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Thread: Abyssal Pit General thread

  1. #16
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Mutsu's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Rigardo vs Agatha
    Both of them were #2 and that will be an interesting fight cuz i think both are equal in power in spite of that I still bet for Rigardo )

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Wecome to this site, and to this Claymore forum/section, Mutsu! I hope you love Claymore as much as me, and make a lot of good posts, hehe!

    ------------------------------------------------

    I am too very interested in Rigardo vs Agatha, to see how powerful Agatha is, which is to see how powerful the 7 Ghosts, Galatea, and Miata are, lol.

    The Agatha battle was distorted for all fighters, Miata, Galatea, and Agatha.

    The reason it was distorted for Agatha was that:

    1. Miata vs Galatea. (Agatha was able to "sit back" and attack either or both of them at the same time they were battling each other)

    2. the 7 Ghosts vs 1 Agatha. (Unfair fight for Agatha, 1v7)

    3. the 7 Ghosts had their NYS (Natural Yoki Suppression: this occurs from years of not releasing/using yoki, such as the 7 Ghosts hiding in the north land and exiled/banished Rafaela), so Agatha had to literally fight all 7 Ghosts with her physical eyes and their eye sight. Agatha couldn't "See" or sense them with her yoki because she couldn't sense their yoki due to their NYS.

    (P.S. I am very interested in seeing Irene vs Rigardo/Dauf too)

    (sadly... these fantasy fights proably will never happens... sighs..)

    ------------------------------------

    anyways, I'm interested in your thoughts on the Rigardo vs Agatha battle! I'd like to know why you think Rigardo would win over Agatha (if I understood you right). I'd love to read your analysis and support for why you think that Rigardo would win!
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 20, 2010 at 07:04 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  3. #18
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner lolzasas's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Ophelia vs dauf

    i wanna see how would opehlia handle dauf in a fight. is her technique that strong enough to cut throug dauf? and since she has a great amount of strength i would like to see the outcome of this battle

    Claymore Priscilla vs Miata.

    i wana see these two young claymores dish it out i since miata has the 6th sense* can she surpass claymore priscilla?

    Claymore Miria (when was still active at org) vs Nina

    since mirias old phantom moved required some bursts of yoki i was wondering if nina's technique would counter it since Shadow Hunter its blade will track the Yoki of her opponent until the Yoki is extinguished. The move can only be stopped by directly attacking Nina.

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  5. #19
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Mutsu's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    anyways, I'm interested in your thoughts on the Rigardo vs Agatha battle! I'd like to know why you think Rigardo would win over Agatha (if I understood you right). I'd love to read your analysis and support for why you think that Rigardo would win!

    Well one of the reasons is coz:

    Being far smaller in stature than the average Awakened being (maybe priscilla too), Rigaldo relied more on his correspondingly superior speed and agility in battle (Agatha is really big and couldn't macth the speed of Rigardo). His speed easily matched that of Miria, one of the fastest Claymores of her generation, and his greater Yoki allowed him to maintain it without tiring. For long-range and surprise attacks, Rigaldo could extend his claws at high speed, and he could bend and change it's trayectory.

    The only defense against Rigardo that Agatha has is that she hid her vital part and put a decoy, therefore it just a matter of time before Agatha


    and thaks for the welcome!
    Last edited by Mutsu; September 21, 2010 at 08:53 AM.

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  7. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Quote Originally Posted by lolzasas View Post
    Ophelia vs dauf

    i wanna see how would opehlia handle dauf in a fight. is her technique that strong enough to cut throug dauf? and since she has a great amount of strength i would like to see the outcome of this battle

    Claymore Priscilla vs Miata.

    i wana see these two young claymores dish it out i since miata has the 6th sense* can she surpass claymore priscilla?

    Claymore Miria (when was still active at org) vs Nina

    since mirias old phantom moved required some bursts of yoki i was wondering if nina's technique would counter it since Shadow Hunter its blade will track the Yoki of her opponent until the Yoki is extinguished. The move can only be stopped by directly attacking Nina.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutsu View Post
    Well one of the reasons is coz:

    Being far smaller in stature than the average Awakened being (maybe priscilla too), Rigaldo relied more on his correspondingly superior speed and agility in battle (Agatha is really big and couldn't macth the speed of Rigardo). His speed easily matched that of Miria, one of the fastest Claymores of her generation, and his greater Yoki allowed him to maintain it without tiring. For long-range and surprise attacks, Rigaldo could extend his claws at high speed, and he could bend and change it's trayectory.

    The only defense against Rigardo that Agatha has is that she hid her vital part and put a decoy, therefore it just a matter of time before Agatha

    and thaks for the welcome!

    1. Ophelia vs Dauf

    Yes, I too feel Ophelia is very strong (actually more strong in base strength than Galatea, but Galatea uses her yoki to enhance her strength beyond what it should normally be at a given yoki release), and would also like to see if she could cut Dauf.

    Irene, Ophelia, (and Clare releasing her yoki, using her Quick Sword) all, I wanna see if they can cut Dauf, and battle against him well!

    One caveat though:

    Ophelia's sword technique "Rippling Sword", isn't powerful but vibrates fast (it's probably similar to how a fluffy feather like thing, whatever it is called, is put on the spear point, as it distracts the target's eyes from seeing the actual position of the metal spear point), Ophelia herself is the source of her power, not her "Rippling Sword". Ophelia used a normal and single sword slice to decapitate that gonal town ruins female rank 5-9 AB.

    2. Claymore Priscilla vs Miata

    definately! who would win, as both of them might have/had the potential to rival and maybe even surpass Teresa.

    For me personally, I'm a huge Miata fan. Priscilla is the FAILED/FAKE Claymore whom was suppose to rival and surpass Teresa. Miata is the REAL/TRUE Claymore whom can rival and surpass Teresa. Miata's uber senses, act in the exact same way as Teresa's "PYS" ("Pre-emptive Yoki Sensing". I don't like this which someone else came up with because it doesn't completely describe the ability, but PYS is nice and short, so I use it, lol) ability, except they can work even the opponent isn't releasing yoki, unlike Teresa's "PYS" ability. Miata is also the only other Claymore (excluding Rafaela, though her crushing of Luciela's back was while Luciela was in her human/Claymore body/form) to have the raw brute strength to tear apart normal yomas (though Teresa had the strength to tear off an Abyssal One's, Awakened rank 1 Rosemary's, arm) with her bare hands.

    However, Claymore Priscilla, despite getting pwned by Teresa, was a "profession warrior/fighter", Miata is not. Yes, Miata's uber senses mostly make up for for Miata's lack of combat experience, but she's still lacking it, whereas Priscilla is not. Also, Claymore Priscilla is mature in terms of being serious (or fanatical towards Order/Justice, lol) in combat only. Obviously outside of combat, Claymore Priscilla is NOT mature, but very childish. However, Miata is even more so, literally babyish as she's shown unweened lol. Miata isn't dead serious in combat like Claymore Priscilla was. Oh, Miata will protect Clarice, but she doesn't have that killer-warrior mentality of maturity that all the other Claymores have, including Claymore Priscilla.

    anyways.... I better stop.. as I could go on a bit longer, laughs...

    I feel that Miata (is she became more mature/serious in combat) would easily beat Claymore Priscilla.

    3. Miria vs Nina

    my take is that... ya, Nina's Shadow Chaser will chase Miria (though getting too nerdy here... wouldn't the Shadow Chaser be defective, as it would move, stop, move, stop, move, etc.. as Miria's Phantom Step is from rapid multiple bursts of yoki, lol), the problem is that Miria, with her speed, will have long since decapitated Nina, which would end the Shadow Chaser, as Nina would be dead long upon the instant their battle starts.

    4. Agatha vs Rigardo

    would definately be interesting.

    We know Rigardo is powerful, as he remained the commander of those 30 male ABs! He had to have been more powerful then them, obviously as we know with all males... they'll challenge and usurp somone whom isn't strong enough to hold them off. Rigardo tried to do the very same thing against isley, "dueling" for the rank 1 spot (as is always allowed within the Org, dueling for a rank), but learned that Isley was indeed a rank 1 and he just a rank 2, as Isley pwned him. He seems to have been subserviant and loyal ever sense.

    So, Rigardo has to be strong (enough offensive might to cut-slice and kill ABs), and we also know that he is very fast+agile. Rigardo is the "Miria" of the ABs (or Miria is the "Rigardo" of the Claymores, hehe).

    I don't know if his fingers/fingernails tentacles are that powerful though. So his ranged combat may be non-existant.

    However, Agatha DOES have soft skin... a human was able to cut her (fake) head off. So, maybe Rigardo's tentacles can damage Agatha, as well.


    Now about Agatha, she definately doesn't have the speed. She's almost like Dauf, actually, mostly immobile. However, she has offense, and a lot of tentacles. She also is able to gradually somehow hit a target and slowly increase the strength of this mysterious and unseen attack. This is what she did to rank 1 Miata.

    So, can Rigardo avoid her powerful tentacles, and will he be "falling apart" just like Miata was, or would he be able to kill Agatha first?

    Also, Agatha has, as you mentioned, the abilitiy to move her REAL-TRUE human body around within her fake shell/exoskeleton Awakened body/form, just like Riful and Ophelia (remember Ophelia move her REAL-TRUE human body into the tail of her fake shell/exoskeleton Awakened snake-naga-gorgon body/form).

    So, Rigardo, could have some great difficulty in targetting the actual vital organs of Agatha.

    I don't think we know how good Rigardo's yoki sensing is, but maybe I could be wrong. I never really thought about this, and so never payed attention to how good Rigardo could sense yoki, or not.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 21, 2010 at 09:34 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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  9. #21
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Vengeance's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Luciela vs. Riful
    Hard to say since we didn't get to see allot about Luciela. My vote would have to go to Rful though since she's older & simply more developed as a character.

    Galatea vs Agatha
    Just to clear something up Miata was not a rank 1 she was rank 4. Anyway I thought it was mentioned that Galatea allowed herself to be found by Claymores in the hopes of getting assistance against Agatha. Wouldn't this imply that Galatea wouldn't be able to stop Agatha alone? Though she could have probably considered human casualties in this & was thinking of the best way to take down Agatha minimal loss of human life.

    Teresa vs Destroyer
    Not to bash Teresa or anything but she fell fairly easily to Priscilla once she was awakened while the Destroyer has been wasting energy to attack everything not limited to Priscilla. Based on this I'm sorry to say but from what we actually know of Teresa she'd lose.

    Rigardo vs Agatha
    My money is on Agatha with this one. Rigardo is a purely melee type with poor regeneration ability.

    Ophelia vs Dauf
    I think that Ophelia would be able to cut Dauf however I don't see that as being enough to actually defeat him. Dauf is extremely powerful while Ophelia tends to be a reckless fighter. She did after all allow her own neck to be snapped & carelessly got cut down in seconds after underestimating Irene. I give the advantage to Dauf.

    Claymore Priscilla vs Miata
    Prscilla would destroy this child just as Galatea could have if she actually was trying to cut her down. Sorry but Miata seems to be getting overrated in this thread for some reason. Miata was ranked 4th not 1st in her generation of Claymore. Claymore's 3 & 5 were shown to be garbage against the previous generations I don't see why a number 4 would be any different.

    Teresa vs Priscilla
    Why is this even up for debate when Priscilla killed Teresa? Based on that alone Priscilla is the obvious victor here. Priscilla was said to hold potential to surpass Teresa. Meaning even if you're trying to imagine an awakened Teresa the edge in this fight should still go to Priscilla since awakening unlocks ones latent potential. Meaning awakened Priscilla is obviously more powerful than an awakened Teresa.

    Claymore Miria (when was still active at org) vs Nina
    Miria would destroy Nina in seconds. The current generation of Claymores are all garbage when compared to Clare's generation.

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  11. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    The manga disproves two of your statements:


    1. ~"Miata is not a rank 1" -Vengence

    According to Rimuto and Rado, you're wrong.

    Rimuto: chapter 73 page 3
    Rado: chapter 68 page 8

    2. ~"Teresa had a hard time against About-To-Awaken Priscilla" -Vengence

    0-9% yoki release:

    Pupil of their eyes is circular (Silver eyes, but there's no color in the manga, only the anime, so we have to look at their pupils' shape for the manga)

    10-100% yoki release:

    Pupil of their eyes is vertically narrow like a cat's or a snake's (Golden eyes, but there's no color in the manga, only the anime, so we have to look at their pupils' shape for the manga)

    Priscilla at ~70-74% yoki release: chapter 22 page 23

    vs 0-9% yoki release Teresa: chapter 22 pages 23-31

    Priscilla slices Teresa's forehead. 70-74% Priscilla is more powerful than 0-9% Teresa.

    chapter 22 page 31: Teresa is at 0-9% yoki release, as can be seen by her pupils' shape clearly on this page

    vs 10% yoki release Teresa: chapter 22 page 32 - chapter 23 page 13

    chapter 23 page 9: Teresa is at 10% yoki release now, as can be seen by her pupils' shape clearly on this page.

    chapter 23 page 11: Irene states that Teresa is using exactly 10% yoki release to just change her eyes to golden. Teresa is NOT using 10-30% yoki, but rather EXACTLY 10% yoki.

    10% Teresa is seen completely dominating ~70-74% Priscilla once again.

    Priscilla at ~75-79% yoki release: chapter 23 pages 14-15

    ~75-79% Priscilla dominates 10% Teresa, as can be seen with Teresa grimacing to parry Priscilla's sword strike.

    Priscilla at 80-??% yoki release: chapter 23 page 16 - chapter 24 page 21

    Priscilla hits at least 80% yoki, and starts to Awaken, becoming an Awakened.

    chapter 23 page 20:

    Teresa foolishly believes the fight is over and that she can trust Awakening Priscilla to allow herself to be executed so that she may "die with the heart of a human", and thus...

    Teresa LOWERS her yoki back BELOW 10% yoki release, as can be clearly seen by her pupils' circular shape (silver eyes).

    at least 80% yoki release Priscilla decapitates the UNDER yoki releasing 0-9% Teresa (when just a few pages back, we see that 75-79% Priscilla overpowering 10% Teresa. Teresa needed to RAISE her yoki ABOVE 10% yoki, NOT LOWER her yoki BELOW 10%, as we see her do)

    Clearly Priscilla never defeated Teresa, was NEVER superior to Teresa. Had Teresa raised her yoki to 20%, Teresa would never have been decapitated, but unfortunately she foolishly lowered her yoki back below 10% instead, and was thus decapitated.

    --------------------------------------------

    3. "Claymore's 3 & 5 were shown to be garbage against the previous generations" -Vengence

    actually, we NEVER see Audrey's and Rachel's actual abilities/combat performance compared to Clare's Era of Claymores.

    3A. The ONLY reason the 4 HA (Half Awaken) Ghosts (Miria, Deneve, Helen, and Clare) were able to rescue Audrey and Rachel from Riful is because of their NYS (natural yoki suppression). Riful could NOT sense their yokis, thus she had to literally/physically see them with her physical eyes, which allowed/kept the 4 HA Ghosts safe from Riful.

    However, as Clare said much later on right before she released the Destroyer, Clare said that Riful was still more powerful than her, and would tear her apart in seconds (if Clare didn't still have her NYS)

    3B. the ONLY two reasons Miria was able to knock Audrey and Rachel unconscious (as well as the other Claymores, but not the trainee Awakening Twins) was because of her NYS and her speed.

    Miria's speed was not enough for the trainee Awakening Twins as they could switch whom was Awakened faster than Miria could get to them. So Miria had to release her yoki in order to use her faster Phantom Step, but this also wasted her yoki, and allowed Raftela's Yoki Manipulation to work/take effect on Miria, which seems to have been Miria's downfall/death...


    in other words, we have no idea whom is better:

    (for example): Galatea or Audrey

    or even Miria vs Audrey, as we don't know if it was Miria's speed or if it was her NYS, that gave her the advantage over Audrey. We don't know if Audrey could actually handle Miria's speed, but merely couldn't due to the unfair NYS that Miria had (which also kept her and the 3 other HA Ghosts safe from Riful earlier in the chapters).

    -------------------------------

    about Ophelia vs Dauf:

    While I don't know whom would win, I'd have to defend Ophelia with this:

    I actually got more of the impression that Ophelia was TOYING with the female single digit/ranked AB. With Raki and Clare and all, even throwing Raki up to it.

    And this is further supported how Ophelia killed it in a single attack (okay it was still "alive" and Ophelia than sliced its head into pieces, actually killing it in thus two attacks, but meh). To me, clearly Ophelia was superior to it, so much so that it was "child's play" for her, and she could easily "afford to play around with it, even letting it twist her neck".

    In regards to Irene, to me it wasn't that Ophelia "sucked", but that Irene was that much superior to Ophelia, on a compeltely different level, Ophelia was completely outclassed by Irene and her Quick Sword (I mean rank 4 Ophelia couldn't even see rank 2 Irene's Quick Sword, which also rank 3 Sophia and rank 4 Noel, could NOT see as well)
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 19, 2010 at 11:55 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  12. #23
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Vengeance's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    1. ~"Miata is a rank 1" - HegemonKhan
    Miata having the power to aim for # 1 does not make her #1. During that generation of Claymores Alica was #1 while Beth was #2 & Audrey was #3 Making Miata #4. On 68-08 her rank is clearly stated as 4 not 1. Having potential to become a number 1 in the future & actually being ranked 1 are two entirely different things. Like I said before Miata was ranked 4th not 1st within the organization.

    2. About Teresea & Priscilla
    That's all well & good however as the facts actually stand Priscilla killed Teresea which makes her stronger. During this time Priscilla was clearly using youki which means Teresea should have been able to sense what Priscilla was about to do. We all saw Priscilla grab for her sword yet Teresea didn't do a thing about that because she obviously couldn't. Teresea doesn't fight with her full youki because it would clearly be harder for her to sense Priscilla's movements as mentioned with Clare when it was revealed that she does the same thing. Meaning raw power wouldn't necessarily make Teresea stronger but rather would make her weaker in an actual fight.

    When looking at their base form fight Priscilla was clearly on par with Teresea in the beginning but really lost because of a lack of experience & a weak mental state. Simply put Priscilla was not ready to face someone like Teresea due to a lack of experience as a Claymore which is pretty much implied within the manga.

    Once Priscilla started using Youki the fight was pretty much always in Teresea's favor since she could now easily predict Priscilla's actions. 10%, 40%, 70% concepts don't really matter here as it's clearly stated that Priscilla's had latent potential to surpass Teresea which was done when she actually awakened.

    3. About Claymore's 3 & 5
    Actually Miria pwned them both without fighting them seriously 106-20 at the same time while they were doing their so called tag team BS. They were both basically garbage in comparison. They have no real feets of ability that would warrant them to have such a high number. The obvious reasoning behind this is because the Organization is simply lacking in strength when they killed off half of their original Claymore. My comment about them stands the Claymore of this generation are garbage when compared to Clare's Generation. a ranked 3 & 5 needing to be saved plus them getting utterly pwned by a former 6 pretty much proves this.

    about Ophelia vs Dauf
    My problem with Ophelia in this situation isn't that she sucks but rather that she's simply to reckless. I simply see Dauf taking advantage of that lack of intelligence in battle which would allow him to kill her.

  13. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    about Priscilla killing Teresa:

    human Cid decapitated Agatha's (fake) head, if that was in fact her real head, Cid, a human, would have killed an Awakened rank 2, Agatha!

    I hope you're not saying that Cid is superior/more powerful to Agatha, because that's the argument you're making, and as it's completely wrong.

    there's a difference, between killing and ACTUALLY DEFEATING, an opponent.

    let's use a real life example:

    I could NEVER defeat Chuck Liddel in a UFC match. He's irrefutably superior/more powerful compared to me. He'd kick my bottom!

    However, even I could knock him out, if he let down his guard, dropped his power level (if he could do such a thing) or turned off his fight mode, and proverbially "turned his back on me", like Teresa did (fatally foolishly) against Priscilla.

    Teresa is Chuck Liddel, and Priscilla is merely me. Priscilla knocked Teresa out, in the only way that I could knock Chuck Liddel out, we were allowed to do so (or in Teresa's case foolishly-accidentally allowed Priscilla to do so), Priscilla could irrefutably NEVER ACTUALLY DEFEAT Teresa, just as I could NEVER ACTUALLY DEFEAT Chuck Liddel.

    ---------

    again, as I tried to point out in my previous post:

    Teresa needed MORE THAN 10% yoki against 80% or more Priscilla.

    But, instead Teresa foolishly LOWERED her yoki BELOW 10%... and thus Priscilla was able to decapitated Teresa (as well as Teresa letting down her guard/wariness/caution, and thinking the fight was over and that Priscilla would willingly let herself be executed by Teresa)

    had Teresa used 20% yoki, Priscilla would not have decapitated Teresa.

    and let's get serious here:

    10% Teresa pwns ~74% Priscilla.

    10% Teresa gets "pwned" (arguably) by ~75-79% Priscilla.

    0-9% Teresa gets decapitated by 80% or more Priscilla, whom is about to Awaken in the next 5 seconds or so.

    Teresa IS superior to Priscilla by 7-8x more so! It would take 7-8 Priscilla's to equal Teresa's power. It's really that simple.

    at just 10% yoki release Teresa was already practically rivalling an about to awaken (nearly 80%) Priscilla.

    trying to compare near 80% near Awakened Priscilla to 10% Teresa, saying how Priscilla is Superior/more powerful, is completely absurd. 10% vs 70%... or even worse 0-9% vs 80-??%

    for me, none of these pro-Priscilla argument points, over-ride these manga points, which are supportive of in Teresa's favor. Also, your argument of Priscilla killing Teresa is an empty one, because it has NOTHING to do with whether Priscilla is more powerful than Teresa or not. Anyone can be killed, and as I pointed out Cid had nearly killed Agatha (if that fake head of hers wasn't fake, lol).

    -----------------------------------

    you're ignoring what Rimuto said in chapter 73 page 3 and Rado in chapter 68 page 8, they clearly explain Miata's power level of being that of a rank 1, and WHY they gave her the rank of 4 instead of rank 1.

    Miata is a rank 1, but due to her childness-immaturity-child mentality, she's been temporarily given the rank of 4.

    as Rimuto says, now that Miata's "issues" are solved through you Clarice, we can finally start giving her the missions she's suppose to be doing as a rank 1. As such, her first mission is to merely execute rank 3 God Eye Galatea, an easy starting mission for our rank 1 Miata, so you don't have to worry about anything Clarice, as rank 1 Miata can easily handle a mere rank 3 Galatea.

    I mean if Miata was a rank 4, Rimuto, the leader of the Organization himself along with Rado as well, would never say that Miata is a rank 1, nor give her a first mission of executing a rank 3 (Galatea).

    A rank 4 could never defeat a rank 3, just look at the vast difference in power level between rank 4 Ophelia vs rank 2 Irene, as Miria herself said/explained, the difference in power level increases exponentially from rank 6 to rank 5 to rank 4 to rank 3 to rank 2 to rank 1.

    So, if Miata was truly a rank 4, she'd never have been able to defeat rank 3 Galatea, nor given the mission to do so, let alone as her very first mission..

    lastly... it's very possible that Miata was fighting still suppressed under the YSPs, against Galatea and Agatha.

    so, for me, Rimuto and Rado, have more credence and authority/expertise on the matter of Miata, than your argument points do, and they EXPLAIN *WHY* Miata is given the rank 4 spot, instead of the rank 1 spot that they BOTH say that she is.

    Priscilla WAS a rank 1 (well actually beyond a rank 1, like Teresa was also. I call them S ranks, Super ranks, rank S, rank Super), just as Miata IS a rank 1 as well.

    *I also am of the opinion/theory of Rafaela and Beth being rank 1's as well. If interested I can explain this elsewhere, or maybe here I guess too.

    ---------------------------------

    P.S.

    great posts, vengeance, keep debating/posting!

    I just don't personally see how the Priscilla points (you, and others too, make) over-ride the manga content, which I feel favors Teresa.

    I'm fully a Teresa supporter as can be seen, laughs.

    -------------------------

    P.S.S.

    Priscilla supporters feel free to defend her! Try to convince me that Priscilla is superior (it's not going to happen, hehe), but please do try!

    (though I think there's a Teresa vs Priscilla thread already, so post there please, if it's about Teresa vs Priscilla. However, if it's about a battle that nevr occured, such as Awakened Teresa vs Awakened Priscilla, that is on-topic to discuss here)
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 19, 2010 at 08:23 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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  15. #25
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Vengeance's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    The manga states that Mitia is ranked forth but can aim for number 1. However since she's mentally retarded (making her less effective in combat) she was given the rank of 4. Not once do they ever state she is ranked 1. Stop fanning characters for the sake of fanning please.

    The official ranks within the Organization for the current generation of Claymores stand as

    1. Alica
    2. Beth
    3. Audrey
    4. Miata
    5. Rachel
    6. Renée
    9. Nina
    8. Dietrich
    10. Raftera
    47. Clarice

    PS: It was pretty obvious that Galatea could have killed Miata if she was actually trying. Having more youki power doesn't automatically make someone better in actual combat. Miata is mentally challenged & attacks blindly in combat. This is her flaw & is one of the reasons why she isn't ranked 1.


    About Priscilla vs Teresa
    I'm not comparing Priscilla to Cid since those were two entirely different situations.

    1. Cid had other people there to distract Agatha while Priscilla didn't.

    2. Teresa knew that Priscilla was losing control of herself since you know she was about to awaken. Meaning Teresa should have been on her guard regardless of what Priscilla was saying.

    3. Priscilla while at 80% or whatever first reached for her sword while Teresa was looking right at her before actually cutting off Teresa's hands.

    4. Even after getting her hands chopped off from an opponent who was 1 second ago on their knees & disarmed Teresa still failed to move fast enough to avoid getting her head chopped off.

    What does all of this show? A clear difference in speed obviously. Teresa having the ability to predict attacks before they happened means she should have sensed this however since she wasn't fast enough she couldn't actually do anything to avoid it.

    Making a false assumption about Teresa being at 20% would have dodged it is bullshit. In fact I can now make an assumption about how since she only really fights seriously at 10% that she wouldn't actually be able to predict Priscilla's movement since she'd be using to much youki.

    You seem to fail to understand the actual concept of why Teresa was so powerful. It wasn't simply because of raw physical strength, speed, agility, or youki power but because she was able to predict what her opponents would do before they even had a chance to do it. The argument you're trying to present about Teresa using more youki power would automatically make her a more deadly opponent is a fictitious argument at best when you consider what actually makes her powerful in the first place.
    Last edited by Vengeance; October 19, 2010 at 08:44 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    great post vengeance!

    but, for now on, all Claymore Teresa vs Claymore Priscilla discussions need to go to this thread:

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57704

    -----

    as this thread isn't for battles that have already occured/happened in the manga.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    my reasons for why Miata is a rank 1:

    1. Rimuto: chapter 73 page 3

    2. Rado: chapter 68 page 8

    3. her uber senses, rivalling or superior to Teresa's (and now Clare's) PYS abilities. Miata can use her uber senses all the time. the PYS can only be used when the opponent is releasing yoki.

    4. her strength. can tear normal yomas into pieces with her bare hands.

    5. her strength. nearly pulled over Agatha's giant-spider-pod Awakened body even while her hands were about to rip off from her arms.

    6. first mission is to execute Galatea. quite a tall order. suggests Miata is indeed a rank 1, which is how Rimuto and Rado explained/said it as meaning.

    7. her battle performances (all of them in general, including against the normal yomas + the hydra-worm AB)

    8. specifically her battle performance against Galatea+Agatha. I'll leave out the details/specifics that I would point to for now.

    9. her speed. seen in all of her battles, especially against Galatea (her "2nd half" performance).

    10. her strength. specifically against Galatea.

    11. her young age. lots of room/time to grow/improve.

    12. Clarice states that she fears Miata, due to her power, the most....

    13. Miata was fighting 1v2 (Galatea+Agatha)... though I must also mention that so was Galatea too, 1v2 (Miata+Agatha)

    14. etc (whatever I'm forgettting, lol)

    -----------

    addition:

    15. Miata at rank 4 was an exception. (and as I've stated, I feel it's quite explained why)

    other exceptions (where their rank doesn't match up):

    rank 47 Clare -> especially after becoming an HA, she's way more powerful than a rank 47, lol
    rank 5 Rafaela -> was already at least a rank 2 priorly
    rank 2 Priscilla -> clearly from her Awakening, she's beyond even a rank 1.
    rank 3 Irene -> was priorly a rank 2 (though I wonder if she was a rank 1, but was merely put at rank 2, due to Teresa having rank 1, lol)
    rank 4 Sophia -> was priorly a rank 3
    rank 5 Noel -> was priorly a rank 4
    rank 6 Elda -> was priorly a rank 5
    rank 17-19 (forgot which and too lazy to look up) Miria -> she improved to rank 8, and than rank 6 and became a HA as well.
    rank 8 Miria -> she improved to rank 6 and became a HA as well
    rank 6 Miria -> after becoming a HA, she's much more powerful than a rank 6
    rank 15 Deneve -> after becoming a HA, she's much more powerful than a rank 15
    rank 22 Helen -> after becoming a HA, she's much more powerful than a rank 22
    rank 9 Jean -> after becoming a HA, she's much more powerful than a rank 9 (albiet very briefly though)
    rank 40 Yuma -> after becoming a Ghost, she's much more powerful than that other rank 14 Claymore
    rank 14 Cynthia -> after becoming a Ghost, she's much more powerful than a rank 14
    rank 31 Tabatha -> after becoming a Ghost, she's much more powerful than a rank 31
    etc (there's probably a few more, i'm forgetting)
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 31, 2011 at 06:54 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights: Clare vs Claymore Ophelia Theory Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
    here's a thought I had about an old battle from many (many many lol) chapters ago:

    In the Claymore Clare vs Claymore Ophelia battle, Clare suppresses her yoki, in order to be able to sense Ophelia's yoki with her "PYS" (Pre-emptive Yoki Sensing) ability (only Teresa and Clare have this yoki ability), however, we (the readers/watchers) and she-Clare learns that while the PYS ability allows her to know how/where Claymore Ophelia attacks her with her "Rippling Sword", Clare is still unable with her own abilities to parry it.

    Thus, I'm going to say that Clare in this battle was stupid. Once Clare found out she's still unable to parry Claymore Ophelia's "Rippling Sword" (at her first cut from it), why did she not release her yoki, and try to out power Ophelia instead. Also, if she had released her own yoki, Clare might have then had the ability to parry Claymore Ophelia's "Rippling Sword", though then she wouldn't be able to sense Claymore Ophelia's yoki with her PYS ability. Still, suppressing her yoki, was doing nothing for Clare, so I say that she should have released her yoki, becoming more powerful, and try to go on the offensive and attack/kill Claymore Ophelia first, before she gets chopped up like she DID GET CHOPPED by Claymore Ophelia's "Rippling Sword" even while suppressing her yoki and thus using her PYS ability.

    agree or disagree? anyone have any thoughts about this?
    further additions to this.....

    I theorize that:

    The Rippling Sword is a PHYSICAL Sword Technique (Ophelia is merely using her Yoma body to jerk her hand/arm holding her sword that fast, and it creates a blur to the eyes, much like how asians have a feather-fluff thing on their spear points), it uses *NO* yoki, and that's why Clare's use of her PYS/ELYSA was useless against it

    Ophelia's Rippling Sword:

    (in trying to "see"/guard/parry against it)

    Yoki Sensing = useless
    Eyesight = useless

    ----------------------------------

    so, actually her Rippling Sword is actually a very good, effective, and powerful attack against BOTH Claymores and Awakeneds !!!!!

    ------------------------------

    And that's why I theorize that Clare was stupid in her battle against Claymore Ophelia!

    Instead of removing her YR to use her PYS/ELYSA, Clare should have kept her YR, battling Claymore Ophelia outright in Power Levels. As Ophelia WAS YR'ing as well, she surely wouldn't have done so, if she didn't need to, Ophelia felt/knew that Clare WAS INDEED powerful, and so Ophelia YR however much against Clare.

    Clare would indeed have been able to actually defeat Ophelia if she had kept her YR, because remember what Miria said too about Clare: "It felt as though I was standing next to the most powerful Claymore I had ever knowm [which certainly INcludes Ophelia, as Miria definately knows Ophelia, lol. So, Miria was outright saying that Clare was already more powerful than Claymore Ophelia, before they had even fought the "spiderman" male AB!]", and as I jsut stated above, Ophelia also felt/knew Clare was powerful, as why would she YR like she did against Clare, if she didn't fear Clare's Power Level?
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 13, 2011 at 01:43 AM.

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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    I compare The Rippling Sword technique to something like a chainsaw or one of them electric power saws used to cut dry wall and sheet rocks, except much much larger. It's effective and don't need a lot of strength if you're using it for the right job. For splitting logs and busting down a brick wall, brute strength is still the best combine with a simple tool like an axe or sledge hammer.

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  20. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    The Rippling Sword never was described as "chain saw" like, though you're definately free to think so on what you use for that basis, such as what it looks like/seems to be like or whatever else you used.

    -unfortunately, the Rippling Sword never was truly explained, and Clare's "It's like a snake!", isn't that helpful... lol...

    -though I do believe it supports my view of the Rippling Sword, better than your "chain saw" view of the Rippling Sword, as Ophelia did NOT "chain-saw" slice through Clare's (unbreakable, like all) claymore sword.

    my small point is that:

    it is actually Alicia's (Awakened) BLADED body's BLADES, that was in fact described as being "chain-saw" like, by Riful herself, and Alicia proved it too, demolishing poor Duaf's arm, and Riful herself stayed out of harm's way from Alicia, as Alicia could slice Riful's hard ribbon-tentacled body as well.

    Alicia (and probably Beth too, however we only got to see Awakened Beth against Priscilla, lol) was roughly equal to Riful, but I'll leave the arguing of whether she was slightly weaker or stronger, to others to decide on, lol.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 13, 2011 at 12:30 PM.

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  22. #30
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    Re: Fantasy Fights

    Galatea (post-time skip) vs Irene (with both arms). That would be full of win. My fanboy says Galatea would win due to her sensing yoki manipulation (which would probably work quite well against quick sword) and mega yoki reserves. But reality tells me Irene would win due to sheer speed.

    As for Galatea vs Agatha, it seems people always forget how handicapped Galatea was in that fight. She had to protect the people of Rabona, fight Miata, and fight Agatha at the same time (and Miata was totally focused on Galatea for most that fight). The fact that she even lived is a testament to her strength. And she did all that without her full power! Her power boost from releasing her Yoki was the greatest in her generation and she didn't use it in that fight (probably because she wanted the 7 to help her out).
    Last edited by White Silver King; April 13, 2011 at 10:02 PM.

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