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Clearly if you and your opponent both have Bankai, you wouldn't turn yours on because your opponent can do likewise. If he's outmatched you so far it is likely to remain the case post-Bankai.
In feudal japan when opposing armies of samurai were (roughly) evenly matched their generals would walk up and duel first and the result of this fight would determine how their armies would react. A draw would mean both of their armies would walk off. Its a ritual designed to preserve lives.
Shikai tests the combatants' mettle and in that mode it is also possible to win or a lose a fight without the imposition of losing/taking a life which Bankai brings.
This must be the traditionally accepted way of fighting among shinigami as they live in a feudal state resembling Japan. (This contrasts hollows who naturally eat their opponents.)
I only registered to say this, most of the Captains were spared their lives Because they didn't go Bankai in Karakura Town!
Moderator message by: ArroganceNote: Just making a note here to explain that this threads topic has been expanded a bit. While also being able to discuss MacLeodoftheClan's theory, anyone can post their general thoughts, ideas, and theories on why Captains may hold back on their bankais and have yet to use them in combat. Many people have different opinions and ideas on why they have yet to be used so I thought opening this thread up for overall discussion on the matter would be fitting. I hope you enjoy this topic and I'm looking forward to what people have to say.
Last edited by Arrogance; September 04, 2010 at 03:58 PM. Reason: expanding thread topic
the difference is that all of creation is at threat if Aizen is to succeed. this isn't just a battle in a war for land or profits.
if he isn't stopped, all is fucked.
so what if you die because you went bankai and then so did he??
if you don't, and he beats you anyways, and succeeds, all is forfeit and you'll probably die anyways, or worse.
better to throw everything you've got at him and do everything possible to stop him. if you die in trying, it's better than not trying and dying anyways.
Yeah, there's no logical reason why they shouldn't have gone bankai. They obviously didn't do it for plot reasons. Now that Ichigo has surpassed them all, the only way for them to even be relevant is for them to power up quite a bit in the future. Kubo will probably give the remaining captains who've yet to reveal their bankais (Isshin, Retsu, Juushirou, Shunsui, Love, Rose, Shinji, Kensei, Kisuke, Yoruichi) some pretty crazy abilities. We can already tell from their shikai's that their bankais will have some nasty traits. Take Shunsui and his games for instance, or Rose and his music spells.
Who knows what'll become of the captains who've already shown theirs though. I'm pretty sure that Yammi will be Byakuya, Mayuri, and Kenpachi's final battle in bleach. Soi Fon and Sajin are probably done fighting too. Who knows about Toushirou; since he's a fan favorite he may get another fight.
Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; September 02, 2010 at 03:55 PM.
I gave you the logic. It was exactly a fight over fiefdom. Aizen isn't AKU. He didn't threaten 'all existence as we know it' with his rise to power he only threatened Sovereignty. In this type of fight noone needs to lose their life.
And as is amply stated by every single Captain in Bleach (in one way or another) being dragged into using their Bankai in a fight is an act that warrants no mercy...
Last edited by MacLeodoftheClan; September 02, 2010 at 04:08 PM.
MacLeodoftheClan, the reason you stated is interesting but not thaaaat obvious ^^"
If the captains went Bankai and still were defeated by Aizen, that would make them look even more weak and pathetic. Kubo was planning for Ichigo to be the one who will defeat Aizen since he's the main character (the hero is always the one who beats the final boss), and so the captains couldn't win against Aizen because of plot choices.
But still, we can assume that Aizen didn't let them and the time to perform their Bankais and defeated them before they could try. After all speed also is a significant factor in battle.
I posted this. or something similar on a different thread but i don't really get what everyone is talking about with them not going Bankai.
1st - Powers were sealed before he could do anything
2nd - Bankai
7th - Bankai
8th - Prepared to do Bankai, fight cut short by KS
10th - Bankai
13th - Taken out when he started to fight seriously right away.
Vizards (i'll go with mask description since i'm bad with the names)
Rhino - Cut in half at start of fight (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
Knight - Cut down right away before fight could really start (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
Bird - fight interrupted, then cut down right away.
ogre - fight interrupted, then cut down right away
voodoo - Doesn't used sword, to injured from 2nd espada to fight (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
bee - doesn't use sword apparently, one hit KO (Lieutenant level, may not have bankai)
Hockey - Bankai
Egyptian- fight interrupted repeatably, cut down right away
Fact is none of them knew what Aizen had up his sleeve. He has always hidden power from them and used different techniques to grow more powerful. While Aizen already knew all of their Shikai and probably Bankais. Rushing into the fight without knowing what they were truly up against was the same thing that got several swords stabbed into Momo. Bankai have always been described as very hard to wield and master and even after all of that, can only last a short time because of the massive power requirements. So rushing in against a enemy with an attack that might only work once and hoping that you are actually attacking the enemy and not an illusion isn't a workable plan. The only strategy that would work was to chew up time until the head commander was ready to nuke the whole place, illusions be damned. And even Aizen admits it would have worked if it wasn't for him planning ahead with Wonderweiss.
1st Shigekuni Yamamoto
7th Sajin Komamura
8th Shunsui Kyōraku
10th Tōshirō Hitsugaya
13th Jūshirō Ukitake
Rhino - Hiyori
Knight - Lisa
Bird - Rose
ogre - Love
voodoo - Hachi
bee - Mashiro
Hockey - Kensei
Last edited by Tsukisama; September 04, 2010 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
The reason why the captains didn't go Bankai to fight Aizen is because there was no point, no hope in defeating him. Ichigo and possibly his father are the only power houses that have not seen Aizen's release, and the only captain capable of defeating Aizen was the captain commander, so basically the squad captains just came to take out the small fry so the captain commander could take care of Aizen. The captain commander appears to have been Aizen's only true threat, before sun god Ichigo came into the picture.
It's that simple.
But your historical comparison is pretty good.
I was the stupidest move kubo has ever made. Every last one of them seriously, seriously underestimated him. The guy has twice as much spiritual energy and a shekai that is haxed. When he goes bankai his ability will increase. When the vizards started to go down why didn't they use bankai.
Overall I think there is an interesting point to this. I don't think this idea justifies everything, I also figure that characters and their personalities along with plot also hold them back from using bankai. But at the same time we can definately see that there is an honor code to combat in the bleach universe. For example the courtesy to learns one name, the opponents like to start off small to gradually learn their opponents power instead of going right in for the kill, many seem to enjoy fighting so they take thing slow to make the most of it, and then the big one is the remembrance of fallen comrades and even enemies. With that, even though they are in war, there seems to be a reflection of an honor system or at least some system of combat in general where there are "unwritten rules". That combined with situational moments of bleach in which bankai may not be appropriate and the fact that they are the last reserve of a captain and his secret weapon is enough reason to why we don't see a bankai in every signe fight because the story of bleach needs to last the characters need to have secret weapons or hidden techniques in their arsenal. So overall there are times you wish people would go bankai but I also see many instances where I accept and understand why a character does not go bankai and move on with my life and bleach.
I think the main reason the captains did not go bankai against aizen was that they were teaming up on the guy. Even hitsugaya did not use the full might of it, he used the manageable version which is really not that much stronger than a shikai. If the captains had gone bankai, they would have had their teammates caught up in it.
I agree that bankai's have not been shown for plot purposes but in not for the nefarious reasons assumed. Firstly, Kubo needs to leave something for the future. Instead of showing his entire hand in one arc, which presumably is not the finale of the series, he has left something for fans to look forward to and speculate about. Second, he would have made Aizen look even more over powered before he merged with the hogyouku. Aizen would have either defeated an army of bankai wielding captains using nothing but his shikai, or his bankai would have been revealed to early. The current fight is better for the fact that we do not know all of Aizen's abilities, if we already knew his bankai that would take some of the surprise out of the fight with Ichigo.
I am not sure why but I get the impression that while protecting karakura town and every live there is important, protecting the king would be something of even greater importance. The king has a number of duties and perhaps qualities that make him a king and for whatever reason aizen is after the guy. If the king is truly a divine being, then his life is perhaps worth more than that of hundreds of thousands of people. Lets also remember that the main function of the gotei 13 is not just the fight against evil and whatnot but rather to protect the king.Quote:
Tite just trolled us really. If he released all the captains bankai there would be no neeed for them. even in death situation kubo kept em' alive so they can troll some more espada or wat not.