Healthy Nagato vs 'Healthy' Itachi

[KingOfNight]

but he still managed to blind them by getting in their blind spot. Or if you want, Itachi could just summon Susano'o and take out those summons. They can't absorb chakra or do anything, especially the multiplying dogs, so they're sealed.

Only to summon more...

Er, anyone can react to someone jumping, which is precisely what Naruto did. He didn't go for hand-to-hand combat, Naruto just jumped and got caught by Nagato. If anything, he should be able to react to that. Hell, even Kabuto controlling Nagato should have been able to react to that. Once again, you can't use Naruto vs. ET Itachi and Naruto vs. ET Nagato to compare, as Naruto acted differently.

You should also know that the combination is useless if he doesn't get the real Itachi.

He didn't allow Naruto to engage in a Taijutsu battle wit him. He was able to react to Naruto easily unlike Kisame who got smashed against the wall. Then we can't just assume that Itachi is too fast for Nagato to capture.

Why would he not get the "real" Itachi ?

My point is that he was unable to take down either shinobi, and Raikage only because Raikage used a move that allowed Sasuke to touch him. Itachi can be untouchable if he plays his cards right.

Why would Nagato launch himself at Susano'o? That'd just allow Itachi to stab him with the Sword or use the Magatama (?) necklace.

Susano'o would protect ITachi from Shinra Tensei. Though, it'd probably be a loss due to Itachi bein off the battlefield kilometers away. Shinra Tensei without a hard landing won't keep Itachi down long enough.

There is no untouchable character in the series with the exception of Minato. Naruto could touch Itachi and so can Sasuke so he isn't untouchable.

He could dodge. The Susanoo doesn't stab from everywhere you know, it's like a normal sword but with sealing bonus.

If it kept people with stronger body down, it should do so to Itachi. Also how would Susanoo protect Itachi from getting his bone crushed after being blasted such huge distance ?

But the toads did hit and slid across the ground. And those jounins did hit something, probably pretty hard. It's deadly based on what happens, not necessarily because of hte move itself.

That one toad (Gamahiro I think ?) Went into the sea, what could he have hit there that K.O'ed him ? It's a dangerous mover regardless. Hitting something is more like a bonus.

why would he not utilize their power and risk it failing? Especially when a chapter later he lectures Naruto on doin everything on his own?

If he could, he would. He always does things on his own no matter what he says.

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

@M3J

And i think you do not understand how said shield works... That shield changes properties to react to any attack trown at him and makes said attack inefective... If anything ST would bounce off that mirror and hit Nagato in his face just like it happened with 6 tails and normal ST...Then asuming he get's trown back it becomes irrelevant as that would NOT damage Itachi that is chilling inside Susano...

Susano (with no mirror) could take a WAY more powerfull attack (kirin) and be just fine... Oh and yes it was more powefull as a lighting bolt would be concentrated on 1 point right on top of Susano compared to a ST that had its force spread out in a 360 degrees angle... I am sure as hell that little worm would not protect shit from a Kirin like it did to that Super ST...

Itachi does not even need his mirror to survive this...

What you're saying is completely wrong. The Yata mirror is endowed with the five nature elements and changes it's characteristics depending on the attack to cancel it out. ST is a none element Jutsu, it can't be blocked or repelled. The only way to stop it is by generating an equal opposing force. Itachi can't do that. Kirin is not even half as powerful as ST, the whole concept of it being "way stronger" is made up.

Itachi has absolutely no way of countering ST.

[Uchiha_Blood]

@Uchiha_Blood

Emm no.. The entire MOUNTAIN:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/391/9

it was a spiral like mountain that Kirin totaly anihilated.

The temple thing was on top of it:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/383/14

This right here is the moutain:
http://nt.languor.org/sasuhina/t/img/739.jpg


In the end i hope you know the diferene between a focused attack and an attack that is spread out right? ST is not going to focus all its power on 1 point like Kirin... Its going to have its energy spread out in a 360 degrees pattern... Even if the ST can generate more force having its force disapated in a 360 degrees angle is going to end up generating way less force on Susano then Kirin as Kirin is going to have all its force focused on Susano.

If it destroyed the entire mountain, why Sasuke was still standing on the temple floor?
Why the temple wasn't obliterated if it was on top of a mountain?
Other than that, unless the Uchihas erected a wall taller than a mountain that was only a small hill, which wasn't even destroyed

EDIT:
you can see in recent chapters how the temple was unharmed, and the only thing that was destroyed was the roof both Itachi and Sasuke were standing on

[xXan]

@Uchiha_Blood

That was the rubble left after the explosion man...
Look here:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/391/13
Look from Itachi's perspective and the other surounding mountains... They are at ground level.
More indication here:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/392/7
Look at the mountain on the right (top panel).

Then over here it becomes damn obvious even to a blind man(well not really but i had to use a fancy word lol):
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/392/8
Again top panel.

You see in this last link the 2 mountains? That is what was anihilated...

Oh and in recent chapters its not the same place lol... In recent chapters you have something in Konoha's edge... ITS IN KONOHA:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/618/6
Now unless you belive those mountains where in Konoha... Seriously... You can even see the outside wall here (middle right panel):
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/618/7

[Uchiha_Blood]

^ I totally thought they were the same temple you're right

Still the damage isn't nearly as big as you think:
see here, the scale isn't that different from this one.
Kirin seems basically twice as big as a Boss-size summon ( its effect at least ), still nowhere comparable to a village.
When Tsunade summoned Naruto to tell him Jiraiya died you can see how Gamabunta is even smaller than the Hokage residence ( if I remember right )

[xXan]

@Uchiha_Blood

What you are missing is the fact that i am not claiming Kirin can exert more force then ST... I am stating Kirin can exert more force on a point. The entire blast force is focused on a point just above Susano. ST would have its force spread out all around Nagato and only a small part of said force would actualy hit Susano. Those buildings that got owned would be nothign to even 1 swing of a Boss level summon (not blow them all away, but crumble anything the sword would hit).
In essence Susano taking that blast that was able to blow up that mountain (even if not that big) its enough to show it can take ST. Now if Itachi puts his mirror in front its not even anything of notice.

[Uchiha_Blood]

@Uchiha_Blood

What you are missing is the fact that i am not claiming Kirin can exert more force then ST... I am stating Kirin can exert more force on a point. The entire blast force is focused on a point just above Susano. ST would have its force spread out all around Nagato and only a small part of said force would actualy hit Susano. Those buildings that got owned would be nothign to even 1 swing of a Boss level summon (not blow them all away, but crumble anything the sword would hit).
In essence Susano taking that blast that was able to blow up that mountain (even if not that big) its enough to show it can take ST. Now if Itachi puts his mirror in front its not even anything of notice.

Without considering the fact that Nagato can direct his Shinra Tensei ( as such he would be able to focus all the strenght on one point ), even the "small part" ( which isn't small, since Itachi would be in front of him ) would KO Itachi since, even if his shield would protect him, he still would be launched for god knows how much distance and his Susano'o would get crushed from the impact.
The shield isn't omnidirectional, and if it couldn't completely stop Kirin I'm 100% sure it wouldn't stop Shinra Tensei

[M3J]

@M3J

And i think you do not understand how said shield works... That shield changes properties to react to any attack trown at him and makes said attack inefective... If anything ST would bounce off that mirror and hit Nagato in his face just like it happened with 6 tails and normal ST...Then asuming he get's trown back it becomes irrelevant as that would NOT damage Itachi that is chilling inside Susano...

Susano (with no mirror) could take a WAY more powerfull attack (kirin) and be just fine... Oh and yes it was more powefull as a lighting bolt would be concentrated on 1 point right on top of Susano compared to a ST that had its force spread out in a 360 degrees angle... I am sure as hell that little worm would not protect shit from a Kirin like it did to that Super ST...

Itachi does not even need his mirror to survive this...

You can't compare kirin to Shinra Tensei. That's like comparing kage bunshin to Hiraishin.... Kirin is different from Shinra Tensei, kirin is an actual physical attack while Shinra Tensei looks like a force that can push someone back.

Only to summon more...

There's a limit to that.

He didn't allow Naruto to engage in a Taijutsu battle wit him. He was able to react to Naruto easily unlike Kisame who got smashed against the wall. Then we can't just assume that Itachi is too fast for Nagato to capture.

Why would he not get the "real" Itachi ?

Nagato? No, Kabuto chose to go the smart route and catch Naruto so he could pull out Naruto's soul. Nagato did not need Minato's reaction time or even Hidan's reaction time to react to that or catch Naruto. And bad idea to compare it to Kisame since Kisame was not only in Samehada that wasn't as fast, but Naruto's speedblitz came out of nowhere. I don't even think he speedblitzed Nagato. And we can assume Itachi's fast enough. if Nagato absorbs Itachi's Sharingan and makes Itachi's eyes normal, then I can believe Nagato can capture Itachi. However with Sharingan, Itachi's extremely hard to capture or touch.

Bunshins. Itachi can use bunshins.

There is no untouchable character in the series with the exception of Minato. Naruto could touch Itachi and so can Sasuke so he isn't untouchable.

He could dodge. The Susanoo doesn't stab from everywhere you know, it's like a normal sword but with sealing bonus.

If it kept people with stronger body down, it should do so to Itachi. Also how would Susanoo protect Itachi from getting his bone crushed after being blasted such huge distance ?

They don't have to be entirely untouchable. And Minato was touched by Tobi quite a few times.

If he can dodge. Itachi can lay a trap in which Nagato can't dodge for some reason. Impair his vision, stick him in place, or something.

Stronger body? What?

Because it'd take most of the blow?

That one toad (Gamahiro I think ?) Went into the sea, what could he have hit there that K.O'ed him ? It's a dangerous mover regardless. Hitting something is more like a bonus.

SOmething on the ground of the water? Maybe he landed on the ground of the land hard? They all landed on the ground hard and flew back at least a few meters.

Probably so, but hitting something is where most of hte damage comes from, not necessarily from Shinra Tensei.

If he could, he would. He always does things on his own no matter what he says.

I doubt he'd have done it on his own after being Edo Tensei'd, anymore.

[ninjabot]

Not only that was a body that needed chakra transmitting from long distance ( Deva had to come close to Nagato to use Chibaku Tensei, just to make an example ) but the prep time was him looking at Konoha, preaching about him being a god and then blast it to pieces.
And crow bushins are easily dispelled by Asura Realm abilities, or a lesser Shinra Tensei.

No, that's not it. Not completely atleast. If there literally was a time lag based on the distance then every Shinra Tensei he performed would require prep time. Hell, every jutsu ANY Path used would come with lag. Not as much as the citybuster but the chakra would have to travel first. The chakra receptors naturally receive chakra from Nagato to have their own chakra reserves, but when something big needs to be done he likely ups the amount within, using his own huge chakra reserve. That's what takes time. Beefing up a powerful technique. He had to get closer to Nagato to perform Chibaku Tensei because his chakra was dwindling and he needed to power up. The lower his own chakra becomes, the harder it becomes to keep the other bodies working efficiently.

[xXan]

@KingOfNight

What you're saying is completely wrong. The Yata mirror is endowed with the five nature elements and changes it's characteristics depending on the attack to cancel it out. ST is a none element Jutsu, it can't be blocked or repelled. The only way to stop it is by generating an equal opposing force. Itachi can't do that. Kirin is not even half as powerful as ST, the whole concept of it being "way stronger" is made up.

Itachi has absolutely no way of countering ST.

It stops anything dead in its tracks, Hydra:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/392/10

Also it reflects anything:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/393/9
Take note just before that attack Sasuke used kunai's + exploding tags...Physical objects with NO elemental atribute... So i am damn sure i am not completly wrong.

@Uchiha_Blood

Without considering the fact that Nagato can direct his Shinra Tensei ( as such he would be able to focus all the strenght on one point ), even the "small part" ( which isn't small, since Itachi would be in front of him ) would KO Itachi since, even if his shield would protect him, he still would be launched for god knows how much distance and his Susano'o would get crushed from the impact.
The shield isn't omnidirectional, and if it couldn't completely stop Kirin I'm 100% sure it wouldn't stop Shinra Tensei

There is no evidence Nagato can focus its force down to 1 point. He can chose the arc but nowhere it is showed that he can focus the attack force and condense the power.
He can choose the force behind ST but asuming he will use the most powerfull one he can't make the arc smaller and use more power because of that... Then again if you have any evidence of it...
Oh and you think Susano would get busted from landing? Oh please the boss summons only had broken bones... There is no way Susano get's busted from that... Itachi is more then safe... That little WORM from Tsunade could protect the people of Konoha and have them get out of the ST like nothing happen... Now unless you feel like telling me that little worm can provide better protection....
Oh and the mirror was not used on Kirin. The mirror does not pop instantly and the mirror would need to be moved above. Itachi can just summon Susano before a lighting bolt hits the ground but nothing more. Oh and Susano did completly stop Kirin but the Kirin that would have got to Itachi... The rest of the AOE is irrelevant. Its like you having a shield that can take a nuke, the city where you are would get leveled but that is not relevant to the power of said shield to protect you.
Also the shield does not need to be omnidirectional when the attack is frontal...

@M3J

You can't compare kirin to Shinra Tensei. That's like comparing kage bunshin to Hiraishin.... Kirin is different from Shinra Tensei, kirin is an actual physical attack while Shinra Tensei looks like a force that can push someone back.

The hell i can't... If Susano can take a focused attack that can blow up a mountain then it can take the landing from getting pussed back from that bloody ST... That is asuming Susano would even be moved back(that special mirror)... Not only that ST can be rezisted and have the force sent back at the source... That mirror is going to do wonders when ST hits it...

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

Didn't Kishi already show us that is takes an Immortal Itachi, Naruto and Killer Bee together to defeat a crippled Nagato? Nagato wins very easily. I don't see any single shinobi defeating Nagato...maybe besides Hashirama.

[xXan]

@GomuGomu_Getsuga

Emm that was also an immortal Nagato, not just Itachi... Not only that Nagato has his mind wiped and was controled by Kabuto AND his mobility was bad... Here he has 100% mobility.

[Prince Sasuke]

I thought the anmie made it pretty clear, Nagato 'mobility' problem came from lack of shoes, not from legs being injured.

[Notak]

I think the only thing Itachi would have a problem with is Chibaku Tensei. It took the combined efforts of Bee Naruto and Itachi to stop that thing. He could possibly stop it by using Izanami on Nagato. I still don't see what Nagato could do against the Sharingan's genjutsu.

All the paths of Pain would probably kick Itachi's butt though

(Haven't read the other posts though)