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View Poll Results: Strongest Hokage?

Voters
278. You may not vote on this poll
  • Senju Hashirama (Shodaime)

    105 37.77%
  • Senju Tobirama (Nidaime)

    6 2.16%
  • Sarutobi Hiruzen (Sandaime)

    50 17.99%
  • Namikaze Minato (Yondaime)

    112 40.29%
  • Tsunade (Godaime)

    5 1.80%
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Thread: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

  1. #601
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Tobi has apparently knowledge about Hashirama and Minato, having have fought Minato and having Madara's knowledge (at least the end of it) of the fight.

    Though in terms of being an actual ninja, Minato's still superior because he can actually kill quickly. Hashirama has raw power and could beat Minato, but Minato has more chances of landing surprise attacks and being stealthy. Plus, Minato's a coldblooded killer when he has to be, he's killed his enemies while Hashirama didn't even manage to kill Kakuzu for some reason. Maybe it was pity, maybe he couldn't care less, but he didn't complete the job.

    Too bad we don't know more about Hiruzen. I'm sure the hype he got in manga is well deserved, we just haven't had a chance to see it yet.

  2. #602
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Tobi has apparently knowledge about Hashirama and Minato, having have fought Minato and having Madara's knowledge (at least the end of it) of the fight.

    Though in terms of being an actual ninja, Minato's still superior because he can actually kill quickly. Hashirama has raw power and could beat Minato, but Minato has more chances of landing surprise attacks and being stealthy. Plus, Minato's a coldblooded killer when he has to be, he's killed his enemies while Hashirama didn't even manage to kill Kakuzu for some reason. Maybe it was pity, maybe he couldn't care less, but he didn't complete the job.

    Too bad we don't know more about Hiruzen. I'm sure the hype he got in manga is well deserved, we just haven't had a chance to see it yet.
    Minato can kill "quickly" fodder level individuals... Hashirama's polem dust almost killed all the curent Kages and only a plot no jutsus aka willpower saved them.

    Also you actualy belive Hashirama is not as "cold" when he needs to be? The simple fact that Kakuzu was alive means nothing. I can give you a long list of posible scenarios on how that dude was left alive. Minato himself was unable to "complete the job" and kill Tobi now was he.

    PS. Do you remember Minato not killing Bee? Yeah he is a softy to.

  3. #603
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Minato can kill "quickly" fodder level individuals... Hashirama's polem dust almost killed all the curent Kages and only a plot no jutsus aka willpower saved them.

    Also you actualy belive Hashirama is not as "cold" when he needs to be? The simple fact that Kakuzu was alive means nothing. I can give you a long list of posible scenarios on how that dude was left alive. Minato himself was unable to "complete the job" and kill Tobi now was he.

    PS. Do you remember Minato not killing Bee? Yeah he is a softy to.
    problem of not killing tobi is also BS he could have done it .. the tag was placed even if tobi teleported away Minato would be there with another rasengan and another and another ... Kishi just made him do something different
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  4. #604
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    problem of not killing tobi is also BS he could have done it .. the tag was placed even if tobi teleported away Minato would be there with another rasengan and another and another ... Kishi just made him do something different
    Yes because Tobi could not turn intangible and make Minato's attack irrelevant right?

  5. #605
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Yes because Tobi could not turn intangible and make Minato's attack irrelevant right?
    well he didn't that's why Minato was able to ransengan him in the first place and kunai him and use taht to get rid of Kyuubi in the second ... Minato is so fast that Tobi couldn't turn his intagibili in time - that was the essence of that fight
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  6. #606
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Who's stronger 1st or 4th Hokage

    this is a very tough question, the two obvious answers are the 1st and the 4th

    if you would have asked me about 100 chapters ago i would have said the 4th pretty easily, just based on all of the mythology type discussion of him by the kakashi and jarayai as well as others,

    but when this whole madara vs hashirama story started really unfolding, and many said the 1st was the strongest shinobi in history , it is pretty hard to argue that point as well

    however the ET version of the first was defeated by an aging , out of his prime sarutobi , so honestly

    it really is an impossible question to answer, but this is a GREAT THREAD

    i love discussion like this

  7. #607
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Xiraiya's Avatar
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    Re: Who's stronger 1st or 4th Hokage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    this is a very tough question, the two obvious answers are the 1st and the 4th

    if you would have asked me about 100 chapters ago i would have said the 4th pretty easily, just based on all of the mythology type discussion of him by the kakashi and jarayai as well as others,
    but when this whole madara vs hashirama story started really unfolding, and many said the 1st was the strongest shinobi in history , it is pretty hard to argue that point as well
    however the ET version of the first was defeated by an aging , out of his prime sarutobi , so honestly
    it really is an impossible question to answer, but this is a GREAT THREAD
    i love discussion like this
    I think the problem is Rinnegan Madara has thrown off the power scale of everything, it seems to be implied that he only acquired his new eyes right before death, if we go with that then at the very least we can assume he wasn't spamming Hashirama's Jutsu's or throwing Meteors everywhere during their fight. Though I believe he had that fully formed Susano'o, so the power wouldn't be *that* different since acquiring Rinnegan, in any case we can assume Hashirama was roughly on a similar scale to Madara.

    But that's the problem, we saw both Hashirama and his Brother fight before and we saw some impressive Jutsu but nothing close to the scale of now, though we also saw old man 3rd take them both on and even find a way to win against the both of them at once, he wasn't called the God of Shinobi for nothing, I believe that going by what the Manga implies, we can assume the 3rd was OP as all hell in his Prime and likely on the same level or greater than Hashirama and Madara, the Databooks did say he had a counter for each Mangekyo Sharingan jutsu, so I guess that's that.

    The issue is, he himself regarded Minato as the best to have ever been produced in Konoha, we still haven't seen everything he could do, and it was also implied that sacrificing himself to seal the Kyuubi wasn't even necessary but he did it anyway for the future's sake.

    Anyway, my point is I believe Hashirama, Hiruzen and Minato could very well be all around the same level of power, ultimately.
    Kishi throwing continuity out of the window with Madara means they were all probably far stronger than we thought or saw.

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  9. #608
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    Re: Who's stronger 1st or 4th Hokage

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiraiya View Post
    I think the problem is Rinnegan Madara has thrown off the power scale of everything, it seems to be implied that he only acquired his new eyes right before death, if we go with that then at the very least we can assume he wasn't spamming Hashirama's Jutsu's or throwing Meteors everywhere during their fight. Though I believe he had that fully formed Susano'o, so the power wouldn't be *that* different since acquiring Rinnegan, in any case we can assume Hashirama was roughly on a similar scale to Madara.

    But that's the problem, we saw both Hashirama and his Brother fight before and we saw some impressive Jutsu but nothing close to the scale of now, though we also saw old man 3rd take them both on and even find a way to win against the both of them at once, he wasn't called the God of Shinobi for nothing, I believe that going by what the Manga implies, we can assume the 3rd was OP as all hell in his Prime and likely on the same level or greater than Hashirama and Madara, the Databooks did say he had a counter for each Mangekyo Sharingan jutsu, so I guess that's that.

    The issue is, he himself regarded Minato as the best to have ever been produced in Konoha, we still haven't seen everything he could do, and it was also implied that sacrificing himself to seal the Kyuubi wasn't even necessary but he did it anyway for the future's sake.

    Anyway, my point is I believe Hashirama, Hiruzen and Minato could very well be all around the same level of power, ultimately.
    Kishi throwing continuity out of the window with Madara means they were all probably far stronger than we thought or saw.
    I agree but why are the current kages sooooo indescribably weak in comparation is what gets to me abit.

  10. #609
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Franckie's Avatar
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    Re: Who's stronger 1st or 4th Hokage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    I agree but why are the current kages sooooo indescribably weak in comparation is what gets to me abit.
    Because current Madara is fighting two kages past their prime, acquired two major upgrades after he fought Hashirama (Rinnegan + Mokuton), nigh-immortal, and nigh-invincible?

  11. #610
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Hashirama was the most powerful from what we are getting from kishi recently


  12. #611
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Silver_Archer's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    I sincerely doubt Kishimoto ever intended to put in someone as overpowered as Edo Tensei Madara in the manga when he was writing the characters of the Third or the Fourth Hokage in the early parts of the manga. Hell, when Sandaime was fighting Orochimaru, both of them were probably supposed to be among the strongest characters in the manga. This was before even a mention of the Mangekyou Sharingan, let alone Susanoo, Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, Rinnegan, Izanagi, Izanami, the Rinnegan conveniently emerging from the Sharingan, or Shodaime's Mokuton Ninjutsu that inconveniently makes everything go uber through cellular infusion.

    Trying to compare the hokage becomes incredibly difficult because there are essentially two separate Naruto universes. If we consider the amount of raw power elite shinobi were expected to have as a function of time, in the beginning, it was pretty much a very steady but gradual upward curve. With the time-skip, that upward curve began to rise more steeply, but it still looked like something that could be seen to fit in with the earlier curve. But all the recent upgrades that have been tossed into the show over the last couple of years or so have resulted in a new curve that goes up so sharply, that it literally divides Naruto into two different universes; the shinobi universe and the deux ex machina pileup universe. The second, the third, the fourth, and even the fifth hokage are relics of the shinobi universe, while Hashirama and Madara are pretty much the flagbearers of the deux ex machina pileup universe. The problem is, there are interconnections between these two universes because of the Sandaime, and so if one tries to use transitivity to connect the power levels in these two distinct phases, we end up with a very convoluted sort of Condorcet Paradox.

  13. #612
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Well, apparently madara's susanoo was like that before getting the rinnengan considering the kage's wondered just how hashirama fought it. If this is the case then we should expect sasuke to pull of a similar susanoo soon enough.

    Anyways, I think the manga has shown way too much that hashirama was overwhelmingly superior to any other kage by now. I mean, he was feared as the strongest and he was chosen by a number of clans to lead them. We saw minato fight and nothing he showed suggests he has the sheer firepower to change the landscape as hashirama could. Hashirama was in fact the strongest, I don't see how else the manga could possibly make it clearer by now. Does hashirama have to turn into god and create life and be almost immortal (which he could and was).

  14. #613
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Didn't he already have the power to create life? (trees and such)

  15. #614
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Hashirama is easily the strongest of all the kage that has existed. Minato is the deadliest, but I don't think he could hurt Hashirama easily since Hashirama can heal. Hashirama is the true definition of overpowered, ET Madara doesn't count since he has Hashirama's power, Rin'negan, and is an ET. He can change the landscape at his whim, he can come up with a powerful offense, great defense, and attack opponents hundreds of meters away. He can even make an enemy go to sleep without them suspecting anything other than an unusual plant. Madara could have been superior to Hashirama, but thanks to his healing ability, it would mean nothing.

  16. #615
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    Re: Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

    Hashirama is clearly the strongest 'overall' at this junction of the story. It was believed that Hiruzen was the strongest, but this was way back in part 1, where as of now the story is completely suitable to Madara and Hashirama's importance and powers to the story..

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