Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 600 (2) , Gintama 514 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 48

Thread: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

  1. #16
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Smit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    135
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Here is my outlandish theory: Ichigo lost his shinigami powers. But it was never stated that he also lost his immense reiatsu. So he will return to being a human. And what humans with spiritually awareness do we know? QUINCY. Ichigo will become a Quincy.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Franckie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    2,221
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    FGT is originally Zangetsu's technique, though Shirosaki should have learned it when Ichigo did (as he did in the case with Bankai).

    Kubo can take it any number of ways in restoring Ichigo's shinigami abilities. Orihime and/or the Hogyoku can restore his Shinigami powers, or Ichigo uses the method that Urahara used to restore Isshin's powers (though this method would probably weaken Ichigo as it did Isshin). Ichigo might also still retain his hollow powers and still have access to Shinigami abilities. Shirosaki and Zangetsu are two sides of the coin, but they can operate independently of each other. If Shirosaki were to become the sole source of Ichigo's spiritual power, Ichigo would still be a force to be wreckoned with, but even low Captain-class fighters would probably give him some trouble.

  3. #18
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,988
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Perhaps the orb will have to do something with that? Just because aizen was sealed does not mean the orb was sealed too nor that it was destroyed. In that sense, it is very possible ichigo will be exposed to it soon. Heck, perhaps just the few moments where he was near it and aizen was not its master were enough to bring back ichigo's power (eventually). If you think about it, perhaps it was also the orb which made ishin's power return. Rukia was in ichigo's house for quite a while and just as the orb brought forth chad's and orihime's powers it is also possible it made ishin gain his powers back. it could easily be another of the orb miracles.

  4. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Lord.Strife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Country
    Australia
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    443
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    I am preety sure ichigo is a saiyan. After he recovers he will find that his powers have become stronger since he was quite damaged during the battle.
    Last edited by Lord.Strife; September 24, 2010 at 08:04 AM.

  5. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Aikidoka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Country
    United States
    Age
    22
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    750
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quoting from my post in the discussion topic two weeks ago:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikidoka View Post
    To people angry about Ichigo losing his Shinigami powers:

    1) When Ichigo is training in the Dangai, Isshin remarks that Zangetsu won't give the FGT up without a fight: "after all, that's how my Engetsu was". This implies that Isshin has also achieved FGT, which is why he knows the process.

    2) This further implies that Isshin would have lost his Shinigami powers as a result of that use (if we take everything about the FGT to be the same with Zangetsu as with Engetsu), which makes sense since Isshin had no Shinigami powers at the start of the series.

    3) Urahara asked Isshin after his Shinigami debut how Isshin felt about taking Shinigami form "after abandoning it twenty years ago". While we could take this to mean Isshin actively decided to stop for the purpose of starting a family or whatever, I think that considering the info about FGT, it's more likely that Isshin chose to use FGT for some reason, and therefore "abandoned" Shinigami form.

    4) If we assume all this to be true, then we know that Isshin somehow got his Shinigami powers back...even though he gave up his powers, supposedly permanently.

    5) If Isshin used FGT, and if Isshin got his powers back, then we can assume that Ichigo can get his powers back too. The only question is, how long will it take? Twenty years, like it took Isshin? Or maybe, because of Ichigo's super-growth, less time?
    I know some people have already come up with the same theory in this topic, but most people seem to think a timeskip is necessary for this. I think it could still happen without much of a timeskip, what with Ichigo's extraordinary growth (which was supposed to be what made him special among other characters). In other words, what took Isshin ~20 years to get back could take Ichigo much, much less.

  6. #21
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    31
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Or maybe ichigo has to go through the whole chain cutting thing all over again XD..

    But seriously, If using this FGT loses shinigami powers.. shouldnt he have only hollow powers left?

  7. #22
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,988
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    ^Nope. Zangetsu and shirosaki are one being. That means zangetsu and shirosaki are esentially both ichigo's hollow and shinigami powers. Within ichigo, there is no distinction between them.

  8. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakk707 View Post
    Yup, no matter how much he have done for the sake of pretty much everybody after losing his Shinigami powers he will just be a human...half-hollow...Hollow, the enemies of all Shinigami, therefore Ichigo will be seen as a potential foe, a menace, an anomaly that must be taken care of.

    Another thing that could come out of this is Ichigo finally developing his Hollow abbilities. As a Vizard he has been using them just to enhance his Shinigami abbilities, rejecting his Hollow powers and restricting them to a supporting role fearing his inner Hollow may take over if he were to fully embrace them. But now, with his new unshakeable attitude and his shinigami powers out of the way he will be able to finally use his Hollow powers properly (I'm expecting a new spiritual form and Ichigo using Cero, Bala, Sonido, Hierro and maybe High-speed regeneration 9_9)
    SS wouldn't dare touching Ichigo, how much SS would like to get rid of a human with hollow powers they can't because Ichigo has to many high ranking friends: being the vaizards, Urahara and co. and Isshin with fully recovered powers and lets not start of the gotei 13 themselves, since the gotei 13 lacks a central 46 its up to yama and the captains to kill ichigo while some captains and yama might decide to kill him many other will oppose this (ukitake, shunsui for starters and probably kenpachi and unohana aswell).

    Arrancar/hollow abilities are limited for vaizards like arrancars cant use kidou. Hierro is a hollow only ability since they dont use swords but their body to attack, high speed generation same story.

  9. #24
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    146
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Croz View Post

    I think that isshin lost his powers by using the FGT for some reason, and recovered them the same way ichigo's friends on karakura had their occult powers awaken: because of ichigo's reiatsu pressure.
    I thought this was retconned/ confirmed by aizen to be caused by the hougyoku in rukia? Rather than ichigo or his spiritual pressure. Infact, I know he said it.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-50820-...apter-401.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-50820-...apter-401.html

  10. #25
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    Chile
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    72
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    perhaps inoue shall restore ichigo`s powers by turning "his" time back

  11. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Franckie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    2,221
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    ^Nope. Zangetsu and shirosaki are one being. That means zangetsu and shirosaki are esentially both ichigo's hollow and shinigami powers. Within ichigo, there is no distinction between them.
    Zangetsu and Shirosaki are treated as two sides of the same coin and as two separate entities. Some differences do exist between them. Bankai, GT, and FGT are Zangetsu's techniques. The Black Getsuga, however, is Shirosaki's technique and he only learned Bankai when Ichigo did. Ichigo also draws power from them in different means. Ichigo draws power from Zangetsu - the representation of Ichigo's shinigami powers - via his sword. Ichigo draws power from Shirosaki - the representation of his hollow powers - via his mask though.

  12. #27
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    Chile
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    72
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Every soul is born by itself, in a potentially deadly environment. In order to survive, it needs strenght, and so, said strenght is born from Fission. The two (and perhaps more), not necesarily evenly splitted parts grow one next to other, semi-independentely, and capable of sharing and drawing energy from the other. But even so, they are still separated, and there is a limit to what a part can do by itself. A part knows this, and knows he true, original form it should have, while the other one is not aware of that, and thinks that the current state is the common one. Once the original form or state of being is remembered, deducted, acknowledged, or whatever, the parts participate in a phenomenon of Fusion, where they resonate one with the other, generating even more energy from the adquired through fission. But of course, it is a unstable, and explosive energy, which is depleted even more once the true form of aid fusion is unleashed (like a nuke), and besides, now that the soul is back to the complemented form, it is driven back to the original form, before the energy or strength for survival was needed.

    However, do not fear, as survival is a constant competition, and it might get fragmented again, and even if the soul conciously forgets that both parts are one, AGAIN, and even if the presence of the more passive part has dissapeared, it unconciously knows better, that the there is a original state to recover, and that probably, there is no presence of the passive part, because it is already fused, and once that is acknowledgeded, the strenght should return.

    There are abnormal cases of soul fragmentation, like hollow, arrancar, and vizard, in which the soul is further fragmented or altered; the hollow feel empty, and the passive part of the soul losses most of its own conscience, and becomes, instead of a sword, a mask. The hollow is trapped behind the mask, as the last will of the passive part of the soul was tom protect the soul from everything, even from the world. The mask is scarred because of the pain that forced the fragmentation

    The arrancar manage to rip the mask, and transfor it in a sword, but it is now nothing more than instinct, because the conciousness has transfered to the deepest depths of the arrancar soul, and being former hollows, they simply can't take notice that their souls have been slightly filled

    Vizard have it different, as the passive part of the soul has been fragmented again, this time in itself, and in a personification of the hatred and pain, represented in the mask. Once the pain is overcome, then there is a chance to reunite with the passive part of the soul.

    Humans don't experiment this, simply because they still have a body different to spiritual particles. But they have the potential advantage of not needing the fragmentation, and being more instinctively aware of the original state of the soul.

    Trying to evolve by focusing on trascending the other so called incompatible species, will only enhance one part of the soul. True evolution or trascendance comes from overcoming the internal barriers. And despite being potentially cyclical, its is through making the same mistakes over and over that people learns, and eventually evolves.

    So, with this I'm saying that Ichigo should recover his powers, and probably being able to use Saigo Getsuga Tenshou again. Isshin will lear from Ichigo that Engetsu has not dissapeared, but it is buried inside himself, and once that has been acknowledged, FGT should be avaiable for him too. Finally, Aizen might also lear from this, and realize that his solitude was a complete mistake, as Kyoka Suigetsu has always been with him, allowing Aizen not to trascend, but to at least recover his only true companion, who he inadvertily rejected during his final moments before being sealed, thinking that Ichigo did the same, while the case was:

    It is not that he did not need a Zanpakutoh anymore, but his zanpakutoh did not needed to be in that form anymore, it coul finally fuse with its counterpart, and be whole again. And why not, perhaps truly trascending might be possible for him. Of course, all of this would require a new villain, perhaps the Soul King who has regarded that the "Way things are are a mistake because of the sentient beings that exist" Also, Aizen would have to lose Hougyoku to balance things with the potential trascendance.

    What do you all think, please tell me

  13. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  14. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,066
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Youve certainly put some thought into that. But there are aspects of your diatribe which are confusin.

    Correct me if im mistaken but What I gathered was :

    You think that zangetsu isnt really gone, its just that the soul has fractured from the FGT and thus reverted to a state where all the spirit power is gone, zangetsu isnt aware of ichigo, and ichigo isnt aware of zangetsu. in this state they can recover, and once ichigo heals from the battle physically, emotionally, spiritually. he will seek out zangetsu, and they will hear each other again. once that happens, he can get his powers back, which means both the hollow and shinigami halfs that are buried and sleeping within him.?!


    or did i miss the mark? also in the beginning you misspelled strength. lol.


    Be proud, that after receiving my blade you still retain the shape of a human.

  15. #29
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    Chile
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    72
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    Youve certainly put some thought into that. But there are aspects of your diatribe which are confusin.

    Correct me if im mistaken but What I gathered was :

    You think that zangetsu isnt really gone, its just that the soul has fractured from the FGT and thus reverted to a state where all the spirit power is gone, zangetsu isnt aware of ichigo, and ichigo isnt aware of zangetsu. in this state they can recover, and once ichigo heals from the battle physically, emotionally, spiritually. he will seek out zangetsu, and they will hear each other again. once that happens, he can get his powers back, which means both the hollow and shinigami halfs that are buried and sleeping within him.?!


    or did i miss the mark? also in the beginning you misspelled strength. lol.
    Regarding the misspelling, it is just that english is not my native language.

    Regarding the theme of my post, What I'm trying to say is that there is no "REAL" or "SUBSTANCIAL" difference between the different races of spirit beings. About your question, what I'm saying is that once Ichigo accepted his own sword in his inner world, you could say that there is no more zanpakutoh, nor shinigami, nor hollow, just one being. And the conciousnesses of Zangetsu and Ogichi are not sleeping, they merged with Ichigo, but Ichigo, and most of the Shinigami are so "accostumed" to having a separate entity with them, they consider that if said entity is gone, there is no more power. I think that Isshin recovered his powers, but because of that mental barrier, he thinks that his zanpakutoh is just a lifeless tool which retains the ability, but not the spirit, when the spirit is always with him. Ichigo will probably recover his powers the same way as Isshin, just faster, and will find himself with the same issue of "thinking" that Zangetsu is gone, and only the ability of his zanpakutoh remains, which would explain why Isshin did not use shikai, simply because he still "thinks" that shikai is a "REAL" concept, when it is nothing more than a failed approach to reach the original state zanpakutoh and shinigami have. The physical form of said state is the Sword merged with the hand, just like Aizen said. This might also imply that Tensa Zangetsu was never a bankai in the sense of the word that Byakuya has, but a more succesful approach to the original state, while the sealed and shikai forms are result of the chaotic state Ichigo had at first.

    Anyway, once Ichigo finds himself on the need of recovering his powers, he will, but wil mistakenly think that zangetsu is gone. Once Ichigo becomes aware that Zangetsu and himself have merged, that his sword does not answer to him because the spirit of the sword is no longer there, and that he has never been left alone, THEN Ichigo will go back to the Trascended state he reached through the training in Dangai.

    Let me put it this way. The sealed form is the best state the zanpakutoh can be in order to merge with the wielder. Shikai and Bankai are the independent approach that the swords take to unleash the whole power, but by being independent, it means that the wielder does not "release" himself. In Ichigo's case, his sealed form was innappropiate for that purpose, and the same his shikai. Against any other example, his bankai, being the "simplest" form possible, was the best form to merge with Ichigo, and the Final Getsuga Tenshou is what to others, would be both the Shinigami and the Zanpakutoh, as one, reaching a true "Bankai" . To summarize: Zanpakutoh in sealed, or more specifically, in its "simplest" form, plus shinigami, who can't evolve by itself

    I hope I made things more clear to you.

  16. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  17. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Country
    United Nations
    Age
    35
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,066
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
    Regarding the misspelling, it is just that english is not my native language.

    Regarding the theme of my post, What I'm trying to say is that there is no "REAL" or "SUBSTANCIAL" difference between the different races of spirit beings. About your question, what I'm saying is that once Ichigo accepted his own sword in his inner world, you could say that there is no more zanpakutoh, nor shinigami, nor hollow, just one being. And the conciousnesses of Zangetsu and Ogichi are not sleeping, they merged with Ichigo, but Ichigo, and most of the Shinigami are so "accostumed" to having a separate entity with them, they consider that if said entity is gone, there is no more power. I think that Isshin recovered his powers, but because of that mental barrier, he thinks that his zanpakutoh is just a lifeless tool which retains the ability, but not the spirit, when the spirit is always with him. Ichigo will probably recover his powers the same way as Isshin, just faster, and will find himself with the same issue of "thinking" that Zangetsu is gone, and only the ability of his zanpakutoh remains, which would explain why Isshin did not use shikai, simply because he still "thinks" that shikai is a "REAL" concept, when it is nothing more than a failed approach to reach the original state zanpakutoh and shinigami have. The physical form of said state is the Sword merged with the hand, just like Aizen said. This might also imply that Tensa Zangetsu was never a bankai in the sense of the word that Byakuya has, but a more succesful approach to the original state, while the sealed and shikai forms are result of the chaotic state Ichigo had at first.

    Anyway, once Ichigo finds himself on the need of recovering his powers, he will, but wil mistakenly think that zangetsu is gone. Once Ichigo becomes aware that Zangetsu and himself have merged, that his sword does not answer to him because the spirit of the sword is no longer there, and that he has never been left alone, THEN Ichigo will go back to the Trascended state he reached through the training in Dangai.

    Let me put it this way. The sealed form is the best state the zanpakutoh can be in order to merge with the wielder. Shikai and Bankai are the independent approach that the swords take to unleash the whole power, but by being independent, it means that the wielder does not "release" himself. In Ichigo's case, his sealed form was innappropiate for that purpose, and the same his shikai. Against any other example, his bankai, being the "simplest" form possible, was the best form to merge with Ichigo, and the Final Getsuga Tenshou is what to others, would be both the Shinigami and the Zanpakutoh, as one, reaching a true "Bankai" . To summarize: Zanpakutoh in sealed, or more specifically, in its "simplest" form, plus shinigami, who can't evolve by itself

    I hope I made things more clear to you.
    nope.. not really any clearer, lets pull this apart.. assuming i know absolutely nothing. so when you correct my statement below, dotn draw on assumptions you think i already know.

    Ichigo, human spirit. -- zangetsu, inner spirit created at the same time as ichigo. unknown to ichigo until after the incident with rukia, and unable to hear zangetsu until the shattered shaft training with urahara.
    When he was able to hear zangetsu, and draw him from the box.. he obtained shikai... but in his case, as per later chapters, we find out his zanpaktu is a full time released zanpaktou. so ichi has no base form like rukias plain sword, and isshins plain sword and uraharas walking cane sword. instead since its full released all the time, its like his lowest state is shiki and is always released so it looks like a giant meat cleaver of sorts.

    I am of the opinion that both ichigo and zangetsu, draw energy and existance from the same " well of power" if youll excuse that phrase. but are distinct entities within the same body, and are allowed to exisit in the innner world(zangetsu) and outer world(ichigo.)

    Because ichigo is some sort of hybrid, for as yet unfully explained reasons as to why he should be... his inner world is represented by two inner beings, zangetsu, and shirosaki.

    Ok are we in agreeement so far,"? or do you have a different take on the structure of what I just laid out.If we are in agreement so far then I will add this.

    : I agree that ichigo currently does not have access to zangetsu, or shirosaki because of his state of mind. + the fact that he is suffering a mandatory reiatsu reset. that is to say that his spirit power is returning to nothing so that his cycle of growth can begin again. (as to why this must be so I wont say.. but it is happening) now ichigo, free from his power seems to be having an attitude change like he is somehow released from his duty to protect his friends. almost happy to not have any power. but I think this is a mistake, which he will realize once someone he loves is in danger and he is powerless to help.

    All of ichigos original growth up to the FGT was based on the fact that zangetsu lived in ichigos heart, and was a part of him.

    I think zangetsu will be gone until ichigo heals his heart/ state of mind.
    Just because he cannot detect zangetsu doesnt mean zangetsu isnt there. Zangetsu prolly knew this because he said he wouldnt be able to protect ichigo anymore. as if zangetsu, knew that ichigo would be forced to enter a zero level state where all his resolve, all his strength of heart would be gone, and ichigo would no longer hear the voice of zangetsu crying out his name from his inner world.

    Ichigo will need to gain spirit power. according to urahara, this happens close to death. but since ichigo has had a complete zeroing and not just a massive redux, there may be another component to ichigo regaining his spirit power. Perhaps another moment where he needs to sacrafice himself to protect another. even with no power. thus making the sacrafice even more powerfull than the first time with rukia, and thus increasing his total potential more than before. IMO.


    Be proud, that after receiving my blade you still retain the shape of a human.

New Reply
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts