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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
The Elites, with ease
The Fallen, with ease
The Elites, with difficulty
The Fallen, with difficulty
The Elites: Kira, Yumichika, Hisagi, and Ikkaku
The Fallen: Adult Nel (Prime), Dordonii Alessandro Del Socacchio, Cirucci Sanderwicci and Gantenbainne Mosqueda
Location: Wherever, whenever
Preconditions: None. Zanpaktou releases on both sides are fair game.
This seems like a pretty interesting bout IMO. Now we know that the only group stronger than the former members of the Espada is the current lineup. While the ants were able to triumph against the dragons in the fake Kakakura town, would that be success be repeated against the former Espada. Vote and state your reasons here.
The Fallen as conditions currently are. Easily too. Yumichika isn't pulling true shikai, Ikkaku isn't pulling bankai, not with the other contenders present and no means to hide it. Without those, those two are basically fodder for any of them, and then Hisagi, who isn't particularly broken himself, is screwed. Kira might barely take Gatenbainne in time before he gets bum rushed by the other three, but by then it's over.
There's no way the "elites" win with Neliel on the fallen team. She's espada level; arguably stronger than Nnoitora. Now, I do think that the other three could be taken by the their shinigami counterparts, but whomever is fighting Nel is going down quickly - so she can easily come to the aid of whomever needs it.
Ikkaku and Yumichika, if they did use their respective releases would easily mop the floor with Dordonii, Thunderwitch, or Gantenbainne, but against Neliel they're screwed.
Well it would be interesting to see all the Elites take on Nel on her own in some additonal scenario.
But its true, one-on-one none of the Elites could ever hope to match let alone win against Nel...
IMO any of the fallen would individually give the fodder treatment to the elites combined.
Last edited by kkck; August 28, 2010 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I think she had a good shot at defeating him. Just because she released before he did doesn't mean she had to. While sealed was having a much easier time cutting through Nnoitora's hierro than Kenpachi did. Yeah, her double-cero didn't do much, but that says more about how weak Nnoitora's cero is - even doubled in strength it's useless. Kenpachi pushed Nnoitora's cero away with his open hand so it's not like Nnoitora could injure her with a cero either.
Another thing to note is that Neliel was not necessarily at her prime at that moment. Her mask was still cracked, and we saw what happened shortly after she released...
Maybe you should make a Neliel vs. Nnoitora topic.
Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; August 28, 2010 at 02:26 PM.
Nel's doesn't actually double the power of a cero with her technique. She absorbs the enemy cero and adds the power of her own to it. So the double cero thing comes from it having the power of 2 different and separate ceros rather than just doubling the original's cero's strength.
Nell wins. She still sliced through Nnoi's skin like butter. If ken had trouble with it, which at first he did, that says huge amounts.
Ken would swipe through the elites, zanpakto's and all. Nel would probably do the same. Blocking is not going to help against a sword with that much reatsu behind it.
Then you have the other 3 fallen. One was almost as good as a bankai Ichigo. The other could fire a thousand shots at once, and the chocolate guy seemed pretty strong too. Considering that Ikkaku with his bankai is easily the strongest and he had trouble with that volcano dude, a fallen espada would swipe him away.
It kind of puts Chad and Ishida in to perspective. Way better than VC's but not quite captain.
i agree, the hollows take it.
Ikkaku's opponent takes him out if they can avoid taking direct hits from his bankai. he needs to work on that bankai, because it's so badass, and i love him as a character, but it's such a one trick pony, and it's one trick isn't that great.
Yumi's opponent is probably the most screwed. if he caught them with the vines, which seem plenty capable of catching people and keeping them restrained (he beat Hisagi and Coolhorn without them even coming close to breaking free). Yumi is one badass, scary dude underneath his gay self presentation.
this is assuming that these two use their secret releases. which they probably wouldn't. Ikkaku might after that pep talk that he got from Iba. Yumi still probably wouldn't use his.
this makes both of them pretty much useless against opponents of this level. they're both skilled melee fighters, but lack the power needed.
Hisagi is the same way. he's such a skilled, smart fighter, he's got some nice tricks up his nonexistent sleeves, and he can really tank some heavy damage, but he lacks a bankai and a lot of power. these are no fraccion that they're fighting.
Kira kind of just sucks. his shikai is decent, but once you've figured it out, it's not that hard to work around. he himself is weak, and he's susceptible to breaking down and crying/screaming in fear if he's really outmatched. he shat himself back when Aizen and Gin had to save them at the academy, and he shat himself even harder in FKT.
Nel is the former 3 espada. now, she'd probably be around #6 (it seemed to me that a released Noitora could have edged out a victory over her). she's too much for these VC level fighters.
the privarion aren't too bad. Dordoni did well until Ichigo used his mask with his bankai.
and with Dordoni, he seemed pretty close to bankai Ichigo, even though Ichigo wasnt acting to serious when he went bankai, we later find out that neither was Dordoni, multiplying the number of bird-extension-things by at least four. Not too mention Kira wouldn't be able to do anything to those extensions.
Wow...I didn't expect such a landslide..At least I had fun putting together the title
The basis of this fight was to see where the Elites/Power Officers of the Gotei stand in the series. Sure a few of them may give the Espada a run for their money but the former Espada would make for a more interesting debate.
Just to clarify, "Preconditions: None. Zanpaktou releases on both sides are fair game" would mean that everyone, namely the guys from the 11th, would go all out. Another thing that I will mention is that Nel is the deciding factor IMO.
Kira could very well defeat Cirucci the same way he defeated Avirama in the fake Kakakura Town. Yumichika, given the opportunity, could give Gantenbainne Mosqueda a fight with his shikai. Hisagi and Ikkaku, the most powerful members of that group IMO, would be the only ones who could fight Nel & Dordonii (coincidental, I swear). At the very least, the most power I see coming out of this fight would be from Ikkaku (bankai user) and through Nel's release.
When a dude says there are no conditions you assume they are in character. Would have been wiser just to say Ikkaku and Yumichika go all out regardless of anything.
Though even given that... matchups don't look good on the Elites side. Ikkaku pretty much has to take Nel, he's the only one who arguably stands a chance and she'd still wipe the floor with him. Yumichika and Kira would probably do good against the Privaron that faught Chad, but the one that fought Ishida is broken as hell relatively speaking and rapestomps either, Hisagi too in all honesty. Hell, she probably takes all of them at the same time. The one Ichigo faught didn't really get a decent enough showing, but Hisagi might be able to take him given how their abilities match, but once he starts sending out that swarm of wind beaks it looks bleak for him. Yeah, not looking good for the elites there.
Hisagi and Kira have shown to have decent kidou though which they would need to be using to prevent or stall their opponents from outright attacking them, and maybe giving them an opening to attack. Hisagi also has that exploding armband which would help him too.
Nel however, will always be the wall/gatekeeper preventing their victory. Idk...maybe toss in some more FKT VC fighters and Rengi against Nel...and they could chip damage her...but even then...
People give this to the fallen due to nel but even without her they'd have a remarkably easy time IMO. Shikai ichigo is pretty much still much stronger than a VC and still got the fodder treatment from sealed dodorni, let alone resurreccion dodorni. The VCs would get owned....
Just like all captains are not equal, all VCs are not equal. Hisagi and Kira are elite VCs, Ikkaku with his bankai is most likely stronger than them and Yumichika is no pushover. These guys defeated Barragan's fraccions which I believe were not far weaker than privaron espada. (Well, Ikkaku didn't but we all know why.)
Nelliel can defeat the "The Elites" team by herself but Ikkaku can take on and defeat any other from "The Fallen" team. Hisagi and Kira also have a pretty good chance to defeat their opponents and with help of Yumichika, they can certainly defeat Dordonii, Cirucci and Gantenbainne combined. Without Nelliel they win, with Nelliel no contest.