Who is the strongest hokage in the history of Konoha

[matsemann08]

Tsunade has no chance to even compare to the first four hokages.
I have no idea about Tobirama, we don't really know much about him.
If the first has fought the power that Edo-Madara has today I'll say he's the strongest.

The third is a tricky one, (you can even put Edo-Shodaime in this group) the third seems pretty weak if you base it on the only fight we've seen him in. But the manga was on a different scale back then. If Hiruzen was alive and fought in today's manga, he'd probably have way crazier jutsus and own a lot of people, I'd say he would have been even or above the current kages. And that's not even taking into account that Hiruzen would be an old man. A young Hirzuen in his prime would be a sight to behold.

Minato I think would be weaker than the first. We haven't really seen anything from Minato other than his insane speed and rasengan. Although based on what we've heard people in the Naruto world says, he was truly a legendary hokage. I bet the real Madara with Sharingan/Rinnegan would have some kind of counter to his speed. I don't really know.

[Zehahaha]

Sharingan is useless in front of Hiraishin, at least his ability to read movements, simply because Hiraishin is a S/T technique, not a Shunshin no Jutsu to begin with. If the Sharingan cannot follow, the Rinnegan cannot too.

[Zsych]

The whole thing with Minato is he can super speed in and slit your throat (and might have some more dimensional jutsu). Hashirama had epic power, and Hiruzen had epic knowledge.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

So according to the latest info in the manga the strongest was Hashirama the first Hokage. If he managed to take down that strong Madara, then how strong was he?
I would say that Minato should be the second strongest after Hashirama, but I can't decide who might be stronger among Tobirama and Hiruzen as we didn't see much from both of them. So I would say it should be a tie. And Tsunade seems to be the weakest among them.

[Raizen]

Hiruzen was considered a "god among shinobi" and revered as the most powerful among ALL KAGES.
Minato is considered the greatest ninja of the leaf and a rare talent as well as unsurpassed by MANY powerful ninjas.
Before all these grand relevations, I placed Minato and Hiruzen at the same level, there would be no clear winner between the 2.
Right below these 2, I had placed Harashima and Tobirama, then WAY WAY WAY WAyyyyyyyyy below them, is tsunade and all the other kages LOL

With the new grandiose hype, I would now still place Harashima on the scale of Minato and Hiruzen.
It seems each kage excel in a certain field compared to the others.
Harashima= grand scale techniques/superb healing
Tobirama= well rounded with mastery of water and ST. Assumed to be around harashima's level since they're brothers
Hiruzen= "god among shinobis". Able to counter any justsus and is said to know all jutsus of konoha
Minato= flash-speed, Hiraishin, can analyze dire situations calmly, sealing master, considered unsurpassed

To me it goes
Minato/Harashima/Hiruzen => Tobirama >>>>> Tsuande/ALL other kages
It seems Konoha's first 4 Kages are completely on a different level than other kages

[kkck]

I don't see any particular reason for the first kages to be so immensely superior to the other kages. If anything the scenario should be along the lines of:

1.- hashirama
WAAAAAAY below him
...
....
...
2.-The rest, the difference in strength between them is imperceptible to hashirama/madara.

I mean, what has minato ever done to suggest he is so immensely superior to the current kages? Was he so overwhelming against tobi? Not really IMO. Was he flabbergasting against the raikage? I sincerely doubt it, it actually seemed close between the two of them. Did minato have biju level chakra? I don't recall anything of the sort although it was at least high enough to use hiraishin on his own. And to be fair, even hiruzen being anywhere near that is a stretch so far. Clearly he had skills but we also did not see hashirama do any of the stuff it was said he could do (perhaps because of the closed space he was fighting in). To be perfectly fair, hiruzen at the time did not even seem like a proper match for the tsuchikage(who even in his old age has pretty much been the most impressive kage so far).

More importantly, I don't think tsunade is that far below any of the other kages for that matter. I mean, why would she? Tsunade is by all intents and purposes immortal in battle and we have factual information that prove beyond reasonable doubt that she is without question physically the strongest person in the world (madara stated her punches were indeed more powerful than raikages but slower). There really is not reason to assume tsunade is not on the level with the other kages at large.

[marshall313]

Konan prepared a 600 billion explodng tag to fight tobi, itachi used sasuke to kill tobi as his last ditch effort, while minato kick tobi's ass with just his strategy, hiraishin and rasengan. If it wasn't an overwhelming then i don't know what it is.

For Raikage, minato is unsurpassed. He himself admitted that he never surpassed minato even if he has a bijuu level of chakra, a powerful taijutsu, and a strong body and yet he even admired minato as if no one can defeat him.

[Raizen]

Third beat Edo Tensei that weren't fighting the way they did. If the First fought the way Madara claimed, then the Third would have stood NO chance at all.

Assumption. Major assumption!

The manga itself states Edo First fought nothing like the actual First, which makes sense.

Never stated in the manga

Though to be honest, I can't see Minato beating White Snake Orochimaru. He'd definitely be able to beat normal Orochimaru though.

A nice sealing technique would end oro

---------- Post added at 01:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

That's what you say, but it was actually the point where Ee was at his most vulnerable and clearly done on purpose because Minato left his kunia behind in the exact same way he did against Tobi.

Exactly! He waited until raikage was close to the point where he couldn't react anymore to use that move. Had Minato hiraishin earlier, raikage wouldn't be in such a vulnerable state.
That situation not only shows Minato's battle inttelect but also his god-like reflexes and speed

[kkck]

Konan prepared a 600 billion explodng tag to fight tobi, itachi used sasuke to kill tobi as his last ditch effort, while minato kick tobi's ass with just his strategy, hiraishin and rasengan. If it wasn't an overwhelming then i don't know what it is.

For Raikage, minato is unsurpassed. He himself admitted that he never surpassed minato even if he has a bijuu level of chakra, a powerful taijutsu, and a strong body and yet he even admired minato as if no one can defeat him.

?
I would question whether minato kicked his ass to some extent. I never thought of the whole thing as minato actually kicking tobi's ass but rather tobi not bothering to fight anymore. I mean, why didn't he use izanagi back them? That is a huge difference to say the least, one that would utterly negate the hit tobi got. Even if we assume izanagi was not an option, then we are simply talking about a weaker tobi. I am not saying minato wasn't insanely good at his thing, just that it does not seem like he had anything on hashirama nor anything that places his significantly above any of the current kages. Minato's hiraishin was an insane trick to say the least, one that gives him an insane advantage, however I would argue it is not something that would allow him to match hashirama.

[Raizen]

Well, madara seeing minato is not quite important to the point I made, mostly because a big part of it is based on my own opinion and the point does not actually require for madara to have seen minato. What I tried to say was:

Madara has first hand experience fighting hashirama
Madara has firsthand experience fighting the 5 kages.
Now, madara pretty much stated not a single one of the 5 kages even comes close to good old hashirama which is a huge statement considering who madara is.
Now, if we take madara's words then we would have to assume that if minato is equal or greater than hashirama then he would have to be in general a lot stronger than each of the kages at the very least. We saw minato, we saw his moves, based on that it does not quite make sense IMO that he was in any form or context so overwhelmingly superior to any of the 5 kages. I could see him being the strongest kage when compared to the current ones however I just can't see the guy being overwhelmingly strong enough for the difference between him and the current kages to be as large as it was implied to be between hashirama and the 5 current kages.

"Overwhelming strength" can also be broken up into specific contents. It could mean the levels of attacks, the level of skills, or how quickly harshiima can kill any of the current kages.
If you look at is that way, I can say Minato has "overwhelming strength" compared to the current kages because I can see him killing any of the current kages pretty flawlessly. That's my view on it at least. Hope that makes sense lol

[kkck]

That said, we don't know what minato's speed actually was. All we have seen him do is hiraishin around the battlefield. He was probably pretty fast himself but ultimately every relevant speed feat is a direct consequence of hiraishin.

ALso, as far as the battle with raikage goes we have no idea of how it would have ended. To what extent could have minato hurt the raikage with a kunai when he had his lightning armor on? Even a chidori did not get that far to be fair.

[Raizen]

?
I would question whether minato kicked his ass to some extent. I never thought of the whole thing as minato actually kicking tobi's ass but rather tobi not bothering to fight anymore. I mean, why didn't he use izanagi back them? That is a huge difference to say the least, one that would utterly negate the hit tobi got. Even if we assume izanagi was not an option, then we are simply talking about a weaker tobi. I am not saying minato wasn't insanely good at his thing, just that it does not seem like he had anything on hashirama nor anything that places his significantly above any of the current kages. Minato's hiraishin was an insane trick to say the least, one that gives him an insane advantage, however I would argue it is not something that would allow him to match hashirama.

Tobi ran because he was injured and there was nothing more that he could do.
Even if he used izanagi, what can he do to Minato? Even after using his fastest attack, the warp, Minato still managed to escape during a sneak attack.
Tobi had the 9 tails forcibly removed from his control, got injured, pride broken, and his plan failed. If he stayed any longer, things would have been worse lol
But in all honesty, tobi looked down on the 4 kages during the summit without a single worry. I don't know how you can say that was a weaker tobi.

[kkck]

"Overwhelming strength" can also be broken up into specific contents. It could mean the levels of attacks, the level of skills, or how quickly harshiima can kill any of the current kages.
If you look at is that way, I can say Minato has "overwhelming strength" compared to the current kages because I can see him killing any of the current kages pretty flawlessly. That's my view on it at least. Hope that makes sense lol

Yes but the other kages are also quite good at their thing to say the least. For example, minato had the speed thing going on for him but he was seriously lacking in the firepower department. Raikage had much better defense and offense than minato, the tsuchikage can fly and has insane offense, the mizukage has acid which can even melt susanoo and she can release it freely into the air and who knows how many ninjutsu she has (and for all we know her acid had can melt the hiraishin tags), tsunade wouldn't even flinch when stabbed by a kunai or even from a rasengan, gaara has his ultimate defense along with the ability to turn any battlefield into HIS battlefield. Minato winning against the kages is a perfectly realistic scenario however winning flawlessly? Kages have their own thing at which they are awesome too.

[Raizen]

That said, we don't know what minato's speed actually was. All we have seen him do is hiraishin around the battlefield. He was probably pretty fast himself but ultimately every relevant speed feat is a direct consequence of hiraishin.

ALso, as far as the battle with raikage goes we have no idea of how it would have ended. To what extent could have minato hurt the raikage with a kunai when he had his lightning armor on? Even a chidori did not get that far to be fair.

1. His speed can be seen during the flashback against tobi. He was able to rescue Kushina right under the nose of the 9 tails and tobi and move on top of a tree extremely far away. Also during the gaiden, etc. There are many instances and inferences where Minato's base speed has been shown/stated to be godly

2. jdw and I actually talked about this before. In the DB and manga, it is stated that if the same element clashes, the stronger one wins. We can pretty much assume the armor is of higher class than chidori. Thus, the piercing power of chidori was nullified or weakened. Therefore, using the chidori feat as evidence fails. There is nothing to indicate that attack Minato was about to befall on raikage would not have seriously injure him

[kkck]

Tobi ran because he was injured and there was nothing more that he could do.
Even if he used izanagi, what can he do to Minato? Even after using his fastest attack, the warp, Minato still managed to escape during a sneak attack.
Tobi had the 9 tails forcibly removed from his control, got injured, pride broken, and his plan failed. If he stayed any longer, things would have been worse lol
But in all honesty, tobi looked down on the 4 kages during the summit without a single worry. I don't know how you can say that was a weaker tobi.

I said it was either a weaker tobi or one not willing to fight all the way. Ultimately, nothing is better than izanagi to create an opening to say the least so why didn't he? Its not like he is short on eyes or he was using his other eye.

Tobi did not go to the summit to fight, he went there to start the war. I don't think that says much on how he thought he would compare with the kages.