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That's true. However we need remember that it was also Pain who was the leader of Akatsuki <even though he was under strings of Tobi > From his speeches I acknowledge he would be great as "mastermind", he just mind-f*cked Naruto in his battle with him, and if not for Yondaime Hokage appearing in Naruto's mind, whether Nagato would put Kyuubi out or not, he had the needs to be the one. Kishi just didn't make it that way : ( <BUT Nagato is better of the villain as Tobi.. shit, anyone is better than Tobi if it means for "villain" type thingy >Originally Posted by elitefox
Exactly, man, exactly.Originally Posted by jm
Alterno, as I somewhat agree with you comment on Pain, the thing is: Kishi didn't want to make it far more "serious" between Nagato and Tobi : ( We can only speculate how it would be cooler.
2/10. Madara botched his leadership of the Uchiha Clan so badly they preferred Hashirama to him; took the Kyuubi to fight a man who can control Bijuu; lost the Kyuubi, his greatest power, for no real gain; couldn't get any revenge on Konoha until Itachi offered him an opportunity and olive branch; has squandered the majority of his elite underlings; has the entire ninja world gunning for him right now; and worse of all, got blackmailed by Kabuto.
Oh, and how can we forget other things like while he has the power to teleport anywhere, has a 1HKO bijuu haymaker, and mind control, yet depends on everyone else to do squat for him. Madara's character reminds me of this guy:
The character's only saving grace is his Tobi persona.
Last edited by M3J; August 17, 2010 at 11:19 PM.
I think that Kishimoto didn't know how great Nagato was a villain, If he is planning to make Madara a Jinchuuriki, although I don't think he will be a ten tails Jinchuuriki, but a he will seal most of them inside him and maybe create something new, a new bijuu from the other 7 or 8. However he will have to do a lot to impress us with his new power, something beyond what Pain offered.
I think Pain is by far the most powerful and interesting villain that I've ever seen in the story of manga, I can't think right know of one more intriguing, However in terms of which villain I hate more, Kishimoto surely did an awesome job with the masked man, a.k.a Uchiha Madara, for sure people want see Madara biting the dust.
As mastermind, he fails in the execution of his plans, as I said before.
this guy is the ultimate villan for a manga that has comradiary as it's theme.a person who does what he does for the hell of it,he won't be happy with"his"peace either.this is lex luthor of narutoverse or even the joker"heath ledger R.I.P."from batman,he does this for supreriority to his fellow warriors.just like a worm too,never leaves the yard/ground they were born in.....
Hmm after his statement about beeing the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan I'm really torn apart about my opinion on him...
On the one hand I like the story he told Sasuke, he has a serious background and quite a cool story to tell. On the other hand it kinda feels funny that his background is from so long ago and that it still seems to speed him up though.
Also, what's kinda strange since that's pretty usual for a villain, I somewhat dislike how he stands behind everything. It's just a bit too much... so far Naruto always was about persons trying to deal with the circumstances but he instead created almost all of those circumstances until now, it's slightly annoying.
I would say Madara is 10, but then Sasuke would be 10+ because (my guess!!!) he is tricking him by acting in someway as his alley (I'm sure now that he isn't evil at all, but he's working alone, playing the madman for Konoha's sake the way Itachi wanted and as a good ninja should do). But then Itachi would be 11! Because probably Madara didn't say the truth and Itachi wasn't the one who killed the clan, but he found a way to make Madara spare Sasuke and to drive the last in the right direction, going around Madara's thinking!
I think there's a lot more than it seems in Kishi's mind at the moment! He as never been explicit! And even if my guess about Sasuke and Itachi is wrong, Madara is gonna be ruled by someone in reasoning, and obviously that's not going to be Naruto (in strength yes! in thinking, no way)!
He is veeeery good, but not the best.
Last edited by OQO; September 16, 2010 at 06:39 AM.
Madara would a 10 in terms of being a mastermind in my book.
I mean, the entire Narutoverse would have zero clues to his plans if he hadn't revealed them. Not only that but the entire Narutoverse would have no idea who Tobi is (except Itachi) if he didn't tell them which makes Itachi the second best character in the Narutoverse according to me lol.
I would rate Sasuke somewhere around 1 or 3 for being dumb enough to go against the very things his brother fought for and for letting hatred cloud his judgement. Oh, and also for getting used like a tool by Madara.
Last edited by israfeel; September 16, 2010 at 08:32 PM.
As a mastermind, I'd rate Madara somewhere near a 10.
Ability wise, he's super broken, but not without weakpoints that can bring him to his knees with the right circumstances. Madara isn't quite as strategically sound as Bleach's Aizen, though he seems smarter than Reborn's Byakuran.
At this point however, I still can't tell whether or not Madara or Sasuke is going to be Part 2's primary villain.
According to Madara himself and those around him, mainly Zetsu, everything seems to be going as planned. And if we look at what Madara has accomplished, he has basically checked off quite a few things off of his list. Such as stealing Hashirama's power and faking his own death, creating and utilizing Akatsuki to capture the Bijuu, attacking Konoha for an unknown reason, basically being the Mizukage, killing off his clan, having Sasuke by his side, obtaining military info. on Kumo, and now taking back his Rinnegan. So far he seems to be very pleased with all of his accomplishments.
Madara is true mastermind. His failures are just part of his plans.
If that is the case all losers are masterminds because anyone can easily say they failed on purpose.
But not all of those losers have plans that revolve around them losing. And not all of those loser's who DO have plans, succeed with them.
The proof of their mastery would be in how well their plans pay off. A complete failure of one's plan would mean that everything went wrong, and you never got what you planned to get in the first place.
We find out that Madara fought Shodai to gain his power, and sure enough, he did. His plan, despite the risk and the sacrifice, worked. It didn't only work, but it left his enemies with a false sense of victory. As they spent their lives with a false sense of security, Madara has already accumulated everything necessary for the Moon's Eye plan, save for two pieces (Hachibi and Kyuubi). Everything's paid off so far.
If we do believe in that, then we totally need to forget about what he said in chapter 399 and 400. Madara was afraid of Hashirama as can be seen in chapter 399.
I'm hopeful that we'll see that he is just big mouth lucky guy, that's how he will be in our eyes by the end of the manga.
Originally Posted by Alterno
You take fear too literally. You don't fight a ninja over and over if you're afraid of him. Also, it was never stated that Madara lost to Hashirama prior to the thrown fight. Every time they met, they fought, which came down to a standstill according to his story to Sasuke (which, until we hear more, is the only truth we can believe).