants of the rikudo are capable of this, what should we expect the real deal to be like? Rinnengan and whatever power the rikudo had most likely had the innate ability to tame biju IMO.
He didnt defeat the juubi...he sealed it. There's a difference. The fourth hokage didnt defeat the kyuubi...he sealed it. There's a difference.