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Thread: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai & Hollow Mask

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Reiatsu in relation to Bankai & Hollow Mask

    - EDIT: I heard a good suggestion to change the thread to include to reiastu in relation to Hollow mask and Bankai. I think it make the discussions a little more interesting.


    - Do you guys think bankai increases reiastu by a large amount? Here's some evidence that may support the idea that it does:

    http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...each&c=156&p=6
    http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=120&p=11
    http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=414&p=12

    http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=269&p=14, http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=275&p=14

    http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=204&p=14, http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=204&p=15, http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=204&p=16, http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=204&p=19, http://www.bleachcentral.com/manga.p...ach&c=204&p=20


    - Ukitake noting that Yama's reiastu is large for an initial release makes it seem like bankai's generally release a lot of reiastu.

    - Gin likely doesn't have double the reiastu of a captain. Him being able to pierce Aizen in his powered up form is probably due to increase of reiastu and the force behind his stabbing attacks.

    - Ikkaku was able to stop an released arrancur who was previously beating crap out him, by releasing the reiastu needed to achieve bankai.

    - Renji noted that their is a large difference between his shikai self and Syazel, but didn't say anything about his bankai. Also Syazel said something like anything less than bankai would be useless against an Espada.

    - Hitsu made sure to immediately go bankai when fighting Luppi and Harribel. Seems like he was using his bankai's huge reiastu as a defense against their attacks.


    Since bankai seems to increase reiastu by a large amount, I was wondering if the stronger captains (Urahara, Isshin, Yoruichi, Shunsui, Ukitake, Gin etc.) when using bankai, could match or rival Yama's and Aizen's reiastu when their only using shikai.

    What kubo said in about Shunsui's bankai and Aizen, also makes me think that bankai gives a huge increase in reiastu.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; August 14, 2010 at 06:24 PM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Reiastu Discussion Thread

    What do you mean by increase in reiatsu? Reiatsu means spirit pressure and depending how you interpret that bit an increase in reiatsu can mean drastically different things.

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    Re: Reiastu Discussion Thread

    I mean how much reiastu is released.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
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    Re: Reiastu Discussion Thread

    im under the impression that bankais themselves are comprised of reiatsu, and since they are so big and take more strength to weild, more reiatsu is released in almost all aspects of a activating/using bankai.

    as for how much more is released, it just depends on the user and how much reiatsu they have to expell at any one time to use the bankai. i almost imagine reiatsu as more like a muscle that can be flexed and just wears down over extended use, and not like a fuel that is burned and reproduced, which is more like how i imagine chakra in naruto.

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    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: Reiastu Discussion Thread

    Reiatsu levels can most definitely vary. As a character gets stronger their reiatsu rises. Ulquiorra's comments about Ichigo confirm that; his reiatsu is noted as varying wildly. Reiatsu output can also be suppressed, Ichigo's inability to do so is why he has a constant release zanpakutou. Ishida discusses this constantly, Isshin noted that if captain class characters didn't suppress their reiatsu they would all have swords the size of skyscrapers. Nothing has been said about reiatsu being static; some characters seem to have an upper limit, some seem to have a lot more at a young age. It has always been implied that a character can develop more through training.

    About bankai, yes more reiatsu is released. That does not mean a character gains a temporary reiatsu boost, only less is repressed. Any way, other than the fact that more is used the effect of using shikai and bankai on the user is relatively unimportant to the plot. What matters is that a certain amount is necessary for each release, relatively few shinigami have enough to even have a shikai and the number of shinigami who have a bankai is an exclusive club. Having a bankai is such a rare thing that a shinigami instantly comes to the attention of the higher ups for promotion, why Ikkaku insists on hiding it.

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    Re: Reiastu Discussion Thread

    I think bankai in general simply consumes a lot energy a lot faster. Reiatsu means spirit pressure so having more energy released over a given amount of time could be translated to an increase in reiatsu. I don't think bankai has any effect on the actual amount of spirit energy a user has, it just increases the consumption rate.

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    Re: Reiastu Discussion Thread

    All I know is that if certain captains can beat foes with bankai only and then others can take on even stronger foes with shikai, they must have more reiatsu. Like Yama, we all know he has superior amounts of it. Shunsui, taking down Starrk and the comments about Kubo saying he left it out purposefully. Shinji challenging Aizen with Shikai. Urahara the same, Isshin as well. Even though the only 'victory' in shikai against an espada or another 'captain level' was really Shunsui, I'm sure the bankais of the guys i just named would increase their reiatsu. Why wouldn't it?

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    Re: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I think bankai in general simply consumes a lot energy a lot faster. Reiatsu means spirit pressure so having more energy released over a given amount of time could be translated to an increase in reiatsu. I don't think bankai has any effect on the actual amount of spirit energy a user has, it just increases the consumption rate.
    My opinion as well. Ishida described reiatsu output like a water spigot; most shinigami/quincy can control the flow of water. Shikai and bankai are like turning the spigot up, releasing more water. I don't think either give a temporary boost in reiatsu, the character is simply using more of what is already there.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    All I know is that if certain captains can beat foes with bankai only and then others can take on even stronger foes with shikai, they must have more reiatsu. Like Yama, we all know he has superior amounts of it. Shunsui, taking down Starrk and the comments about Kubo saying he left it out purposefully. Shinji challenging Aizen with Shikai. Urahara the same, Isshin as well. Even though the only 'victory' in shikai against an espada or another 'captain level' was really Shunsui, I'm sure the bankais of the guys i just named would increase their reiatsu. Why wouldn't it?
    I think the idea is that they are all senior, captain class shinigami. They are so experienced, so well trained that they have honed their fighting skill to the point that their shikai is enough to defeat the most powerful enemy. Byakuya said to Renji that the reason it took so long for most shinigami to develop bankai is how big and unwieldy it is. Once acquiring one it is necessary to train how to best use it. If we apply that to shunsui he has had a massive amount of time to train and refine his shikai. While a lower level release the same thing most apply, an experienced shinigami is simply better at using it. All of the captains you mentioned, with the exception of isshin (who is an unknown), have been captain class for over 100 years. The shinigami who have needed bankai to defeat opponents are much younger.

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    Re: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai

    I don't think it'd make much sense if bankai actually increased the overall amount of reiatsu an user has. If bankai icreased reiatsu then managing it would not be so dificult. On the other hand, if it simply consumes a lot more of it at a higher rate, then what we have seen so far makes sense.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think it'd make much sense if bankai actually increased the overall amount of reiatsu an user has. If bankai icreased reiatsu then managing it would not be so dificult. On the other hand, if it simply consumes a lot more of it at a higher rate, then what we have seen so far makes sense.
    Well I don't believe it makes sense that a bankai would drain its user's reiatsu faster than the shikai or sealed state. If that were true then Ichigo is a moron for constantly remaining in bankai... Granted that Ichigo is a moron anyway.

    I just don't see a reason as to why a bankai would deplete it's users reiatsu. A bankai is just the full/complete release of a shinigami's weapon -with the shikai being a partial or midway release- so why would that have an effect on reiatsu consumption? Maybe certain techniques accessible only through bankai consume more reiatsu, however, I doubt that simply being in bankai form does.

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    Re: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai

    Reiryoku means "spiritual energy", bankai doesn't change the reiryoku amount of a shinigami. Reiatsu means "spiritual pressure" which is a consequence of using reiryoku. Bankai techniques require more reiryoku to work (and they deplete user's reiryoku), therefore a shinigami releases more reiatsu when he/she goes bankai.
    Last edited by Gran Maestro; August 12, 2010 at 04:01 AM.

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    Re: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    Well I don't believe it makes sense that a bankai would drain its user's reiatsu faster than the shikai or sealed state. If that were true then Ichigo is a moron for constantly remaining in bankai... Granted that Ichigo is a moron anyway.

    I just don't see a reason as to why a bankai would deplete it's users reiatsu. A bankai is just the full/complete release of a shinigami's weapon -with the shikai being a partial or midway release- so why would that have an effect on reiatsu consumption? Maybe certain techniques accessible only through bankai consume more reiatsu, however, I doubt that simply being in bankai form does.
    Ichigo's bankai is sort of a special deal, it is extremely small and it compresses power. Even then, back in SS he had trouble controlling it and it ended up hurting him and as described by shirosaki, crushing his bones.

    Byakuya also stated the biggest flaw of bankai and the reason for which 10 years of training after acquiring it were required was the overwhelming power it released. It stands to logic the extra released power would come from whatever power reserve a shinigami already had. Take a look at renji's bankai now. The thing requires a constant supply of reiatsu to stay together and hikotsu taiho, which would be its strongest technique, also seem to consume a good deal of it. Perhaps in most cases merely staying in bankai won't consume extra energy but in turn using bankai would consume much more energy at a much greater rate than a shikai would.

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    Re: Reiatsu in relation to Bankai

    Maybe Juushiro had another point when he said Shunsui's bankai shouldn't be seen. People used to say it might be 'illegal' or 'forbidden' like a certain type of kido or stop time, but I think with some characters that the Bankai's are so strong, or so vast, their reiatsu would encompass people not meant to be caught in it. I think this is why Shunsui might have waited to use kageoni on Starrk and (fake) Aizen. Or also when he uses Irooni. If these guys have bankais that are so strong, they could very well kill others that aren't supposed to even be in the fight. Hell, even Hitsugaya was worried about catching his comrades in his super technique, so he waited until he only had a flower or less left.

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