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Thread: The Obvious And Not So Obvious Reasons Why Captains Don't Go Bankai And Survive Fights

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner MacLeodoftheClan's Avatar
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    The Obvious And Not So Obvious Reasons Why Captains Don't Go Bankai And Survive Fights

    Clearly if you and your opponent both have Bankai, you wouldn't turn yours on because your opponent can do likewise. If he's outmatched you so far it is likely to remain the case post-Bankai.

    In feudal japan when opposing armies of samurai were (roughly) evenly matched their generals would walk up and duel first and the result of this fight would determine how their armies would react. A draw would mean both of their armies would walk off. Its a ritual designed to preserve lives.

    Shikai tests the combatants' mettle and in that mode it is also possible to win or a lose a fight without the imposition of losing/taking a life which Bankai brings.

    This must be the traditionally accepted way of fighting among shinigami as they live in a feudal state resembling Japan. (This contrasts hollows who naturally eat their opponents.)

    I only registered to say this, most of the Captains were spared their lives Because they didn't go Bankai in Karakura Town!

    Moderator message by: Arrogance
    Note: Just making a note here to explain that this threads topic has been expanded a bit. While also being able to discuss MacLeodoftheClan's theory, anyone can post their general thoughts, ideas, and theories on why Captains may hold back on their bankais and have yet to use them in combat. Many people have different opinions and ideas on why they have yet to be used so I thought opening this thread up for overall discussion on the matter would be fitting. I hope you enjoy this topic and I'm looking forward to what people have to say.
    Last edited by Arrogance; September 04, 2010 at 03:58 PM. Reason: expanding thread topic

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ryanzokuken's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    the difference is that all of creation is at threat if Aizen is to succeed. this isn't just a battle in a war for land or profits.

    if he isn't stopped, all is fucked.

    so what if you die because you went bankai and then so did he??
    if you don't, and he beats you anyways, and succeeds, all is forfeit and you'll probably die anyways, or worse.

    better to throw everything you've got at him and do everything possible to stop him. if you die in trying, it's better than not trying and dying anyways.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    Yeah, there's no logical reason why they shouldn't have gone bankai. They obviously didn't do it for plot reasons. Now that Ichigo has surpassed them all, the only way for them to even be relevant is for them to power up quite a bit in the future. Kubo will probably give the remaining captains who've yet to reveal their bankais (Isshin, Retsu, Juushirou, Shunsui, Love, Rose, Shinji, Kensei, Kisuke, Yoruichi) some pretty crazy abilities. We can already tell from their shikai's that their bankais will have some nasty traits. Take Shunsui and his games for instance, or Rose and his music spells.

    Who knows what'll become of the captains who've already shown theirs though. I'm pretty sure that Yammi will be Byakuya, Mayuri, and Kenpachi's final battle in bleach. Soi Fon and Sajin are probably done fighting too. Who knows about Toushirou; since he's a fan favorite he may get another fight.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; September 02, 2010 at 03:55 PM.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner MacLeodoftheClan's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    I gave you the logic. It was exactly a fight over fiefdom. Aizen isn't AKU. He didn't threaten 'all existence as we know it' with his rise to power he only threatened Sovereignty. In this type of fight noone needs to lose their life.

    And as is amply stated by every single Captain in Bleach (in one way or another) being dragged into using their Bankai in a fight is an act that warrants no mercy...
    Last edited by MacLeodoftheClan; September 02, 2010 at 04:08 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    MacLeodoftheClan, the reason you stated is interesting but not thaaaat obvious ^^"

    If the captains went Bankai and still were defeated by Aizen, that would make them look even more weak and pathetic. Kubo was planning for Ichigo to be the one who will defeat Aizen since he's the main character (the hero is always the one who beats the final boss), and so the captains couldn't win against Aizen because of plot choices.
    But still, we can assume that Aizen didn't let them and the time to perform their Bankais and defeated them before they could try. After all speed also is a significant factor in battle.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: The Obvious And Not So Obvious Reasons Why Captains Don't Go Bankai And Survive Fights

    I posted this. or something similar on a different thread but i don't really get what everyone is talking about with them not going Bankai.
    1st - Powers were sealed before he could do anything
    2nd - Bankai
    7th - Bankai
    8th - Prepared to do Bankai, fight cut short by KS
    10th - Bankai
    13th - Taken out when he started to fight seriously right away.
    Vizards (i'll go with mask description since i'm bad with the names)
    Rhino - Cut in half at start of fight (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
    Knight - Cut down right away before fight could really start (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
    Bird - fight interrupted, then cut down right away.
    ogre - fight interrupted, then cut down right away
    voodoo - Doesn't used sword, to injured from 2nd espada to fight (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
    bee - doesn't use sword apparently, one hit KO (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
    Hockey - Bankai
    Egyptian- fight interrupted repeatably, cut down right away

    Fact is none of them knew what Aizen had up his sleeve. He has always hidden power from them and used different techniques to grow more powerful. While Aizen already knew all of their Shikai and probably Bankais. Rushing into the fight without knowing what they were truly up against was the same thing that got several swords stabbed into Momo. Bankai have always been described as very hard to wield and master and even after all of that, can only last a short time because of the massive power requirements. So rushing in against a enemy with an attack that might only work once and hoping that you are actually attacking the enemy and not an illusion isn't a workable plan. The only strategy that would work was to chew up time until the head commander was ready to nuke the whole place, illusions be damned. And even Aizen admits it would have worked if it wasn't for him planning ahead with Wonderweiss.


    Quote Originally Posted by hajialibaig View Post
    I have no idea which captains are assigned to each division (I didn't memorize them) and have no idea of which mask belongs to whom (based on your descriptions such as bird, bee, hockey, ogre)

    ..lol..use names!
    Ok, i'll give it a crack.
    1st Shigekuni Yamamoto
    2nd Soifon
    7th Sajin Komamura
    8th Shunsui Kyōraku
    10th Tōshirō Hitsugaya
    13th Jūshirō Ukitake

    Rhino - Hiyori
    Knight - Lisa
    Bird - Rose
    ogre - Love
    voodoo - Hachi
    bee - Mashiro
    Hockey - Kensei
    Egyptian- Shinji
    Last edited by Tsukisama; September 04, 2010 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    The reason why the captains didn't go Bankai to fight Aizen is because there was no point, no hope in defeating him. Ichigo and possibly his father are the only power houses that have not seen Aizen's release, and the only captain capable of defeating Aizen was the captain commander, so basically the squad captains just came to take out the small fry so the captain commander could take care of Aizen. The captain commander appears to have been Aizen's only true threat, before sun god Ichigo came into the picture.

    It's that simple.

    But your historical comparison is pretty good.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member niblack89's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    I was the stupidest move kubo has ever made. Every last one of them seriously, seriously underestimated him. The guy has twice as much spiritual energy and a shekai that is haxed. When he goes bankai his ability will increase. When the vizards started to go down why didn't they use bankai.

    Recession hit us all hard

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    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Arrogance's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    Overall I think there is an interesting point to this. I don't think this idea justifies everything, I also figure that characters and their personalities along with plot also hold them back from using bankai. But at the same time we can definately see that there is an honor code to combat in the bleach universe. For example the courtesy to learns one name, the opponents like to start off small to gradually learn their opponents power instead of going right in for the kill, many seem to enjoy fighting so they take thing slow to make the most of it, and then the big one is the remembrance of fallen comrades and even enemies. With that, even though they are in war, there seems to be a reflection of an honor system or at least some system of combat in general where there are "unwritten rules". That combined with situational moments of bleach in which bankai may not be appropriate and the fact that they are the last reserve of a captain and his secret weapon is enough reason to why we don't see a bankai in every signe fight because the story of bleach needs to last the characters need to have secret weapons or hidden techniques in their arsenal. So overall there are times you wish people would go bankai but I also see many instances where I accept and understand why a character does not go bankai and move on with my life and bleach.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Magnus's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    Quote Originally Posted by niblack89 View Post
    When the vizards started to go down why didn't they use bankai.
    Like I said, couldn't it be simply because they were KO before they could try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogance
    So overall there are times you wish people would go bankai but I also see many instances where I accept and understand why a character does not go bankai and move on with my life and bleach.
    This seriously needs to be more applied.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    I think the main reason the captains did not go bankai against aizen was that they were teaming up on the guy. Even hitsugaya did not use the full might of it, he used the manageable version which is really not that much stronger than a shikai. If the captains had gone bankai, they would have had their teammates caught up in it.

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    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    I agree that bankai's have not been shown for plot purposes but in not for the nefarious reasons assumed. Firstly, Kubo needs to leave something for the future. Instead of showing his entire hand in one arc, which presumably is not the finale of the series, he has left something for fans to look forward to and speculate about. Second, he would have made Aizen look even more over powered before he merged with the hogyouku. Aizen would have either defeated an army of bankai wielding captains using nothing but his shikai, or his bankai would have been revealed to early. The current fight is better for the fact that we do not know all of Aizen's abilities, if we already knew his bankai that would take some of the surprise out of the fight with Ichigo.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacLeodoftheClan View Post
    I gave you the logic. It was exactly a fight over fiefdom. Aizen isn't AKU. He didn't threaten 'all existence as we know it' with his rise to power he only threatened Sovereignty. In this type of fight noone needs to lose their life.

    And as is amply stated by every single Captain in Bleach (in one way or another) being dragged into using their Bankai in a fight is an act that warrants no mercy...
    He is threatening existence. The immediate threat is not threatening the sovereignty of the king but annihilating Karakura Town and all who live there. The Real Karakura was moved to Soul Society for that very reason, that is what Ichigo is fighting for right now. When Yama explained Aizen's plans way back when he clearly stated that the threat to the Kings realm is not the immediate concern, the threat to Karakura is.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    Quote Quote:
    He is threatening existence. The immediate threat is not threatening the sovereignty of the king but annihilating Karakura Town and all who live there. The Real Karakura was moved to Soul Society for that very reason, that is what Ichigo is fighting for right now. When Yama explained Aizen's plans way back when he clearly stated that the threat to the Kings realm is not the immediate concern, the threat to Karakura is.
    I am not sure why but I get the impression that while protecting karakura town and every live there is important, protecting the king would be something of even greater importance. The king has a number of duties and perhaps qualities that make him a king and for whatever reason aizen is after the guy. If the king is truly a divine being, then his life is perhaps worth more than that of hundreds of thousands of people. Lets also remember that the main function of the gotei 13 is not just the fight against evil and whatnot but rather to protect the king.

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    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Arrogance's Avatar
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    Re: The OBVIOUS reason why Captains don't go Bankai, and usually live...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    I agree that bankai's have not been shown for plot purposes but in not for the nefarious reasons assumed. Firstly, Kubo needs to leave something for the future. Instead of showing his entire hand in one arc, which presumably is not the finale of the series, he has left something for fans to look forward to and speculate about. Second, he would have made Aizen look even more over powered before he merged with the hogyouku. Aizen would have either defeated an army of bankai wielding captains using nothing but his shikai, or his bankai would have been revealed to early. The current fight is better for the fact that we do not know all of Aizen's abilities, if we already knew his bankai that would take some of the surprise out of the fight with Ichigo.



    He is threatening existence. The immediate threat is not threatening the sovereignty of the king but annihilating Karakura Town and all who live there. The Real Karakura was moved to Soul Society for that very reason, that is what Ichigo is fighting for right now. When Yama explained Aizen's plans way back when he clearly stated that the threat to the Kings realm is not the immediate concern, the threat to Karakura is.
    Yes plot really is a major aspect to it all because Kubo needs content down the road. I like your very practical example. You figure, at least for now, Aizen is the main villain of bleach and thus the main character must fight and defeat him. So for one that gives a few reasons why everyone else could not go bankai against him. As you said that Aizen would be a lot more overpowered if he defeated everyone wielding bankais and he would have to defeat them all to leave room for Ichigo to be the final one he faces. Also if Aizen defeats everyone with bankais then that means Ichigo would need an EVEN MORE INSANE power up and many more people would be more pissed off to see that. Also if everyone went bankai and then end up defeating Aizen because it was the "smart thing to do" then the story of bleach would be a mess because Ichigo couldn't face the main villain. In the end the argument for the sake of plot is circular and reinforces itself in that the fight between Aizen and Ichigo needs to be established and that is just not possible of everyone goes bankai against Aizen trying to take him out.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member SuperShuter's Avatar
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    Re: The Obvious And Not So Obvious Reasons Why Captains Don't Go Bankai And Survive Fights

    Tite just trolled us really. If he released all the captains bankai there would be no neeed for them. even in death situation kubo kept em' alive so they can troll some more espada or wat not.

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